Newbie 2096 | Nathan For You | Endgame

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Nope. Completely agree.

It's almost like it's been a pattern of play.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

It's just dawned on me that there are a few things that haven't been considered anywhere near enough in this game;

1) Scum!BBT has dictated both kills with 0 input from his partner
2) Scum!BBT has managed to drive two wagons on the people who scum read him (despite unvoting both Vasex and Somnus at L-1) and nobody else did anything. It was all BBT.
3) Scum!BBT is so bad that every night phase he says 'Hey, this guy scum reads me so we should kill him'. Like, I'm generally pretty decent as scum which is weird because I'm generally scum read especially by people who have never played with me before.

The game flow has clearly been angled in a way that it sets me up for the ELo elim. Also, a question if I may. Everyone is like 'OMG, BBT killed Spartan because he said he was scum!' Why didn't scum!BBT kill Somnus N1?

[Rad]

Why does scum!Somnus NK whiskey? Shouldn't he have NK'd Bella? He should expect me and whiskey to tunnel vision town!BBT today in a scum!Somnus killing Bella scenario.

Also, a question if I may. Everyone is like 'OMG, BBT killed Spartan because he said he was scum!' Why didn't scum!BBT kill Somnus N1?

I think Spartan was more heavily read as town than Somnus was. From what I remember, only vasex was screaming somnus town.

I guess a BBT somnus scum team makes all points above irrelevant

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't do NKA, it's sketchy at best. What I'm saying is that this game really focused on NKA and yet none of the above ever got discussed.

[Bellaphant]

The two most Town read people got killed. It's not even a nka thing

[Somnus]

Alright. 2nd time through reading Day 3. Gonna post some thoughts as I go along.

Some VCA stuff on any wagon that has gotten to E-1 so far...

Spartan: Whiskey Delta (leftover vote on Jackal), Cheapside, Bellaphant, BlueBloodedToffee (E-1)

Vote Count 1.07

Vasex (5):

Bellaphant, Corwinoid, Rad, Cheapside, BlueBloodedToffee

ELIMINATION

BlueBloodedToffee (2):

Spartan117, Somnus

Rad (1):

Vasex

Somnus (1):

whiskey delta

With 9 alive, it's 5 to eliminate.

Deadline for Day 1 is June 12 at 3:00 AM GMT +8

Deadline Timer:

(expired on 2022-06-12 03:00:00)

Mod Notes:

Nero Cain is now the back-up mod.

Corwin: Rad, Blueblood, Bellaphant (E-1), (Rad unvotes in his first post here after Corwin is put at E-1)

Vote Count 2.05

BlueBloodedToffee (3):

Somnus, Corwinoid, whiskey delta (

E-1

)

Corwinoid (2):

BlueBloodedToffee, Bellaphant

Not Voting (2):

Cheapside, Rad

With 7 alive, it's 4 to eliminate.

Deadline for Day 2 is June 15

Deadline Timer:

(expired on 2022-06-16 14:15:00)

-At this point, Rad puts his vote back on Corwin and invites Cheap to join him in voting for Bella.

-Blueblood says he's down to eliminate Bella as self-preservation.

-Rad asks Whiskey and Somnus if they'll vote for Bella.

-Rad votes for Bella.

-Whiskey unvotes, but we know this was from town so whatever.

-Cheapside puts BlueBlood back at E-1, but again, we know this was from town.

Vote Count 2.08

Somnus (3):

Corwinoid, BlueBloodedToffee, Rad (

E-1

)

BlueBloodedToffee (2):

Somnus, Cheapside

Corwinoid (1):

Bellaphant

Not Voting (1):

whiskey delta

With 7 alive, it's 4 to eliminate.

Deadline for Day 2 is June 15

Deadline Timer:

(expired on 2022-06-16 14:15:00)

mod note:

your mod is back now

-The first 2 votes on this wagon were 3 minutes apart, then Rad pops in 5 hours later for the E-1 vote.

-Bella twice expressed intent to hammer

-Blueblood unvotes.

-Corwin shifts his vote to Rad, apparenty to try and trap Somnus or Bella.

-Corwin shifts his vote back to Somnus and is joined shortly thereafter by BlueBlood.

-Rad unvotes. The wagon shifts over to Cheapside after some thoughts from Whiskey.

-Corwin votes Whiskey with roughly 48 hours until the Day 2 deadline. This vote clearly was never going to go anywhere Day 2.

-In a span of 7 minutes, Cheapside goes from 0 votes on him to 3 (E-1).

-As soon as BlueBlood arrives, expresses intent to hammer, and then hammers shortly thereafter.

Vote Count 2.12

Cheapside (4):

whiskey delta, Rad, Corwinoid, BlueBloodedToffee

ELIMINATION

BlueBloodedToffee (2):

Somnus, Cheapside

Not Voting (1):

Bellaphant

With 7 alive, it's 4 to eliminate.

Deadline for Day 2 is June 15

Deadline Timer:

(expired on 2022-06-16 14:15:00)

mod note:

i'll fix up the game in my free time. sorry for the state of things.

[Somnus]

I'm a little weirded out by the fact that Bella doesn't appear to even be considering the possibility of BlueBlood being mafia in eLo, especially after everything we've seen in this game. Here's the thing: I don't town-read people dependent on whether or not I agree with them. And that's fine. The important question to ask is whether I think that they truly believe what they're saying. It's not secret that I've agreed with Bella on like...virtually nothing in this game. I didn't understand the question about whether I thought the unannounced E-1 was intentional, and I didn't particularly think it was important. And personally, I think the idea of not being able to get a confident read on someone because you were briefly mafia partners with them in 1 game 7 years ago is...really silly, to be kind about it. But it doesn't matter whether I disagree or think it's ridiculous. It's whether I believe that Bella believes that. And I...kind of do?

Like...we already know Bella isn't paired with myself, Rad, or Corwin. She's not gonna slow-roll and drag out this game and showboat. If she's mafia, the only person left she could be paired with barring a really unethical slow-roll is BlueBlood, and I don't see her doing that. Realistically, I wasn't voting here today anyway.

[Somnus]

Something in 1159 bothers me, did I just read this wrong and I'm making something out of nothing

like I did with Vivax?

Wrong game. I know you said you mixed up Spartan and myself early in Day 1, then I noticed a post later on in Day 2 where you mixed up Cheapside and I (don't have it on-hand at the moment), and this is a player from a game that I can't comment on (although I get the similarity between this name and Vasex). Would mafia really make this many mistakes in keeping the players in a game straight? I read someone as town recently for somewhat similar reasons and it's kind of shit to do so. I don't know what to think of these name mix-ups.

[Somnus]

Should say early in Day 2 ^

[Somnus]

We just cleared what 3/25s of scum pairings....

It's actually only 10 pairings. I had to double check, because I've never been in 5P eLo before. Only 3P eLo.

Bella - Somnus

Bella - Rad

Bella - Corwin

Bella - BlueBlood
Somnus - Rad
Somnus - Corwin
Somnus - BlueBlood
Rad - Corwin
Rad - BlueBlood
Corwin - BlueBlood

If I hadn't missed the window to check in while BlueBlood was at E-1, you could strike off two more pairings, making it so that both Bella and Somnus could only be paired with BlueBlood. I didn't though, so it is what it is. Wasn't expecting early votes today.

[Somnus]

Just a quick comment and you can take it or leave it:

I’m the guy who in eLo as scum subscribes to receive e-mail alerts on the gamethread every time there’s a new post, and will sleep with my phone by my ear with the volume turned all the way up so I don’t miss a chance to quick-hammer.

If I’m scum and BBT is town, this game is already over.

Anyway, I really can’t give this the proper look it deserves until much later today. As much as I’d want this game over one way or another, out of respect to everyone who has participated in the game the last 16 days, I at least owe it to them to give everything a proper look. I’m not voting today.

This is 100% truth, by the way.

I was in 3P eLo twice as mafia and ended up being the hammering vote both times. The first time, I hammered half an hour after the first person voted (was occupied for a bit), and the second time, I hammered 4 minutes after the first person voted after 6 and a half days of eLo.

Subscribing to the mafia private thread in those games wouldn't have done me a lot of good since my partner was dead both times. So yes, I set up alerts for the main thread in both of those games. Didn't bother to in this game because -gasp- I have no reason to be on alert for a quick-hammer. Crazy, I know.

[Somnus]

Bella, if scum!BBT, why is town!Bella still alive? This has been troubling me.

People have already touched upon this, but I think you're perfectly aware of why Town!Bella would be brought here.

[Somnus]

Does anyone disagree that BBT was dead town's biggest scum read?

I don't disagree, and normally I wouldn't put an enormous amount of emphasis on it, especially when talking about JUST the 2 night-kills. But literally every dead/confirmed town has been massively scum-reading that slot, and most of them died shortly thereafter (not just from night-kills). For that slot to flip town, it would mean not only that myself, Vasex, Spartan, Cheapside, and Whiskey all misread it, but that all of the damaging town plays from that slot have somehow come from town. Possible? Yes, sure.

[Rad]

Yeah somnus, that's all I'm getting at here. I don't mean to be offensive when I say town deserves to lose if bbt flips green. I mean to say that everyone confirmed town has misread a town!bbt so fuck it, this is town's read, right or wrong.

Seems like a good chance he flips red. I'm not sure what better play there could be for town here.

[Somnus]

Yeah somnus, that's all I'm getting at here. I don't mean to be offensive when I say town deserves to lose if bbt flips green. I mean to say that everyone confirmed town has misread a town!bbt so fuck it, this is town's read, right or wrong.

Seems like a good chance he flips red. I'm not sure what better play there could be for town here.

I get it. I know a couple people didn't like that comment, but I understood the sentiment behind it. Because I know I'm town, I can cross off Somnus/Rad and Somnus/Corwin as pairings as well. So literally the only pairing that wouldn't have BlueBlood in it would be Rad and Corwin. And I'm afraid I'm not going to get to going through those two ISOs tonight.

[Somnus]

As you can see by such stupid mistakes as "And I'm afraid I'm not going to get to going through those two ISOs tonight", I clearly wouldn't be able to mentally handle doing so tonight.

[Bellaphant]

Ahaha I multiplied 5*5 but that's not how probability works.

@somnus, trust me, I am considering it more today than I was yesterday. A lot. I've also decided you could be town, which is also a surprise.

[Rad]

Hey somnus, let me know when you're around. I got a quick fire question for you if you would humor me.

[Rad]

A few questions actually. Let me know when you can be available. I want you to answer them quickly and without much thought. They're not trick questions, but the answers are important to me.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I don't disagree, and normally I wouldn't put an enormous amount of emphasis on it, especially when talking about JUST the 2 night-kills. But literally every dead/confirmed town has been massively scum-reading that slot, and most of them died shortly thereafter (not just from night-kills). For that slot to flip town, it would mean not only that myself, Vasex, Spartan, Cheapside, and Whiskey all misread it, but that all of the damaging town plays from that slot have somehow come from town. Possible? Yes, sure.

This is what my earlier post referred to. Again, I can't elim anyone by myself. For people scum reading me to be elimmed, they needed 5 and 4 votes respectively. So acting like 'They died because they scum read BBT' makes no sense at all.

I also refer to my earlier points - which nobody replied to.

a) Scum!BBT completely dictated NKs and my partner had literally 0 input.
b) Scum!BBT is so bad that he literally just kills whoever scum reads him.
c) Scum!BBT literally unvoted two players at L-1 because...??? I would love for anyone to finish this sentence for me.
d) Scum!BBT did all of the above AND LEFT SOMNUS ALIVE.

Somebody make that make sense.

@somnus, trust me, I am considering it more today than I was yesterday. A lot. I've also decided you could be town, which is also a surprise.

Talk to me about this.

[Rad]

I don't disagree, and normally I wouldn't put an enormous amount of emphasis on it, especially when talking about JUST the 2 night-kills. But literally every dead/confirmed town has been massively scum-reading that slot, and most of them died shortly thereafter (not just from night-kills). For that slot to flip town, it would mean not only that myself, Vasex, Spartan, Cheapside, and Whiskey all misread it, but that all of the damaging town plays from that slot have somehow come from town. Possible? Yes, sure.

This is what my earlier post referred to. Again, I can't elim anyone by myself. For people scum reading me to be elimmed, they needed 5 and 4 votes respectively. So acting like 'They died because they scum read BBT' makes no sense at all.

I also refer to my earlier points - which nobody replied to.

a) Scum!BBT completely dictated NKs and my partner had literally 0 input.
b) Scum!BBT is so bad that he literally just kills whoever scum reads him.
c) Scum!BBT literally unvoted two players at L-1 because...??? I would love for anyone to finish this sentence for me.
d) Scum!BBT did all of the above AND LEFT SOMNUS ALIVE.

Somebody make that make sense.

@somnus, trust me, I am considering it more today than I was yesterday. A lot. I've also decided you could be town, which is also a surprise.

Talk to me about this.

a) not following you on this idea. Why wouldn't your partner have input? What if your partner is a newbie scum!Corwin? He would be following your lead, wouldn't he?
b) like Bella said, maybe the NKs were simply the most town read players. Thinking beyond that is NKA right? And you don't like NKA to begin with, so what's your point. Are you suggesting scum!BBT absolutely does wifom NK plays no matter what?
c) scum!BBT can hop off a wagon with enough momentum for town to finish itself. Hopping off an E-1 isn't AI in itself, depends on the circumstances, wouldn't you agree? So if it's not inherently AI, why are you suggesting it is?
d) yeah I haven't ruled out a bbt somnus scum team, but anyway, again, the NKs were the most town read players and there were people like me who were reading somnus scum.

Here was my night note on if somnus got NK'd:

"Mercy kill from scum!whiskey? Absolutely no reason to kill somnus here."

*shrug*

[BlueBloodedToffee]

a) Because everyone who has died has died because they scum read BBT...that was the accusation, right? So, what's being said here is BBT has gone in both nights and said 'I don't care what you think, we're killing X because they're scum reading me.' That's why Spartan died according to some and you said the same for Whiskey at start of D3. If this is the case, which you and Somnus seem to believe, I am then saying why is town!Somnus alive in this game? Scum!BBT kills him because 'OMG he scum reads me'...no?
b) I repeatedly stated NKA was bullshit and yet people continued pushing that angle as to why I was scum. I'm again saying that this doesn't make sense.
c) Show me the Vasex wagon was going through D1 without me and show me the Somnus wagon was going through D2 without me. Scum!BBT jumped off town!Somnus at L-1 because what? Why? If you can prove wagons were going through without me, I'll retract.
d) I love how the NKs have

now

become the most town read players. This negates the 'they died because scum read BBT' no? Or we just gonna say both because narrative?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Also, I'll do some actual VCA soon because two people have tried and both were awful

[Bellaphant]

It was partly the vca that looked awful - every time we've wagoned dead town you were the counter.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah I realised that.

Doesn't look good for me does it...