LOST (Game Over)

[JohnnyFarrar]

Hi

[Dunnstral]

Malcolm gets "my username is just my first and last name" points (pls don't dox us)

Mal was uneasy about Pooky townreads really early

428 looks poignant.

@Bell

what makes you think Mal dies d1 a lot?

I like the pushback on t-Bones post restriction push

I don't like Mal +1ing frogs idea to just make them use all their words

Mal townreads dweelee for a pooky vote???

@Mal

state your beef w/Pookington

1. Misrecalled, I skimmed a few games with them in it and they always seemed to be getting pressured for style/grammar. It was an oppos, but it kind of had a maybe happy ending through Luke's identification.
But it could be totally wrong. their posting hasn't been great since.

I don't think there's a case to be made for scum Penguin in the same way that there isn't a way to case someone who has never posted.
It's the Dunnstral problem.

Why is my name here?

I think the way PenguinPower reassessed his read on Dunnstral was very natural and it happened in real time, which makes it less likely that it was faked

1175 -- PP still townreading Dunnstral here. Then Dunnstral posted his readlist, and PP took major issue with it:

Spoiler:

mmmm....x to doubt your [Dunnstrals'] null reads.

dunn is yellow now

Bell
Rad
Enchant
Dancing Puppets (Nancy Drew 39 and Titus)

hate this.

dunn is orange now.

(this is about Dunnstral's townreads btw)

When did Bell?

I think he's town but I recall you FoSing him somewhere.

~Titus

I think that the way they are treating me comes from town them. Calling out Toogeloo early in pt is towny. Their reads are believable. When they are scum they are more stilted.

PT? Who is in it?

My PT partner brought up the fact that they don't trust me, that I could be scum, and that I basically asked for a free pass through Day 1.

For those not in the know, I was involved in a head on collision last Friday night. My kids were in the car with me. I was ambulances to the ER, but thankfully my kids walked away with minor injuries.

I am doing some daily physical therapy and we are working with lawyers and insurance right now, and in my down time I am trying to relax and rest.

I don't anticipate this being problematic beyond this week, but if people feel I'm getting a pass, or need to replace out, I will.

---

I have not read anything other than my PT. I actually didn't consider the possibility that my partner might consider us unaligned. Based on my show knowledge, I actually would have thought us Masons if my PM didn't specifically call us neighbors.

My role is Shannon, my partner is Boone. We are in a PT called Kissing Siblings, which I don't recall them being incestual at all, lol.

At any rate, I will get to this eventually.

hey lovelies it's the beakiest bitch of them all ;)

uh I only read this past page and I think Gal/Rad town/town is above rand

Theres like 5 scenarios I imagine mutual paranoia going between S/S and T/S and "how would you react to that" and "we do this all the time so is this valid?" do not strike as scum dialogue

Also Bell townlean for healthy caution in the PT

Though in this case, the reason I pushed Toog is because they posted in thread that they were in a PT and that this implied that they were townie when there was no such indication.
I was uncomfortable with them implying that in thread as a request for a pass.

They also harbored zero doubt on my alignment. Asking me to summarize the game for them over the weekend.
It was weird. But not scummy weird. Just weird.

yeah no...i hate this post rather than just answering the queston with names.

I associate stoutly refusing to answer questions and being aggro like Penguin's done with Dunnstral here to be pretty town for him.

I think that this is a good point.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

it's more like i recently played a town game with him where he was certifiably insane, so i was sus at the start because there was a complete shift, but now he's at least returned to being erratic. it could be an intentional change after he was suspected for this reason tho

i guess i could look into whether he actually makes more sense as scum

I've watched him play scum

he made very little sense

[Dunnstral]

Dunnstral tried to discredit town reads on Bell (483)
Then he TR Enchant when almost her entire ISO is naked votes. He also gives a LAMIST comment of 'I'm not giving anyone a pass' (720)
Then comes his over explained vote on me. SR me for confusing flavour/alignment (I was second to do it he says, so what about first and 3rd, are they scum, too?) Why am I different to the other two? SR me for saying we shouldn't be flavour claiming - completely NAI post and I believe Luke seconds this(?) so again, what's different? Then adds in that I'm naked voting people even though he is TR Enchant who has spent the entire game doing so.

PEdit - @Dancing, I didn't mention meta in my read on Penguin. What are you talking about? I clearly stated what I didn't like about Penguin and it happened in this game.

@T-Bone - I was voting Penguin. Now I am voting Dunnstral.

It's hard to be unbiased but it does feel like you are pick and choosing things to justify your vote here. For instance, I already talked about the first person to do it. I ended up thinking they were town after all.

[Bell]

Malcolm gets "my username is just my first and last name" points (pls don't dox us)

Mal was uneasy about Pooky townreads really early

428 looks poignant.

@Bell

what makes you think Mal dies d1 a lot?

I like the pushback on t-Bones post restriction push

I don't like Mal +1ing frogs idea to just make them use all their words

Mal townreads dweelee for a pooky vote???

@Mal

state your beef w/Pookington

1. Misrecalled, I skimmed a few games with them in it and they always seemed to be getting pressured for style/grammar. It was an oppos, but it kind of had a maybe happy ending through Luke's identification.
But it could be totally wrong. their posting hasn't been great since.

I don't think there's a case to be made for scum Penguin in the same way that there isn't a way to case someone who has never posted.
It's the Dunnstral problem.

Why is my name here?

I think the way PenguinPower reassessed his read on Dunnstral was very natural and it happened in real time, which makes it less likely that it was faked

1175 -- PP still townreading Dunnstral here. Then Dunnstral posted his readlist, and PP took major issue with it:

Spoiler:

mmmm....x to doubt your [Dunnstrals'] null reads.

dunn is yellow now

Bell
Rad
Enchant
Dancing Puppets (Nancy Drew 39 and Titus)

hate this.

dunn is orange now.

(this is about Dunnstral's townreads btw)

When did Bell?

I think he's town but I recall you FoSing him somewhere.

~Titus

I think that the way they are treating me comes from town them. Calling out Toogeloo early in pt is towny. Their reads are believable. When they are scum they are more stilted.

PT? Who is in it?

My PT partner brought up the fact that they don't trust me, that I could be scum, and that I basically asked for a free pass through Day 1.

For those not in the know, I was involved in a head on collision last Friday night. My kids were in the car with me. I was ambulances to the ER, but thankfully my kids walked away with minor injuries.

I am doing some daily physical therapy and we are working with lawyers and insurance right now, and in my down time I am trying to relax and rest.

I don't anticipate this being problematic beyond this week, but if people feel I'm getting a pass, or need to replace out, I will.

---

I have not read anything other than my PT. I actually didn't consider the possibility that my partner might consider us unaligned. Based on my show knowledge, I actually would have thought us Masons if my PM didn't specifically call us neighbors.

My role is Shannon, my partner is Boone. We are in a PT called Kissing Siblings, which I don't recall them being incestual at all, lol.

At any rate, I will get to this eventually.

hey lovelies it's the beakiest bitch of them all

uh I only read this past page and I think Gal/Rad town/town is above rand

Theres like 5 scenarios I imagine mutual paranoia going between S/S and T/S and "how would you react to that" and "we do this all the time so is this valid?" do not strike as scum dialogue

Also Bell townlean for healthy caution in the PT

Though in this case, the reason I pushed Toog is because they posted in thread that they were in a PT and that this implied that they were townie when there was no such indication.
I was uncomfortable with them implying that in thread as a request for a pass.

They also harbored zero doubt on my alignment. Asking me to summarize the game for them over the weekend.
It was weird. But not scummy weird. Just weird.

yeah no...i hate this post rather than just answering the queston with names.

I associate stoutly refusing to answer questions and being aggro like Penguin's done with Dunnstral here to be pretty town for him.

I think that this is a good point.

You demand that people case you before they vote you when you haven't done anything so there's no evidence of anti-town intent or play.

@C&G, I've just had periods of restraint interspersed with periods of indecision and communication. My general mindset and approach haven't changed.

[Dunnstral]

You said Ceph was a counterwagon to BBT when clearly that wasn't happening. One wasn't in response to the other. If anything BBT and Ceph at different points were counterwagons to Frogster. That you read Frog as town doesn't really change things. It's plausible that Frog was simply in your Blindspot because of that read, but from an outsider looking in, if you are placing importance on the idea of counterwagons and then not applying them evenly it looks intentional to me.

I think arguing about counter wagons is a really weak point right now. There are 21 town and 5 mafia, town has the majority of control during the voting phase. It's normal for there to be multiple wagons on day 1 as the game plays out and we get a better idea of what we are thinking.

CSF, you said that you thought Mafia were doing a good job of blending in. I'm not sure that is the case; all we can wagon for right now is how people are acting. I believe there are some good points to be made for a number of players being town, and a bunch more who it is too early to tell. I believe mafia to be mainly in the second group and not the group most people think are town.

[Dunnstral]

You demand that people case you before they vote you when you haven't done anything so there's no evidence of anti-town intent or play.

I don't think that this is true at all.

[Bell]

You demand that people case you before they vote you when you haven't done anything so there's no evidence of anti-town intent or play.

I don't think that this is true at all.

Cool.

[Cephrir]

it's more like i recently played a town game with him where he was certifiably insane, so i was sus at the start because there was a complete shift, but now he's at least returned to being erratic. it could be an intentional change after he was suspected for this reason tho

i guess i could look into whether he actually makes more sense as scum

I've watched him play scum

he made very little sense

Well shit

[Dunnstral]

Also, did Dunnstral drop off the face of the earth or what happened there? You can answer this Dunnstral.
Are you bored or something?

Yeah kind of, and I've been preoccupied with doing other stuff. I think we need to start being more aggressive in general now and be more willing to vote for people, my opinions are not changing very much from new posts I am reading.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

it's more like i recently played a town game with him where he was certifiably insane, so i was sus at the start because there was a complete shift, but now he's at least returned to being erratic. it could be an intentional change after he was suspected for this reason tho

i guess i could look into whether he actually makes more sense as scum

I've watched him play scum

he made very little sense

Well shit

i mean he didnt make sense when i've watched him play town either

this is entirely new territory we're dealing with

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Dancing Puppets

Seems to make sense when focusing on the feedback from players I townread.

FYI the main opposition to scum!Puppets is coming from Dunn. I think CSF adequately addressed Dunn's reason for townreading Puppets.

On a personal level I'm not a fan of the way they are playing the past few pages. I don't think the way they are playing makes them more likely to be mafia, though.

[Dunnstral]

I think that NM has above average reads tbh

I've heard he has actually been doing a lot better than his previous meta.

I am amazed anyone can read lack of posts besides hammering

Has Not Mafia started to provide content?

Did anyone else catch this? I think Math is town.

~N

Not knowing the whole player list is not a town tell in any way

[Dunnstral]

Narrowing down my willing to vote list. Yes there are still 12 names here, no it doesn't mean I'm actively looking to lim you yet. I have just removed the other half of the player list from my consideration one way or another, and haven't had those aha moments for any of these players yet. I'm on the verge of removing a few more names.

Spoiler: WtV List

Dancing Puppets (Nancy Drew 39 and Titus)
Malakittens
PookyTheMagicalBear
MalcolmTucker
Off the Hook (Gamma Emerald and Marcistar)
Frogsterking
The toad
Enchant
Bellaphant
Klick
Cat Scratch Fever
PenguinPower

Malakittens
MalcolmTucker
The toad

For me off of that list

[MalcolmTucker]

I think there's a decent chance Luke v Math was TvT, didn't agree with Luke's push but get the impression it was made in relatively good faith.

Math's pushes after joining the game didn't seem particularly scummy to me - plenty of original thought in there and a willingness to explore new ideas and possible options.

[MalcolmTucker]

My strong TR on Rad from earlier in the game has softened significantly. Perhaps it's due to my SR on Dancing Puppets softening as the game goes on, but I thought Rad's post there was particularly weak.

I understand there's not always a clear direction of thought registered in the thread when your take on a player shifts, but Rad's game for me has largely been logic-driven to a degree and it's interesting they got very defensive when they were unable to point out exactly why they were scumreading Puppets.

In general I don't think Rad's posts over the past couple of days have been as strong as they were initially.

[Dunnstral]

Reasons I think that Corwin was scum:

Johnny, you had an earlier town read on Luke, do you still feel that way and why?

Yeah, they haven't done anything to disturb that halo on their head. You think I missed something?

Not necessarily. My notes are "Dislike Frog and Luke, feels like ~350ish is s/s [\n] JF TR Luke?" so I've just been meaning to ask about it. Something wasn't rubbing right around then, but I suspect a lot of you have a better feel for him as a player than I do.

The copy paste off of the notes.

The notes look non-useful. But also, they literally never responded to the comments about their notes. They said nothing, but also never mention anything off of their notes again.

I actually think that if they had defended their notes usage I would have felt better about this. But the non-response just felt like them hoping it would go away.

---

Only person listed in his lowest tier for scum in 1442 was Mala. But then also seemed annoyed that he was being scum read for lurking.

Both of those are...

fine

on their own, but taken together rub me the wrong way. Like, how can you not be understanding of those scum reads, if you think that the scummiest person in the game is someone that the only words you put towards why you scum read them was

mala who's been both low activity and low content when she is posting.

I think these are good points. I also brought up the notes in post 1355, and Corwinoid responded to my post:

Corwinoid - First 2 posts are a bit scummy, the v/la and family emergency stuff is dead null, the trouble engaging with the game is a bit more likely to be mafia than town in my opinion. And they have notes but still haven't really posted anything makes it look more showy than real.

It doesn't help that every time I get a break between work and family I show up to 10 more pages.

I'm a little concerned about how little of BBT we're seeing in this game. Both of the other games I've played with him he was pretty active. Makes that slot hard to read.

I still have a gap between pages 30 and 50 to catch up on (which I'll try to get through in the next few hours), but I feel like Bell's been looking for easy wagons to start on LA/VLA players, going from me to Toog to CSF, and I'm not sure what after that

I believe that BlueBloodedToffee said or made it seem like Corwinoid had a weird read on them based on past games played.

Mathblade feels frantic. I'm not sure what to make of that, or why they would be feeling that way. I do know that I am not seeing it as good content.

I said I wouldn't vote Corwinoid today because he was having family issues, but since he's replaced out I no longer have an issue with voting there.

VOTE: Mathblade

A thought that started unrelated to Corwin was thinking about the way that the scum team is apparently treating me. When pooky posted the reads list, and I apparently had 19 town reads and 0 scum reads, I realized that that meant that at some point the entire scum team decided that it was not worth it to fight the growing consensus that I am town.

Obviously, the scum team would not have thought that out the gate. Early on there were a couple of people saying that they are hesitant to town read me in general (pooky, Bella) and some people outright scum reading me (Galron, Rad, Frog).

So the scum team should have thought that there would be possible support against me at some point (unless the scum team is exactly Pooky, Bella, Galron, Rad, Frog lmao), but then at some point this game decided to abandon hope of keeping me from becoming truly consensus.

And when I read through Corwin's iso last night, I felt like I saw that when I looked at his progression on me.

I started to gather up town reads, and he started trying to poke into them with 1107/1114. Floating me as one of his only two voiced scum reads, floating me as a partner to a fairly widely scum read player, and trying to talk Johnny out of town reading me.

But then he was met with strong backlash about his comment about his notes.

And that discussion was completely and totally dropped.

The next time I show up in his iso, almost all of the other reads lists have come out showing how consensus town read I am, and then I am not a scum read in his Reads list of 1442. No comment on anything I did making him think that I was town, no interaction with me, nothing.

And when it was brought up that I was not on there, here was his response.

Aren't you the one who had me and frogster as S+S in your notes? What changed?

That was me. I'm feeling Frog even less; you've just kinda dropped off my radar right now.

He scum reads frog even harder then before, but he just stopped thinking about me.

Which did not jive for me with the fact that his earlier working theory was that we specifically looked partnered. Because if he thinks two players look partnered, and then thinks that one of them is getting even more scummy, I just don't feel like you forget about that other player. If anything, he should have been looking at me even more??

I'm not sure why Corwinoid would be specifically attacking you. You are right that they stopped talking about you, which I feel is a better point.

[Dunnstral]

Thank you for doing what your hydra partner couldn't!

I think that you are talking to the same person that you were having a problem with earlier.

[Bellaphant]

I do think Luke is town but I think their point about the reads list and their town reads to be a bit contrived, but I think that I'm just very wary of the lists being used in bad faith/I don't actually think anyone is 100% confident in their reads in a game this big.

I didn't get much from maths' posting, which is strange because last game with them I was adamant about them being town to a very unbella-like point of intransigence. My read on puppets flipped about three times in the last 15 pages, I think I need to iso them without the noise of the rest of the thread. From my recollection math is better at reading Titus than vice versa.

I disliked tbones elim list (at least half of it) but I'm wondering if I'm just never going to get into the same vibes as them.

Think I need to iso rad too. I thought their initial response to puppets was fine but then their tone shifted a bit in a way that felt new to me.

@pooky, are we meant to be updating our readlist periodically as a whole?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

@pooky, are we meant to be updating our readlist periodically as a whole?

you should always be updating your readlist as the game goes on and you can always catch me online to make changes if you want

i'm not like online 24 hours a day but you can usually find me at some point and make me update your readlist :3

[Dunnstral]

Math, why do you townread Cephrir? I thought his scumcase on Malcolm was meh, and the way the bolded was worded kind of rubs me the wrong way.

Spoiler:

Is there some question other than the quoted one that's being evaded here? It looks answered enough to me. This post feels to me like the conclusion ("I'm going to attack Roden now") came before the substance...

Roden can be interested in whatever he damn well feels like

And DNA hydra - what is there to townread there?

The intro wagon on him was really fast and it didn’t feel like a scum wagon.

In response to your DNA question

I’m Sun. You can figure it out from there. If you can’t I’ll consult with my inner voice to me more explicit.

I’d appreciate it if you backed off. It’s way too late at night for me to do a proper defense but I think y’all are capable of reading between the lines.

I’m Sun. You can figure it out from there. If you can’t I’ll consult with my inner voice to me more explicit.

My opinion on the Hydra posting restriction, is that if it is real he is likely in a neighborhood with Sun.

That would give the slot an outlet to talk as much as they waty, and a way to keep communicating after they have run out of words (Jin getting Sun to "translate" for him). We also know that there is at least 2 claimed neighborhoods at this point. Could be with Toog, or could be a 3rd hood.

Can you like back off please if you’re town?

It’s hard enough trying to read everything and relay the hood properly and catch up.

If you think I am scum push me tomorrow or the next day

It’s really destructive and unfun to push me right now.

I was really hoping you’d see what I was saying if you’re town and why I scumread you.

I should not have had to claim here.

Math is town. told all of you naysayers, now hopefully you will take my reads seriously. :)

Is the "told all of you naysayers " because he claimed his hood?

Because we have at least 6 players in hoods this game. Don't think that is an alignment indicative role tbh

It’s 100% not alignment confirming. I agree. It’s how I am playing it that is.

Why do you say at least 6 players have hoods? The game is bastard and the concept is people stranded.

I could see it possible scum can’t coordinate based on the lack of wagoning.

This isn't a convincing reason for me to not vote for you. I really don't think anything you could have done in a hood really makes you look town here, especially not if we're taking your word for it.

[Dunnstral]

I am noting that C & G put Corwin in their townreads when prompted.

[MalcolmTucker]

Spoiler:

How come all of the leading wagons in this game are really bad?

scum are either strong players or lurking imo

If ceph flips scum, this becomes a funny post lol

I feel like it's also the type of post that can quite feasibly come from good/experienced scum? A lot of the time you assume scum maybe don't want to draw any attention to what the makeup of their team could be, but in a big game like this making associatives can be hard and I can see scum being more willingly to openly comment on what the scumteam may be like, even if only to misdirect.

I think this is a clever take. Nice.

Pooky I got some updates:

Frogster => Town
Malcolm => Town
Corwin => Scum
OTH => Null

I can see why wagons sprung up, because you would expect someone who clearly has a reputation for being decent at this game to be a leader here, but this game is hard and I don't have much direction either. Yes this could be faked and they're clearly self aware, but i'm tempted to call this slot town.

My problem with Ceph right now is his post 929 where he claims he hasn't even started playing yet.

When will Ceph start playing? Has he started now? Why hadn't he started then?

Clearly Ceph isn't going to be a town leader. By choice. Is that scummy? I dunno but it feels anti-town, as does his post about me at 1493

Good stuff from Malcolm.

Bad stuff from Johnny.

Really? I was thinking the opposite.

What do you think of Ceph's 2301? I feel sort of convinced by it.

Good stuff from Malcolm.

Bad stuff from Johnny.

Really? I was thinking the opposite.

What do you think of Ceph's 2301? I feel sort of convinced by it.

What do you find particularly convincing? Worth noting my suspicion of Roden didn't come out of nowhere - I'd already been a bit unsure on the slot but their responses to Toad made me feel more confident they could be scum.

The whole post. All his points. Like, not convincing enough to move you from town to scum and vote you right here, but enough to make me want to reread your ISO (which I'll do when I get a chance, either tonight or tomorrow... going to a concert tonight so it'll be late if I do get a chance).

Some comments I wrote up while catching up.

Re 2368 Johnny - I'd not noticed Frog's posts you're referring to. Understandable reason to leave a SR alone for a while, I get that.

It's also AtE from Johnny to get players off his back.

How was it AtE? Genuinely not seeing it.

Johnny is well within his right to play this way if he would like to, I just believe it makes him a good candidate to get booted off the island first.

Ok but how does that make him scum?

Me, lukie, the Marci hydra, bbt, maybe pengy (even tho he’s evil and stole my PURRfect page top)

Got it, so whoever reads you as town is most likely not scum. Cause town reads are so reliable. Makes sense.

Bro

I was kidding about talking to the dead

Lmafo

I’m just unhappy I’m not Juliet

Also I have given some reads.

SO YOUR ATTITUDE CAN TAKE A HIKE OK

Yoooo Mala claim town readers, wtf now?

Re Rad, who I mentioned above I'm softening on TR wise, some of their progressions here I'm not keen on - it feels a bit unnatural and as if their view of certain players flipped entirely without much justification.

For a while they seemed to be agreeing with some of my points and had me down as town. At the same time they were largely scumreading Cephrir and didn't appear to particularly trust the slot. But it didn't take much for them to suddenly agree with Cephrir's scumread of me which led them to doing a bit of a 180.

There'd been some disagreements between Ceph/Roden on Saturday but that faded away a bit once Ceph turned their attention to me - Rad's sudden turn from suspecting Ceph to suspecting me doesn't feel particularly natural and strikes me as somewhat coordinated in light of that, as if they decided I was suddenly a better target from the POV of being scum as my reads developed.

[Lukewarm]

I'm not sure why Corwinoid would be specifically attacking you. You are right that they stopped talking about you, which I feel is a better point

The second half is the point that I was making there

[Lukewarm]

I do think Luke is town but I think their point about the reads list and their town reads to be a bit contrived, but I think that I'm just very wary of the lists being used in bad faith/I don't actually think anyone is 100% confident in their reads in a game this big.

What point about the reads list?

I don't expect anyone's reads to be 100% confident.

This paragraph confuses me