LOST (Game Over)

[Dancing Puppets]

Fwiw if I were to make the decision alone I would have picked mathblade

So why didn’t you? I wouldn’t be feeling so demoralized by losing one of my strongest trs.

Low confidence in my reads so I wanted some help. Some of the players i asked are better scumhunters than me

Apparently not the ones who picked Taly. People also had bleeding obvtown OtH in their PoE and even RCE! The most whack thing is anyone who’s seriously sr Drap.

[Dancing Puppets]

For combo we need Day 2 ended by Taly/Ceph elimination anyway.

We’re allowed to no lim, we don’t have to elim. I’m really starting to strongly agree that I was wrong about Ceph and this is very likely a TvT.

[Cephrir]

It is frustrating that this looks like it's going to work out so poorly

[Dancing Puppets]

Fwiw if I were to make the decision alone I would have picked mathblade

So why didn’t you? I wouldn’t be feeling so demoralized by losing one of my strongest trs.

Low confidence in my reads so I wanted some help. Some of the players i asked are better scumhunters than me

@Taly, I think this is a very townie post, so I’m coming along to thinking Pooky is 100% right irrespective of whatever Frog is.

[Taly]

@Dunn @Pooky what mech arguments are being made for Cephrir/Taly?

dunn hasnt done enough anti town shit today he's trying to gaslight me into thinking that yeeting taly!town is protown because he's happy to lose

I feel like I keep seeing posts from pooky and drap that act like my own view point is somehow invalid, or impossible for town to have. Which makes me completely disregard their arguments tbh.

Your opinion is absolutely valid, I want a rebuttal of my scumread on

Cpeh

, though.

i think Frogster spewed Taly/Ceph both town

How is Ceph spewed town?

cuz frogster is scum and his initial reaction to gladiate was to "sleep on the choice" which means he's thinking about which townflip puts him in a better position tommorrow.

@Taly, this is Pooky’s theory. But I think you will very likely die if we don’t no lim. :/

So you agree with

Pooky

on this?

There is a lot of math and scenarios on why KILLING YOURSELF is better then killing no one.

One example is that It affects how many protective have to land before the town is bought a miselim.

Like, right now a doctor saving one (1) player = an extra town miselim. If we no kill, then a doctor would have to save two (2) players to = an extra town miselim.

But also, info for looking back.

I agree with this and would rather selfvote than allow no lim to happen

i share the same opinion.

Both players on the chopping black have said that they would rather self vote then allow a no elim to happen.

It's still lost on me why you scumread me though,

Luke

.

I want people to justify their

Ceph

townread.

I still want this addressed. I'm failing to see the town perspective from

Ceph's

play here and a no elimination will resolve very little, and indirectly posits that

Ceph

is town.

Sure I'll answer your question.

I believe a town!Ceph recognized the game state was terrible for town. We're just spinning our wheels constantly in different directions with no real cohesion. We've got PRs announcing left and right and surely more to come with more new wagons. Many people were openly stating how long d1 is dragging on and how they hated it. Most people are stating that the game is too fast and they can't keep up, so most people aren't even reading the entire thread at this point and just coming to conclusions anyway because if they don't, people scum read them for it. So many people are being toxic as fuck and shouting at each other making no real progress on anything. I think town!Ceph decided enough was enough and got his top town reads to decide who should be eliminated and made his move.

Or a scum!Ceph I guess could be diverting attention from a frog or mala vote by putting himself in the crossfire and hoping we all come to the town!Ceph conclusion?

I gotta lean toward the more straight forward answer of town!Ceph.

That said, again, I'll vote ceph over taly here if I choose to vote because an any alignment ceph flip at least heals town and a town!Taly flip absolutely destroys it. I don't think we see a scum flip in either of the 2 options so I'd only go for that if I conclude that it's just the smarter town move due to "stats/theory reasons", or if I convince myself that this town needs a ceph flip to progress.

Why is my townflip more detrimental than

Ceph's

hypothetical townflip?

[Taly]

It is frustrating that this looks like it's going to work out so poorly

What was your intention?

[Cephrir]

It is frustrating that this looks like it's going to work out so poorly

What was your intention?

To end the day with an elimination that I felt had a solid chance of flipping scum. I still think there is a decent chance.

Nolim is a bad result

[Dancing Puppets]

It is frustrating that this looks like it's going to work out so poorly

I’m sorry I think I was wrong on you but I tend to sr people who I don’t think are pushing me for good reasons.

[Dancing Puppets]

It is frustrating that this looks like it's going to work out so poorly

What was your intention?

To end the day with an elimination that I felt had a solid chance of flipping scum. I still think there is a decent chance.

Nolim is a bad result

Nope, I know town!Taly and we are getting a townflip. I absolutely trust in Pooky’s judgement on this.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

It is frustrating that this looks like it's going to work out so poorly

mb you should've gotten 14 votes lined up before you activated your ability to eliminate our ability to vote

[Taly]

It is frustrating that this looks like it's going to work out so poorly

What was your intention?

To end the day with an elimination that I felt had a solid chance of flipping scum. I still think there is a decent chance.

Nolim is a bad result

You never digressed on your scumread of me though, from what I have seen. I only saw you mention it in your reads when it became easy to push me. This gladiate feels like an easy option to protect a scumbuddy or at the very least solidify a mislim.

Why did you feel so compelled to gladiate when there was only 3 viable options previously, where there was plenty of calls for consolidation?

What are your reads on

Mala

and

Frogs

?

[Cephrir]

It is frustrating that this looks like it's going to work out so poorly

mb you should've gotten 14 votes lined up before you activated your ability to eliminate our ability to vote

We had about 250 pages and never got past 7 votes on anyone

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

if someone wants to make the case that cephrir or taly is scum

then come make the case and i will listen and possibly vote for your preferred elimination.

but I will absolutely not vote for someone just because the other person is townier for ??? reasons because one person being town does not make the other person scum.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

It is frustrating that this looks like it's going to work out so poorly

mb you should've gotten 14 votes lined up before you activated your ability to eliminate our ability to vote

We had about 250 pages and never got past 7 votes on anyone

you still need to convince people to vote for the person you want to eliminate.

activating your ability is not going to magically change anyone's mind.

[Dancing Puppets]

Spoiler:

@Dunn @Pooky what mech arguments are being made for Cephrir/Taly?

dunn hasnt done enough anti town shit today he's trying to gaslight me into thinking that yeeting taly!town is protown because he's happy to lose

I feel like I keep seeing posts from pooky and drap that act like my own view point is somehow invalid, or impossible for town to have. Which makes me completely disregard their arguments tbh.

Your opinion is absolutely valid, I want a rebuttal of my scumread on

Cpeh

, though.

i think Frogster spewed Taly/Ceph both town

How is Ceph spewed town?

cuz frogster is scum and his initial reaction to gladiate was to "sleep on the choice" which means he's thinking about which townflip puts him in a better position tommorrow.

@Taly, this is Pooky’s theory. But I think you will very likely die if we don’t no lim. :/

So you agree with

Pooky

on this?

There is a lot of math and scenarios on why KILLING YOURSELF is better then killing no one.

One example is that It affects how many protective have to land before the town is bought a miselim.

Like, right now a doctor saving one (1) player = an extra town miselim. If we no kill, then a doctor would have to save two (2) players to = an extra town miselim.

But also, info for looking back.

I agree with this and would rather selfvote than allow no lim to happen

i share the same opinion.

Both players on the chopping black have said that they would rather self vote then allow a no elim to happen.

It's still lost on me why you scumread me though,

Luke

.

I want people to justify their

Ceph

townread.

I still want this addressed. I'm failing to see the town perspective from

Ceph's

play here and a no elimination will resolve very little, and indirectly posits that

Ceph

is town.

Sure I'll answer your question.

I believe a town!Ceph recognized the game state was terrible for town. We're just spinning our wheels constantly in different directions with no real cohesion. We've got PRs announcing left and right and surely more to come with more new wagons. Many people were openly stating how long d1 is dragging on and how they hated it. Most people are stating that the game is too fast and they can't keep up, so most people aren't even reading the entire thread at this point and just coming to conclusions anyway because if they don't, people scum read them for it. So many people are being toxic as fuck and shouting at each other making no real progress on anything. I think town!Ceph decided enough was enough and got his top town reads to decide who should be eliminated and made his move.

Or a scum!Ceph I guess could be diverting attention from a frog or mala vote by putting himself in the crossfire and hoping we all come to the town!Ceph conclusion?

I gotta lean toward the more straight forward answer of town!Ceph.

That said, again, I'll vote ceph over taly here if I choose to vote because an any alignment ceph flip at least heals town and a town!Taly flip absolutely destroys it. I don't think we see a scum flip in either of the 2 options so I'd only go for that if I conclude that it's just the smarter town move due to "stats/theory reasons", or if I convince myself that this town needs a ceph flip to progress.

Why is my townflip more detrimental than

Ceph's

hypothetical townflip?

Yes I think Pooky’s theory is extremely plausible.

[Cephrir]

It is frustrating that this looks like it's going to work out so poorly

What was your intention?

To end the day with an elimination that I felt had a solid chance of flipping scum. I still think there is a decent chance.

Nolim is a bad result

You never digressed on your scumread of me though, from what I have seen. I only saw you mention it in your reads when it became easy to push me. This gladiate feels like an easy option to protect a scumbuddy or at the very least solidify a mislim.

Why did you feel so compelled to gladiate when there was only 3 viable options previously, where there was plenty of calls for consolidation?

What are your reads on

Mala

and

Frogs

?

I was scumreading you because your entry post was needlessly affiliative/pockety and in general I never got the impression you were scumhunting.

Consolidation had been not happening for a long time and any argument that it was about to happen is not based in reality.

Mala- was town, but getting annoyed with her lack of presence
Frog- lean town but I'm not gonna fight pooky about it tomorrow since apparently we cant move on as a game until he is gone. I did not see it this way when I decided

[Cephrir]

It is frustrating that this looks like it's going to work out so poorly

mb you should've gotten 14 votes lined up before you activated your ability to eliminate our ability to vote

We had about 250 pages and never got past 7 votes on anyone

you still need to convince people to vote for the person you want to eliminate.

activating your ability is not going to magically change anyone's mind.

Eliminate me then

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

you're not going to convince me to eliminate you

[Taly]

hey lovelies it's the beakiest bitch of them all

uh I only read this past page and I think Gal/Rad town/town is above rand

Theres like 5 scenarios I imagine mutual paranoia going between S/S and T/S and "how would you react to that" and "we do this all the time so is this valid?" do not strike as scum dialogue

Also Bell townlean for healthy caution in the PT

Frogs, why is BBT likelier scum than Titus?

Luke, why did you consider Galron?

yay people are noticing me



as supreme toucan overlord, i demand tribute be paid in toucan sam gifs.

Taly is here! Hi Taly!

ooooh, give me homework bb, my wallpost days are a bit behind me,

me want conversation

Frogs, why is BBT likelier scum than Titus?

Luke, why did you consider Galron?

Among BBT or Dancing Puppets I'm not sure which is more likely to be a scum slot. I think the BBT slot is objectively scummy by looking at the iso, and the Dancing Puppets slot is just pinging me hard based on my own subjective experiences. Unless BBT starts posting more, there's a higher chance I'll turn around on my Dancing Puppets read, as I've done with Malcolm and Galron already. I think there's a slightly lower chance I turn around on the Dancing Puppets slot because my PoE is getting tighter.

i might have missed but i also inquired on why you townread the people on your wagon

*Back pats T-bone*
You're wrong try again.
Also hi Taly!

lets gossip in the PT doll

i demand

nancy/titus/gamma/galron/pooky/dwlee (when you recover bb)

acknowledge me, my inertia as a replacement is weak so i want to skip this phase ASAP

BBT

, was that

frog

vote just to counter the wagon further or is there reason behind the vote?

taly's besties

gamma:

passive vibes, especially from that

"hello taly"

post. I get the impression their mentality towards mafia has changed from last year where we played several games as opposing alignments. I missed their thought on

Titus

head in the skim and inquire on that.

marcistar:

I don't feel much depth to their questions or the opinions they've given, IE, skimming the hydra I don't know their reads well. I also see a lack of townreads despite the volume of people they're talking to.

OTH, vibe with me bbs<3

-townreads
-energy level/WIM
-memes

galron:

Coming from someone who has hydra'd with

Galron

before, I see nothing in

Galron's

ISO that's atypical. Doesn't like to give info about townreads but I am curious about

Klick

. What townpings is the consistency with

Rad

-town and

Frogs

-scum. I feel good about doubling down on my initial T/T read of

Gal/Rad

but I'd like to hear more from them about other slots. (Does "null" equal no thoughts or net neutral?) But I don't think that's very productive approach in sorting him this early in a large playerlist.

Galron

,

Frogs

PoE was 1000 posts ago, do you think their progression matches that original post?

titus:

TI

TU

S

I

EXI

ST

<3

. i declare myself a

titus

whisperer, my read on her is law.

nancy:

isn't mercilessly beating down players with scrutiny, so +town

ALSO HI NANCY <3

dwlee:

drowned out by the playerlist as expected, me want them around when they feel good i feel confident in my ability to sort them with some tea and lemon cakes.

dunn:

Much more active than scumgames I've seen of them and is attentive to how people respond to their roles and mechanics, which was different from how they approached a scumgame like Slaughter Hour. I'm not worried with this slot off their posts thus far. I'll be honest, this isn't an in-depth read specifically because

Dunn

is more active off first glance and so my initial ping is town, me no want to vote, me move on. I think someone voted

Dunn

? If so, I'd like to hear why.

pooky

poopy:

my strategy is to just meme until the vibe is off. me have done ugly TvTs and me have been fence-sitty T/T besties with this one. i dont have a strong first-hand perspective of their scumplay but their push for content is helpful in discerning a motive.

theMAFIAbear

, what do you get out of having the thread spew a readslist?

bell:

My focus is to parse the origin of their caution towards this slot and how that progresses to see if it comes from an informed perspective. So far I got townpings but I'm still thinking.

I just realized

Toog

has only posted twice and now I'm tilting my head at the suspicion there.

I'm failing to see the issue with

Toog's

413 since it's practically standalone, there was not much time for

Toog

to follow-up with his perspective before an accident (I hope he's okay ). And as a first post, the context of claiming role information and conflating it with alignment has a town motive in gauging reactions.

johnnyfarrar:

johnny

you prompted this from me, so thoughts?
rough feels of this group is that I'm still sorting but they're either null or townlean. which is interesting as that implies scum are players i am unfamiliar with.

i also have some familiarity with

ceph/penguin/mala/enchant

but nothing to construct much insight into them as a player.

Ceph

I'm trying to see what about my opening posts were needless. I replaced in with 1000 posts already made. Would a post-by-post catchup had been more feasible than real time discussion?

And what did you think about the discussion on

Frogs

slot during your gladiate decision?

[Dancing Puppets]

Doubling, tripling, quadrupling down on a no elim, I think both Taky and Ceph have towntold and limming either one just helps give scum one free miselim.

I’m not sure I’m completely sold on Frog being scum though but I think both Taly and Ceph have done enough to convince me that we’re going to be flipping a townie if we don’t vote no lim.

[T-Bone]

Oh I get you, in theory Bell should know cause neighbors.

No people who have actually had experience playing with Taly would know and I’m right on Taly!town.

I am well aware that you have completely different reads from me. You don't need to keep subtweeting me to tell me. You think I'm scum anyway, so let me have my fake reads in peace.

[Lukewarm]

It's still lost on me why you scumread me though, Luke.

I do not have a scum case on you. There is a reason why I was advocating a Frog elim over a Taly elim pre-gladiate.

And now that we are in the gladiate, it is more that I don't town read you, and I do town read Ceph.

You were vaguely low on my reads before, and you are being scum read by two of my stronger town reads : Bell and CSF. And that was enough for you to be an elim that was acceptable after I hit the : "if I don't town read you, your elim will not make me sad" wall like 100 ages ago.

After that, I did get town pings on the way that your claim came about, so I would not be surprised if you flipped either alignment tbh. But I would be incredibly surprised if Ceph flipped scum.

I am sure that from your POV, regardless of your alignment, that has to be an incredibly frustrating answer, and I am sorry for that.

[Cephrir]

Ceph I'm trying to see what about my opening posts were needless. I replaced in with 1000 posts already made. Would a post-by-post catchup had been more feasible than real time discussion?

And what did you think about the discussion on Frogs slot during your gladiate decision?

1580 was a post i did not like that started me down a path of suspecting you. i felt like the idea was to show up and address your friends to start the process of getting them on your side

i thought it was toxic and noisy and going to go just as nowhere as the last umpteen discussions, and i kinda buy that he really thought his claim was powertown, and i thought it should stop happening

[Cephrir]

the worst part of this is that the day is still going, but ending in nolim is close to equally tragic

[RCEnigma]

It’s insane that this is still going. Flip Taly, invest frogs, mala, johnny. Red on these narrows down who was defending who, and who is suspect for steering into Taly if they flip town.

Figure it out.