Mini Normal 2276: Around the World - Game Over!

[Datisi]

i think my issue here is that nobody instinctually makes sense as scum. like, johnny does, but like he doesn't strike me as a type of scum player to come up with the claim he did come up, yknow. unless he's scum with like, idk, ausuka or something. and i don't wanna think about that

would pooky put a mafia doctor voyeur in the game?

hmmm. the role would be a direct counter to std's vig (both target vanillas), but it could keep roden's target alive. AND it would act as a vanilla cop.

overall... i actually could see it happen, i guess? especially since the jailkeeper is a traitor, so they can't really coordiante their jalikeep well

[Ausuka]

Yeah i think i'm just going to pretend we're playing mountainous

I feel like the intent was to make the game impossible to guess, to punish outguessing the mod, but the endpoint is that there's tons of mechanical fluff and in the end power roles just aren't helpful for town lots of the time and the game is massively swingy. idk

[Alexcellent]

You know what, this may be controversial but I'm actually inclined to town just leave corwin for today. He did mention some rl shit in the newbie and like....if he's scum, we don't need to sort it today.

I'm soft, though.

scum post
VOTE: bellaphant

nah bella scumclaimed
I caught a grammatical error that indicates she backtracked on calling Corwin town and instead opted to just say she was leaving him alone for today

You know what, this may be controversial but I'm actually inclined to town just leave corwin for today. He did mention some rl shit in the newbie and like....if he's scum, we don't need to sort it today.

I'm soft, though.

scum post
VOTE: bellaphant

Does Corwin buddy up Bella right away if they're both scum?

don't think they're both scum if I'm right
scum would be more likely to backtrack calling someone town if they wanted to keep them as a misyeet for later

the issue is the TYPE of error
why did you backtrack that thought of Corwin being town?

I didn't. Town clearly doesn't belong in that post. When I type to into my phone, the middle option comes up as town. I just wrote 'to' twice and it autocorrected.

I get what you are saying, but that sentence would have to end very differently for it to make sense? I hadn't said they were town before, so why would I be inclined to leave corwin as 'town', if I was scum? If not only have had to write nonsense, but to....lie about a read I'd been really clear on and provided evidence for?

If I was scum and the sentence ended 'town bin' or whatever, what's my motivation for even posting?

okay
VOTE: Corwinoid

Wouldn't mind opinions on this progression. This is from D1, Gamma was voting Corwin and then he jumps onto Bella for a grammatical thing. An hour later moves back to Corwin.
The thought crossed my mind that maybe it's scum!Gamma just wanting to get off the Corwin wagon realising maybe Corwin is likely the traitor? But overall it does have an organic "I found a scumslip!" feel to it. Kind of think if scum wanted off the Corwin wagon, they'd come up with something else? This just feels like a weird little detour from Corwin to Bella for scum to make.

[Ausuka]

I mean i also thought that was towny at the time but it's possible it was just scum gamma seeing an opening to make a push and deciding to take it? I don't think scum always, like, overthink their actions

[Alexcellent]

I guess so.

Game is hard.

[Ausuka]

yeah, i do see where you're coming from and i think it's +town for gamma but i think there are more reasons to be suspicious?

did you think my reasons for voting gamma made sense?

[Gamma Emerald]

Ok fuck it we need wagons and I like this

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

I *really* don't like his progression on me - the focus on the me/bella read was super weird. he used it to shade us both, saying that one of us must be scum because we were 'buddying' each other. i haven't heard any sort of convincing reasoning as to why this might be and it seems like a massive stretch of a read, but one that would be quite useful to scum Gamma. it's similar to what he did pushing both crescent and shoshin early game.

I also think he's deliberately excusing this behaviour which advances scum wincon using self-meta. He brings up in 1772 that as scum he wouldn't use fence-sitting because it's against his meta. He also brought this up earlier in 574; he's clearly very aware of his 'scum meta' and I think is intentionally breaking it and then telling everyone he should be townread for that.

I still think Marci is town here but I’m not interested in fighting basically the entire player list so instead you clowns can do whatever and I’ll say I told you so tomorrow

This post pings me too

that's l2 probably idk

I could explain the reason for that post you quoted but I also did so much earlier and idc to repeat myself rn

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Ausuka
Something just clicked for me, I’m 100% on this read. Not that I expect to get him voted out but fuck it, legacy vote.

[Alexcellent]

VOTE: Ausuka
Something just clicked for me, I’m 100% on this read. Not that I expect to get him voted out but fuck it, legacy vote.

[Alexcellent]

yeah, i do see where you're coming from and i think it's +town for gamma but i think there are more reasons to be suspicious?

did you think my reasons for voting gamma made sense?

Sort of. I think you have some points but I don't think any is like a smoking gun or anything. But the 839 you quoted does look bad.

Do you have much meta with Gamma?

VOTE: gamma

meh

someone convince me it's not gamma/marci i guess

How about the fact that leaves 2 fucking VTs when typically in my exp the minimum tends to range out at 4
Turn on your fucking brain asshole

^ is this sort of tone normal or alignment indicative for him at all? I've seen a few pretty snappy and defensive posts. That's not always AI though.

It did strike me when Gamma was complaining about the setup and review mod that it just felt weird. Like he's simultaneously bought the PR claims and is angry at the set up but also trying to fight the legitimacy of the claims.
It's hypocritical of me though since I'm sceptical about Datisi and Johnny's claims myself. But I think that does give more weight to the idea of Marci/Gamma being the team.

[Ausuka]

I think the tone is normal for Gamma from what I remember. I don't think it's AI particularly

[Datisi]

gamma has made such posts towards me both as town and as scum, can confirm

[Alexcellent]

@Gamma, what's your case on Ausuka? And why do you think Johnny's alignment is related to Corwin's flip?

[Gamma Emerald]

There’s a particular reason I have strong feelings on this setup but I can’t really explain in a way that’d make sense. Otherwise, I am mostly just taking a stand because I feel like person-who-will-remain-unnamed probably has had historically good criticism of mastina setups but it’s never sank in for anyone because he’s the one saying it. Hopefully my voice while enact some recognition that mastina sucks at making normal games feel “normal”.

[Gamma Emerald]

@Gamma, what's your case on Ausuka? And why do you think Johnny's alignment is related to Corwin's flip?

I think Ausuka has been buddying not one but two townies: Bella and Datisi. I realized the Datisi part more recently via checking VCs, and seeing Ausuka and Datisi side-by-side on a LOT of them. Now, in my experience, this is NOT something scum partners regularly execute; instead if one part of this pair is scum the other is just agency captured town.
As for Corwin’s flip impacting Johnny, I heavily doubt scum have both a Doctor and JK on the team. That would make the vigs near-useless. I have a baseline for this from a review of a large normal I designed so I can refer to that if needed. I also think his role has to exist since otherwise some other scum role had to have interfered with STD’s shot.

[Ausuka]

can you elaborate on how I've been buddying datisi beyond us voting together on a few wagons? the Bella buddying accusation also just seems like total nonsense, you've been pushing our slots as connected since day 1 for basically zero reason and now Bella's been miselimmed you're using it to push me.

[Alexcellent]

Kinda feel that TBH I don't really expect these kinds of roles in a 'normal' game but maybe that's sour grapes on my part. They're all normal in the wiki so it's fair game, I guess.


I don't think Ausuka is scum. Or rather, only way I think Ausuka can be scum is if they're a mafia mailman and lied about the miller part, or it's Ausuka/Freedom. Which, either way, GG? Regardless of what Ausuka's claimed though I feel like their entire play up until now has been crazy pro-town and it's so hard to fake a lot of that content IMO.

I'd be open to a discussion on why there's an ascetic miller mailman in a game that doesn't appear to have a cop. Have we discussed that yet and I missed it? Is the implication that there's a mafia cop? Or is it just a troll role?

P-Edit: I have noticed that one tends to follow the other and they seem very on the same page a lot. You don't think that it could be the other way though? And it's scum!Datisi buddying to town!Ausuka?

[Alexcellent]

@Gamma, what's your case on Ausuka? And why do you think Johnny's alignment is related to Corwin's flip?

As for Corwin’s flip impacting Johnny, I heavily doubt scum have both a Doctor and JK on the team. That would make the vigs near-useless. I have a baseline for this from a review of a large normal I designed so I can refer to that if needed. I also think his role has to exist since otherwise some other scum role had to have interfered with STD’s shot.

Okay I follow now... I think it's possible though that Johnny just made it up and could be some other form of scum PR maybe.
But yeah I don't know.

It's been a long time since we've heard from Johnny, still waiting on them results.

[Ausuka]

I think miller doesn't make sense on an ascetic either way. It's a troll role. Sometimes modifiers and complicated roles are designed to be somehow elegant in normal setups, but sometimes in games like this I'm convinced the setup is just like, meant to troll the players to whatever extent possible. If there's a design intent there I'm not seeing it.

[Ausuka]

I have noticed that one tends to follow the other and they seem very on the same page a lot.

I mean I've made it clear I don't really townread Dats and at points I have worried about buddying, but at the same time I think I'd somewhat expect this from town him? We're friends and I think that we think pretty similarly?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

vote count 3.02

with 8 votes in play, it takes 5 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-07-25 03:00:00).

yeet

Gamma Emerald[3]:

Datisi, marcistar, Ausuka

Ausuka[1]:

Gamma Emerald

not voting [4]:

Alexellent, JohnnyFarrar, Scamper, Freedom

flavor

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't think Ausuka is scum. Or rather, only way I think Ausuka can be scum is if they're a mafia mailman and lied about the miller part, or it's Ausuka/Freedom. Which, either way, GG? Regardless of what Ausuka's claimed though I feel like their entire play up until now has been crazy pro-town and it's so hard to fake a lot of that content IMO.

How has his play been "crazy pro-town"?
Also I accused Ausuka over Datisi because I had previous thought Ausuka was possibly buddying Bella. So given one charge of buddying or two, I'm gonna suspect the person with 2.

[Ausuka]

That doesn't seem even close to a "100%" read

[Gamma Emerald]

It's hard to explain in a way that effectively conveys the confidence in it but multiple points make me feel that strongly.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Ok ya confirming scamper is vanilla. Was hoping to protect