Mini 2274: Terminator: Salvation Game Over!

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Leader Selection:

Andante [2]:

Radical Rat, Loki Dokie,

Aisa [2]:

Fidget, Ejjinami,

Ejjinami [2]:

NotAHecticAlt, Andante

Cat Scratch Fever [1]:

Gamma Emerald

Roden [1]:

Gamma Emerald

NotAHecticAlt [1]:

Roden

Radical Rat [1]:

Andante

not voting [5]:

Shoshin, Cat Scratch Fever, PenguinPower, Firebringer, Aisa

Mod Note: Your Latest Post Containing Heals will be considered your Heals and override all previous Heals.
Hurt Tags do not do anything.
Shoshin has been prodded

Event

Deadline

(expired on 2022-06-21 21:00:00)

[NotAHecticAlt]

HURT: Penguin
HEAL: ejj

That’s a 180 degree switch up? Especially on Penguin.

makes sense but ur going to have to point out why and how ur certain on someone isn't a waffler vs hedger

Waffling tends to occur in different posts with usually a logical timegap betweeh those changed reads. Hedging can either occur in the same post or subsequent posts that progressionwise don’t make much sense.

So for example, waffling: I have a strong town or sr on a player and then either new information or a new assessment makes me switch that read. The read changes but the logical progression behind it makes sense.

Hedging is more like you look like you’re making an actual read but failing to commit to it. It’s a way to make it easy to at some point out of nowhere flip your read on a player, since you’ve already laid the groundwork for having either kind of read on them. If you make a read where you outline points for where they can be either alignment, you don’t need to account for your read change.

It’s not black and white but it’s far easier to be outed as scum for illogical progression or fake waffling thznhedging because you’ve already laid the groundwork to be uncommitted to that read. So as long as there’s clear logical progression on a read, waffling is usually town indicative where as hedging makes it far easier for scum to hide.

Don't put words into my mouth. That is all for now.

[Loki Dokie]

HURT: Penguin
HEAL: ejj

That’s a 180 degree switch up? Especially on Penguin.

makes sense but ur going to have to point out why and how ur certain on someone isn't a waffler vs hedger

Waffling tends to occur in different posts with usually a logical timegap betweeh those changed reads. Hedging can either occur in the same post or subsequent posts that progressionwise don’t make much sense.

So for example, waffling: I have a strong town or sr on a player and then either new information or a new assessment makes me switch that read. The read changes but the logical progression behind it makes sense.

Hedging is more like you look like you’re making an actual read but failing to commit to it. It’s a way to make it easy to at some point out of nowhere flip your read on a player, since you’ve already laid the groundwork for having either kind of read on them. If you make a read where you outline points for where they can be either alignment, you don’t need to account for your read change.

It’s not black and white but it’s far easier to be outed as scum for illogical progression or fake waffling thznhedging because you’ve already laid the groundwork to be uncommitted to that read. So as long as there’s clear logical progression on a read, waffling is usually town indicative where as hedging makes it far easier for scum to hide.

Don't put words into my mouth. That is all for now.

????

You literally did a 180 on both and you at least referenced eijj but you went from wanting Penguin to be town leader to sr him.

So what words did I put into your mouth? What did I say that wasn’t true?

[NotAHecticAlt]

Where did I say I scumread penguin?

also
HEAL: ejj
HEAL: andante

My current top townreads are ejj, andante, and CSF - ranked from strongest to weakest.

[Loki Dokie]

Where did I say I scumread penguin?

also
HEAL: ejj
HEAL: andante

My current top townreads are ejj, andante, and CSF - ranked from strongest to weakest.

HURT: Penguin
HEAL: ejj

I can’t wait for someone to suddenly accuse me of not hard tr Andante but between you and eijj misconstruing my posting, anything is possible.

[Loki Dokie]

Are there events for every day phase?
HEAL: Roden
HEAL: Cat Scratch Fever
First one is just cuz, second one is because I feel like the question about what Leader does is a genuine town ask

Anyway, looks like this is the chance to put some demons to rest more directly.

I think it's best we take this one leader at a time for now. Gives us time for more AI content to be generated from the first election that can be used to inform the second.

@Pooky, how do multiple votes work? Do they work as in multiple votes but for one leader or do multiple votes mean, we’d be voting for 2. and do we need to have selected 2 leaders by deadline or just one?

If we’re only required to select one, then I agree with RR here but this approach makes sense. I do like asia’s being cautious about not rushing things so maybe town?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

you are allowed to heal 0 1 or 2 players in your most recent heal post

those heals will count for leader selection

if a player reaches 6 heals, that player will be locked in as a "leader"

if you do not elect 2 leaders this way, then whoever has the most heals at the end of the deadline will become "leaders" plurality ties broken by seniority

[Loki Dokie]

Where I’m at is that whatever NAFA, Roden and Fire are, NAFA and Roden don’t look to be aligned with Fire, should that ever become relevant.

It also kind of sucks for me that probably the best player at correctly reading me, I’m not great at reading.

you are allowed to heal 0 1 or 2 players in your most recent heal post

those heals will count for leader selection

if a player reaches 6 heals, that player will be locked in as a "leader"

if you do not elect 2 leaders this way, then whoever has the most heals at the end of the deadline will become "leaders" plurality ties broken by seniority

Okay thanks.

I don’t want to rush but I liked RR’s caution so might sheep Andante on that but I need to hear a lot more from RR first. Maybe asia?

I still think I want to keep my heal on Andante regardless unless she absolutely objects to being leader.

[NotAHecticAlt]

Where did I say I scumread penguin?

also
HEAL: ejj
HEAL: andante

My current top townreads are ejj, andante, and CSF - ranked from strongest to weakest.

HURT: Penguin
HEAL: ejj

I can’t wait for someone to suddenly accuse me of not hard tr Andante but between you and eijj misconstruing my posting, anything is possible.

oh rofl

i used hurt tags to remove my leader vote on penguin. so i was right that you put words in my mouth.

[Radical Rat]

RR trying to hedge a read without appearing to do so

very creative strategy, I'll have to try it sometime

forgive me for being blunt, accusing people for doubtful reasons at best won’t accomplish much at this point
You wrote that read without thinking much, possibly a response to a scum-read on you.
Possibly as a way to maintain the leader-persona
please, quit it.
it just makes you appear unpredictable. It would be good to have some way to determine whether you seriously think of scum-reading someone or it’s just a reaction-test

dont we all hedge. i mean ur hedging on me.
I am hedging on a secret coin flip on a few players.

Hedging keeps the game turning

bleh
forced
Give me the result tho

The point was they made a scumread by dressing it up as a maybe townread - I dont think this kind of "testing the waters" is towny and frankly, looks outing to me.

Whoa, that is not what happened. I do townread Firebringer, I just don't think he'd make a good leader because of his playstyle, not because he might be scum.

[Aisa]

HEAL: ejjinami
Also quite liking ejji for leader at the moment. The volume and flow of their posting seems natural. For example, their reaction to some of my posts feels not overthought; I also like 220. I did a quick search and didn't find any past games as scum. Assuming they're not an alt this also raises my confidence in them being town slightly? I think that if they are fake town-spewing they are doing pretty competent town-spew, to the extent I'd expect it to be slightly out of reach for a newer scum player?

Admittedly am slightly susceptible to tring high volume posters and people who agree with me, so here's to hoping that's not the case x

If my count is correct, ejji has four heals at the moment. Would love to hear from anyone who has reservations about ejji.

Anyone kicking around rn and want a quick chat?

[NotAHecticAlt]

HEAL: ejjinami
Also quite liking ejji for leader at the moment. The volume and flow of their posting seems natural. For example, their reaction to some of my posts feels not overthought; I also like 220. I did a quick search and didn't find any past games as scum. Assuming they're not an alt this also raises my confidence in them being town slightly? I think that if they are fake town-spewing they are doing pretty competent town-spew, to the extent I'd expect it to be slightly out of reach for a newer scum player?

Admittedly am slightly susceptible to tring high volume posters and people who agree with me, so here's to hoping that's not the case x

If my count is correct, ejji has four heals at the moment. Would love to hear from anyone who has reservations about ejji.

Anyone kicking around rn and want a quick chat?

I have the highest post count and i seem to be invisible to you - wanna talk about your read on me

[Gamma Emerald]

I am superbly lost this game
HEAL: no one
I still have certain mech thoughts but reads-wise I feel like I am behind

[Aisa]

"Since I've started writing this I see this has been discussed and people mostly seem to agree with me" was shorthand for "I skimmed some of the discussion. On a more careful reread people have already made these points, and it's also been discussed more since I started writing this".

I realise this sort of posting is anti-town and it would make life better if my posting were accurate the first time around. What can I say, eh, digesting posts fully is hard and the thread is busy right now.

What, the game only had 5 pages at this point

[...]

Sounds like yer attention span is better than mine

Because I'm critiquing both Loki and Not Hectic, presumably, and the Loki read is about NotHectic.

I think bad reasoning knows no alignment. Even if I'm having questions towards someone's motives, I'm not going to turn a blind eye to arguments being presented against them.

Or, perhaps, I'm mistaken about what you're getting at

Yeah

Or more specifically

NotHectic has a read that you don't understand

Loki also thinks NotHectic's reads are hard to understand

I found this a bit convoluted and it took me a couple rereads to understand, which makes me lean slightly town on CSF

[Aisa]

[...]

I have the highest post count and i seem to be invisible to you - wanna talk about your read on me

I haven't really talked about many players in this game, I guess you could say most of the playerlist is invisible to me. But would love to talk about my read on you. No clue how to read you so far. I feel like some of your comments are a bit speculative. This, for example:

Loki's interest in being on Andante's good side, knowing how Andante tends to play, comes off as a scum pocket in the sense that they're trying to look good by giving andante leader ? this is like strictly a preflip off seeing andante as town and noticing how loki is treating Andante, as matter of fact town who has good reads and not separate from that, if that makes sense.

ejj feels LAMISTy in like a subtle way too


so rn like preliminary scumpool is [FB/ejj/Loki] for independent reasons.

gamma/CSF had weird entrances too

for your theory to make sense we require Loki = scum, Andante = town, and I felt like that was a slightly strong assumption.

Respectfully, I also think you're wrong about Loki putting words in your mouth, but was wondering whether that was a reaction test of some sort maybe?

[Radical Rat]

Ejj feels like the Town version of The Alt (not) Formerly Known As Hectic.

Like, they're similarly hyperposting, both coming off as somewhat arrogant, and tinged with LAMIST.... But for reasons I can't quite articulate, Ejj's posting seems genuine, while citceH's doesn't.

[Aisa]

I do think this is a good post:

RR trying to hedge a read without appearing to do so

very creative strategy, I'll have to try it sometime

I agree with you! It does feel like Radical Rat is a bit fence-sitty in the post your are referring to. Ultimately they are stating a lot of hedge-y views but not doing a ton to advance the game. The caveat is that it could just be playstyle, and I haven't really had time to look into what their playstyle is.

RR trying to hedge a read without appearing to do so

very creative strategy, I'll have to try it sometime

forgive me for being blunt, accusing people for doubtful reasons at best won’t accomplish much at this point
You wrote that read without thinking much, possibly a response to a scum-read on you.
Possibly as a way to maintain the leader-persona
please, quit it.
it just makes you appear unpredictable. It would be good to have some way to determine whether you seriously think of scum-reading someone or it’s just a reaction-test
[...]

The point was they made a scumread by dressing it up as a maybe townread - I dont think this kind of "testing the waters" is towny and frankly, looks outing to me.

Though if the "scumread dressed up as a maybe townread" you're referring to is Loki's read on you, I think you're misinterpreting what they're saying.

To summarise - I think you sometimes make good posts, like 191. I also agree with most of your reads: ejj is my strongest townread, I have a townlean on Andante, you previously said you think I am town <3<3, and I think this is promising at it makes you slightly less likely to be pushing an independent agenda. Writing this has made me realise that I should update my view of you slightly, and I'll have you as a very slight townlean.

However, I get the vibe that you'd be able to make the posts you've made so far as scum, too. This is compounded by some of the issues I mentioned in my previous post. I worry that you're clinging a little to your read on Loki and acting slightly "aggressive" in order to look like you're doing something. I think sometimes interacting with people in real time helps me form a better view of them, so NotHectic, wanna tell me if my impression of you is accurate?

[ejjinami]

I don’t see why you view my asking Andante if she really doesn’t want to be leader, I would unneal her, “performative”?

Because I did that right after Roden made his post saying pretty much that or did you somehow miss that?
Like how do you have this take and completely ignore that?

Here @ejjanami

Tell me how I wasn’t being “honest” again, I’ll wait.

Mmm
yeah sorry, I did miss that post. It makes sense.

Frankly, I hated the response at first but that it might have been my fault. Let’s talk about it, this wasn’t the only post I got that vibe from, I just used that one as an example.
Your attitude seems performative to me in general.
Besides a rather high self esteem and caring A LOT about what people think of you, I fail to see a personality through your posts.

There is no conclusion about alignment in my reasoning and I’m not trying to do so, so if you’re looking for anything game-progressive, feel free to skip reading this post. Placing it in a spoiler.

Spoiler:

Why are we voting heals based only off a few posts? I like the reasoning behind the heals but the game just literally started.

why aren't u healing?

Because I haven’t decided yet obviously. Why are you asking me that when you haven’t either?

I don’t want anyone to be leader who is campaigning that hard for it. Feel free to sr me for that.

The personality you showed at the beginning of the game and the one later on don’t match up.
beginning of the game- you used short sentences as if playing a person with a no bullshit / straight to the point mindset.

Later on- when I and Andante were thunderdoming- you largely ignored it-

[...] but I think the most important criteria should be confidence in the player’s alignment and I’m healing my #1 tr unless someone can explain a better reason for that vote.

Why is it sus to heal my most confident tr?

Do you have a better criteria for whom should be healed?

You seemed happy to talk about things that were related to your confidence (andante being town, you being town, people being wrong for suspecting you)- yet completely ignored doing annoying but helpful chores – like- clearing up the misunderstanding.
I also found it interesting how confident you acted in Andante’s scum-hunting ability… while she was scum-reading me for misunderstandings which you DID notice. So at the same time you were town-reading both me and andante, andante was scum-reading me, you noticed that “the quarrel is dumb“ – yet praised Andante’s scum-hunting ability for reasons you saw were incorrect.

To be clear- I’m not criticizing the behavior, I’m currently not reading it. I’m stating it as a fact.

First off, I really really really hate the post cap thingie. I love to post spontaneously but when I didn’t read aboit the post cap in Happy Face, I nearly ran out of posts on d1. Why do you hate us so much @Pooky?

you started shitposting after that, which is a good indication that you felt pretty chill despite your town-reads trying to kill each other

What I got from that progression – your own feeling of confidence and maintaining the image of a professional/lofty/above the earthly matters – is what you personally aim for. As long as you feel confident and strong, you will personally feel “good” and feel less motivated to engage despite townies killing each other. You may also intentionally phrase your posts to achieve some sort of effect (like you did at the beginning of the game and when defending Andante)
Again- just a reminder- this is my impression of you. I know it sounds provocative and probably very rude- it’s just the way I phrase things in my head.

What strengthens the view that you may put in a lot of effort to look “strong”, is the way you respond to pressure. Firstly, you tend to react intensely to scum-reads and till now- always attack back, regardless if that person is someone you consider an ally or not.

why aren't u healing?

Because I haven’t decided yet obviously. Why are you asking me that when you haven’t either?

loki frozen and crying in scumchat

This is an extreme reaction to my post since I am nowhere even remotely “frozen”.

Back to thinking you’re scum again.

I don’t have a read on asia yet and I don’t see why you view my asking Andante if she really doesn’t want to be leader, I would unneal her, “performative”?

Because I did that right after Roden made his post saying pretty much that or did you somehow miss that?
Like how do you have this take and completely ignore that?

^ normally, there is a big difference whether one responds an “ally” or “enemy” and that’s what I’d expect from a player. It makes sense to think of an ally scum-reading you as more of “an misunderstanding” and of an enemy as “an attack”.

I don’t get that from your posts.

“or did you

somehow

miss that? Like how do you have this take

and completely ignore that

?”

imo, that’s not an attitude of a person trying to “help an ally get on the right track”
You respond to all scum-reads as to “personal attacks”.

Again, I’m not judging. This is just an observation. It felt like either your ego was hurt because of the scum-read (sorry in that case, and sorry for phrasing it that way) – to the point where the identity of the one who criticized you didn’t matter (that would support the theory that appearance matters A LOT to you)
ooooor that you don’t consider me an “ally” despite me being a town-read and were just trying to pressure me into backing off. (again, being performative for a different reason)

I’m currently putting off determining which conclusion is correct.

If you want me to phrase it differently- I got the impression that you are verbally deceptive, you care a lot about your image and put in effort to maintain that, not necessarily as a way to push an agenda, just as a way to feel good about yourself. Usually it’s harder to read players when they’re playing a role regardless of alignment
Frankly speaking I feel like if this continues, we may clash eventually regardless of alignment. That’s why, if you’re able to deal with being imperfect and controlling your tone less, it would surely help me read you.
If not- then not.

Frankly, I don’t know why I’m ever saying that. Askign a player to change their playstyle has never worked so far and I’d be dumb to assume that it will.
let me just say that I just don’t like this lol
And probably shut up

(you don’t have to respond to this post btw. This is MY impression. It’s not about alignment. Frankly, I may be kinda glad if you do ignore it cuz I feel like I might just be getting into a giant fight and I’m not really up to that)
(just you know, what I wrote is neutral to me. Frankly speaking if I were to describe myself as a person, it would look similarly illogical xd … so yeah…)

[Fidget]

which posts are lamisty

Probably your page 1-2 felt weird to me. But it got better

Spoiler: These were all made in the first ~50 posts

HEAL: NotAHecticAlt

RR, what are you addressing?

oh rofl i just read the rules and you cant self heal lame

HEAL: PenguinPower

I'd also like myself to be healed as I tend to thrive with control over stuff in games like this.

because i felt they had the towniest entrance

also theyre a mod so clearly theyre already well suited in positions of power

moreso the frivolous attitude towards choosing a leader feels agendaless

NotHectic why do you want control or why do you want Peng to have control?

Because i know I am town and i tend to take these kinds of mech things seriously + my top townread is penguin rn so if i cant have it i might as well push a townread in atp.

I felt like your Peng read was a weird cross up of a joke and serious, yet at the same time Peng basically hadn't played yet. When I asked you why you were so eager to push control for yourself or Peng, you said that it was because Peng was your top townread and you "take the mech seriously".

I also was somewhat lukewarm on the campaigning. You seem like a player who wants to position themself both power-wise as well as wants to be proactive as early as possible since you're already fully trying to solve and get your way on page 1-2.

Of course, the impression of you I'm getting is not exclusive to a terminator mindset.

[ejjinami]

The point was they made a scumread by dressing it up as a maybe townread - I dont think this kind of "testing the waters" is towny and frankly, looks outing to me.

I'm trying to understand this post but I can't
sorry
what do you mean by outing???

actually based on the event name "encrypted communications" they probably get a hood
pearing time hell yeah

oh yeah.. and that'd be why town would benefit, cause 2 town in a hood... can be pretty good

ooooooh
huh
good idea

Meh that's good enough for now, I'm like getting sick IRL, it's great, but yeah I had a partner read I don't remember who, it was fidget and someone... ahhh should've just written it down. whelp yeah.

HEAL: Radical Rat
HEAL: ejjinami

I think those 2 are good to heal though

Can you talk to me about rat?

[Fidget]

Aisa Eiji Loki Gamma all feel town so far

FB seems like he's kinda just posturing

Why Gamma? Good impression of FB. My main impression thus far was him talking about what he would do as scum in this game.

we can use hurt tags to vote on that

HURT: ejj
HURT: loki
HURT: Firebringer

Oh and what’s weird about Gamma’s and CFS’ entrances?

And still trying to decide if you’re town and your ability to read me hasn’t improved since Anything uPick or you’re scum tunneling me similarly to what you did in Witch Hunt.

I’m really not impressed by the threat in the last lines. It feels like there’s enmity towards Hectic, yet the main message sent was “stop scum-reading me or I’ll scum-read you”
intentional or not, it feels manipulative

I echo this. That is not a productive line of questioning.

im not even trying to be townread ..? im trying to be leader, yes, but im overall trying to hardsolve the game d1 because im like always n1d as town nowadays

I… actually kinda buy this

ok ill spill why i want to be leader so bad - because i believe that leader gets nightkill immunity likely and id like that for myself.

Lmao why would you not want to get night-killed
Frankly, if I were to give it to someone, I’d choose someone whom I either trust 100% to protect them or whose decisions I trust… so that changes literally nothing :/
that post feels townie tho

btw, I doubt that. This is only a 13p game. Having 2 people with some sort of decisive power AND night-kill immunity for both of them seems like overkill
Could break the game in many scenarios

What do you mean that you buy they are not "trying" to be townread?

Second quote by Not Not Not Not Hectic is hard to believe. So, you're saying that you have a theory that for some reason leaders get nightkill immunity, and BECAUSE of that, you've decided to campaign for yourself really hard, BECAUSE you expect to blow scums sock's off so quickly so they'll have to kill u n1?

I'm not sure how to interpret that.

[Aisa]

Ejj feels like the Town version of The Alt (not) Formerly Known As Hectic.

Like, they're similarly hyperposting, both coming off as somewhat arrogant, and tinged with LAMIST.... But for reasons I can't quite articulate, Ejj's posting seems genuine, while citceH's doesn't.

I think I know what you're referring to re: ejj feeling genuine and NotHectic not feeling as genuine. But I would say they have quite different posting styles. I think ejj's posting style may be more "introspective" or "stream of consciousness-like", which to some, maybe myself included, may inherently appear more towny.

Could I ask you to take your post one step further though? "NotHectic does not seem genuine and I cannot explain why" is not exactly a committal statement. Can you try to explain what about it comes off as not genuine? You thought NotHectic was probably town yesterday, have you changed your mind? The leader deadline is in a bit more than two days, what are you going to do about it? It's ok if you don't want to address all my questions in depth, but also be aware that I am not I'm not massively sold right now and draw your own conclusions about how much you care about changing my perception of you.

@Gamma

well give us the mech thoughts then?

[ejjinami]

HURT: Penguin
HEAL: ejj

Unexpected :/

I can’t wait for someone to suddenly accuse me of not hard tr Andante but between you and eijj misconstruing my posting, anything is possible.

oh rofl

i used hurt tags to remove my leader vote on penguin. so i was right that you put words in my mouth.

I seriously don't understand this conversation

to the extent I'd expect it to be slightly out of reach for a newer scum player?

I'm not a newer player
The forum I usually played on doesn’t work (at least for me – it’s Town of Salem if you’re curious)
Tho frankly, probably just read me again... that might be the easiest :/

[Fidget]

like im doing a pretty shit job of getting townread by putting myself out there in a way that gives me negative attention and all lmao

Okay, come now.

Fidget may consider FM an obligation. Till now they seemed to have been responding to posts mechanically- more out of a sense of duty (because they joined the game and consider it necessary to be serious), not because they consider anything they talked about interesting.
Frankly, that just instinctively makes me wary. It’s near impossible to determine whether the feeling of “hAvInG tO be productive” comes from personality or being scum (they question players because they hAvE tO act townie and actually don’t give a crap about anything they say).
Anyway, the feeling that they’re not personally attached to what they’re talking about makes me wary. I’m struggling to see fidget’s personality through their posts besides that.

Hm.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say I respond to posts mechanically, or when you say that I don't consider what I talk about interesting. I respond exclusively to posts that interest me.

You are correct that I am attempting to conceal my personality. I think you're definitely picking up on some bits of truth.

[ejjinami]

im not even trying to be townread ..? im trying to be leader, yes, but im overall trying to hardsolve the game d1 because im like always n1d as town nowadays

I… actually kinda buy this

What do you mean that you buy they are not "trying" to be townread?

that's what I'm getting from my observation. Hectic seems to be responding instinctively to most posts. Although the energy feels intentional, I feel no agenda behind it- they're just doing it on a whim- which matches what Hectic said about "trying to act like a leader, which is different from trying to act townie"

Basically - regardless of hectic's alignment I believe that they believe that what they're currently doing is pro-town
if that makes sense