Mini Normal 2276: Around the World - Game Over!

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

vote count 1.03

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-07-12 12:00:00).

yeet

marcistar[3]:

Ausuka, scamper, Datisi,

Shoshin[2]:

Roden, Save The Dragons

Crescent[1]:

Shoshin

Scamper[1]:

Gamma Emerald

Not Voting[6]:

InsidiousLemons, Alexcellent, Crescent, JohnnyFarrar, marcistar, Bellaphant

mod note

Prague is home to the largest castle in the world.

Flavor

[marcistar]

"Fling poop around and see where it sticks" is a tried and true scum strategy. The issue is, it tends to dilute your actual vote so much that it has no real power. The goal is you're hoping even one of the people you shade takes off as a train - Preferably someone you've never actually voted so it doesn't blow back directly on you.

If he were shitposting it'd be NAI to me. The fact that he voted me for pointing out he dodged a question was a mere continuance of his already anti-town behavior (His previous vote was also a direct countervote).

i think ur drawing conclusions too quickly.

Ok, first off I'd like to ask Marci what she thought was over explainy about my first post?? It was like three lines lmao

No, I don't know why anyone would add Miller to a role which can't be investigated.

I feel like I got a middle finger instead of a Role PM this game

This part of it felt like you were trying to justify why you claimed because of being worried of how you would be viewed.

she's trying to win an argument and isn't really worried about how this impacts Crescent's alignment.

yes, im just trying to win the argument, and what about it?
I think shoshins okay rn, and I think Crescents drawing alot of lines prematurely.

144 makes me like alexcellent.

suspicious of roden because the early townread of shoshin for "solving behind the scenes" seems (1) kinda awkwardly explained, (2) seems like tmi? like, i'm a bit skeptical that he saw two basically naked votes and decided there's some townie solving happening there

im not really in agreeance with 2.

Marci gave off "clueless, easily pocketed town" vibes (Shoshin being the one player to definitively call her town) from that post specifically.

i'm not doing this 100% cluelessly.

The tantrum bit is the one part that sticks out if anything. I was giving a rational breakdown of another player's actions and how they were naturally scum slanted. It felt more like her trying to shut me down to protect Shoshin more than having anything to do about my alignment.

u mean almost like what ur doing to shoshin?? my bad my bad!!

[Ausuka]

I thought someone finally agreed with my Alex read, I feel betrayed

Working theory: Roden/Datisi/Crescent scumteam.

Oh he's shitposting for reactions. Less interesting.

I can understand where Crescent is coming from with discrediting Shoshin, I think, considering it started after this post. People tend to be defensive in response to pushes anyway and the scumteam-solving so early did seem shitposty on a read-through.

[scamper]

gm all!

VOTE: Roden

Marci's town.

Roden needs more votes.

I'm seeing some BTS solving here. There's a pretty good chance you're town.

Why do you think Marci is town?

why do you think unexplained reads is a towntell?

idk guys maybe because i AM town??? smh acting like its so hard

dont like this

To elaborate, very unlikely that scum Marci calls town Ausuka's role fake. Equally unlikely that scumteam Ausuka/Marci planned this bit of drama to start the game off (besides the obvious pro-town effect of their play getting us out of RVS, it just seems too much to pull off this quickly with no real scum logic behind the play).

Ausuka's 26 feels like fake frustration. I'm surprised anyone suspects Marci over Ausuka here. Strongly doubt it's genuine from everyone involved.

i dont understand your reasoning as to why scum doesnt call a miller claim fake, and i dont agree with ausuka seeming fake. my biggest issue is that i cant get marci to explain her logic for WHY she thinks the claim seems fake and her initial reason for the scumread had nothing to do with believing the claim - she said it was for "trying too hard to appear helpful" and then when i questioned her on it she changed her reasoning...

[Ausuka]

This part of it felt like you were trying to justify why you claimed because of being worried of how you would be viewed.

Why is trying to shut down a potential avenue of attack scum indicative at all. Is town Ausuka supposed to want people coming in saying "lol you fucked up, miller makes no sense with ascetic, we're limming you day 1, enjoy dead chat idiot"

You trying to win the argument is scummy because it represents a lack of sorting Crescent which I feel would be more natural for town Marci there, I think I explained it in my post already

[Shoshin]

I thought someone finally agreed with my Alex read, I feel betrayed

His posts feel scummy but there's no clear reasons to suspect. A few things I liked: 163, and his approach to Bella. Enough to read as town. Your concerns (and mine) are likely stylistic, not indicative.

[Shoshin]

I'm fairly confident in Roden/Gamma/Ausuka/Marci/Alex as town.

[scamper]

Why do you think it's more likely for scum to fake claim an absurd-sounding role than for scum to doubt an absurd-sounding role?

Scum are more likely to fake-claim than town.

ok but we have no indication the claim is fake, and town can real claim...

my issue is this: i think town true claims miller far, far more often than scum fake claims miller. ascetic is probably a tossup because both alignments can true claim it but at worst its =rand. in general i think a miller claim is >rand town and i dont find ausuaka scummy otherwise. i can re-evaluate down the line if ausuka gets scummy but i have no reason to think shes scum right now

[scamper]

I'm fairly confident in Roden/Gamma/Ausuka/Marci/Alex as town.

hm i guess i should read up more

[Crescent]

If you're town, Crescent, you have nothing to worry about.

For the sake of discussion, assume I'm town for a second. What're your reads?

Quick random thoughts instead because who legitimately has a lot of "reads" this early in a game?:

Marci's possibility of being scum goes up if you're town, but that post that's being put under fire reads to me as a post so "wtf" that scum would actually think about it before making it.

Roden has some town equity regardless of your alignment. Roden likely isn't scum with you and Roden is calling us both town on a snap judgment for reasons that seem legitimate if you're town.

Johnny popping in to say "I exist" and then immediately top townreading the one person to reply to him with zero reasoning as his only two posts is a concerning opener. This has gone so under the radar no one has even talked about it yet. I'd like to hear why that townread was given out when he posts next.

I'm still waiting for Scamper to actually say why he townreads me and Gamma. Feel like I've been waiting on that for a while.

Alex is neutral and I'm uncertain where the SRs came from. I felt like he started posting and then immediately got jumped on for flimsy reasoning.

I actually find Datisi to be completely null to me so far, and I feel like a lot of people have been throwing TRs in that direction without actually giving any real reasoning for it. Feels like a take scum may have jumped in on at some point - Which is another reason why I want Johnny to explain why it's the only thing he did.

If I haven't named someone it's 'cause I have nothing to say or 'cause I did and I forgot what it was. I'm too busy to ISO at the moment.


Roden is the only player right now I think have any real town-lean on regardless of your alignment in any case.

[Crescent]

Oh hey I see Scamper posted Scamper if you didn't answer the question in my post please answer it now thank you.

Will read later.

[Datisi]

144 makes me like alexcellent.

how is that post anywhere in the realm of good

[scamper]

bellaphant seems town.

...why

Oh no, I've drawn aggro from the guy who just expertly avoided actually answering the previous question asked to him.

dont like this either

Frankly though, he's already pointed out three people as scum, someone to be scum if we're not, and also said an inactive is probably scum so he's probably wrong on the three of us anyway.

It reeks of flinging poop around and seeing where it sticks. He's pretty well thrown shade at half the players in the game in the first 100 posts.

ok but is that actually a scumtell?

sdcum

generally

doesnt try to make enemies with half the game right away. whats the purpose of "flinging poop around" if its likely to earn the ire of a bunch of people. even if i disagree with shoshin i dont think her reads are fake based on how shes explained them. this feels like omgus to me

[scamper]

Oh hey I see Scamper posted Scamper if you didn't answer the question in my post please answer it now thank you.

Will read later.

what post? i'm searching your iso and i dont see it

[Datisi]

I'm still waiting for Scamper to actually say why he townreads me and Gamma. Feel like I've been waiting on that for a while.

@scamper

[scamper]

i don't see how thats scummy..?

why would scum want to naked vote and draw attention to themselves?
why would shoshin

not

want to shade people this early on? it'll cause reactions for sure and help better read people? like how ur having a tantrum over them scumreading you rn
why are

you

framing everything they do in such a bad way? the certain words, "bullshitting", "dodging a question" its making a bigger deal of something than it should be.
why are

you

expecting shoshin to be perfect?

this is the first marci post ive liked because it echoes a lot of my own reasoning w/r/t how crescent is responding to shoshin

[scamper]

I'm still waiting for Scamper to actually say why he townreads me and Gamma. Feel like I've been waiting on that for a while.

@scamper

okay that wasnt a question and crescent never actually asked me about it before that post so im not sure why he would be waiting on an explanation.....

i liked 42 and 48, they showed some nice thought process that was solvy and seemed to be getting more serious than others, which on page 2 is enough for me to say its a townping

for gamma, this is kind of a weird read, but i didnt think scum would defend someone with "i wanted to play with her", i would expect some measure of comment on her alignment. maybe this is a dumb read but its what i thought at that moment

[scamper]

Do kind of find it interesting though that Ausuka claimed that and then no one really acknowledged it until Marci like 8 posts later or something

why do you think that is interesting?

Btw I like Alex so far
VOTE: Scamper
Rather perturbed by the exact wording of their TR on me

well, now i think ur more town so i dont feel like my original reason was that dumb

what do you like about alex?

[Gamma Emerald]

Oh hey I see Scamper posted Scamper if you didn't answer the question in my post please answer it now thank you.

Will read later.

also want my question answered

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm still waiting for Scamper to actually say why he townreads me and Gamma. Feel like I've been waiting on that for a while.

@scamper

okay that wasnt a question and crescent never actually asked me about it before that post so im not sure why he would be waiting on an explanation.....

i liked 42 and 48, they showed some nice thought process that was solvy and seemed to be getting more serious than others, which on page 2 is enough for me to say its a townping

for gamma, this is kind of a weird read, but i didnt think scum would defend someone with "i wanted to play with her", i would expect some measure of comment on her alignment. maybe this is a dumb read but its what i thought at that moment

okay this might track actually
UNVOTE:

[scamper]

So no reason for me NOT to believe Ausuka at this point, but I don't think it's impossible that scum makes that claim.

i dont really think scum claims ascetic miller on page 1, i think if ascetic they just claim ascetic without the miller part, cuz the extra detail is unnecessary to invent. simplest explanation is aus got given an actual weird neg util role and claimed it

ill leave this here for now

VOTE: marci

Hmm we get into WIFOM territory here though. Why would scum say ascetic miller and not just ascetic? Maybe so we can have this conversation. Good lies involve detail and ascetic miller is a way to say "omg guys look at this dumb role I've got, why is this a thing?" Rather than blindly going "I'm ascetic," and everyone has to decide if they believe it or not. Also the conversation is muddied a bit more because we're no longer just going "idk if I believe Ausuka", now we're going "why would this role exist?"
But yeah, I'm just thinking out loud. This early in the game I'm happy to lean more towards accepting that there's an ascetic miller.

i already went over this but i dont think you can handwave things away as "WIFOM", u have to actually look at what is more/less likely and i think a miller claim is way more likely town than not

[Gamma Emerald]

Do kind of find it interesting though that Ausuka claimed that and then no one really acknowledged it until Marci like 8 posts later or something

why do you think that is interesting?

Btw I like Alex so far
VOTE: Scamper
Rather perturbed by the exact wording of their TR on me

well, now i think ur more town so i dont feel like my original reason was that dumb

what do you like about alex?

Alex feels chill in a town way
scum would be more anxious

[Crescent]

bellaphant seems town.

...why

Oh no, I've drawn aggro from the guy who just expertly avoided actually answering the previous question asked to him.

dont like this either

Frankly though, he's already pointed out three people as scum, someone to be scum if we're not, and also said an inactive is probably scum so he's probably wrong on the three of us anyway.

It reeks of flinging poop around and seeing where it sticks. He's pretty well thrown shade at half the players in the game in the first 100 posts.

ok but is that actually a scumtell?

sdcum

generally

doesnt try to make enemies with half the game right away. whats the purpose of "flinging poop around" if its likely to earn the ire of a bunch of people. even if i disagree with shoshin i dont think her reads are fake based on how shes explained them. this feels like omgus to me

You just depicted exactly why scum so often gets away with this kind of behavior, thank you. It's basically puppetmastering half of the town against itself so obviously that people overlook just how obvious it is. I haven't seen a case of it this strong in a couple of years now. Every read that comes out of Shoshin feels completely manufactured, and then maybe after the fact one or two will actually be justified a bit. They can change "any read" they want any time they want and effectively get away with it, because they're so over the map that no one can follow them. There's nothing remotely resembling actual game solving from their posts.

I've been trying the last time I saw someone posting the way they have actually turn up town.

[Shoshin]

Crescent, what's the difference between your town play and scum play? Why should I believe this is town you?

[Crescent]

So no reason for me NOT to believe Ausuka at this point, but I don't think it's impossible that scum makes that claim.

i dont really think scum claims ascetic miller on page 1, i think if ascetic they just claim ascetic without the miller part, cuz the extra detail is unnecessary to invent. simplest explanation is aus got given an actual weird neg util role and claimed it

ill leave this here for now

VOTE: marci

Hmm we get into WIFOM territory here though. Why would scum say ascetic miller and not just ascetic? Maybe so we can have this conversation. Good lies involve detail and ascetic miller is a way to say "omg guys look at this dumb role I've got, why is this a thing?" Rather than blindly going "I'm ascetic," and everyone has to decide if they believe it or not. Also the conversation is muddied a bit more because we're no longer just going "idk if I believe Ausuka", now we're going "why would this role exist?"
But yeah, I'm just thinking out loud. This early in the game I'm happy to lean more towards accepting that there's an ascetic miller.

i already went over this but i dont think you can handwave things away as "WIFOM", u have to actually look at what is more/less likely and i think a miller claim is way more likely town than not

My stance is just to ignore the claim and let Ausuka's play speak for itself.