Micro 1059: Micro & Normal Stuff | GAME OVER

[Ausuka]

This post is important

I would probably be switching my vote to Don here but I think they're at E-2 already and it seems a little twisted to put them at E-1 for suggesting that we put someone else at E-1. It does feel like they're kind of all over the place and I struggle to see a consistent town mindset. That makes me think they could be intentionally trying to look like the town they describe as "playing however they want". The issue is that I don't understand the motivations behind anything they're doing, so it just feels random for the sake of chaos.

Here is an attempt to soft buddy me. Coral knows i am under fire, and by saying they wont vote for me theres an attempt here. Of course by saying they're still suspicious of me there is no concrete stance taken here. What they are doing is to signal to me "everyone suspects you, but i can be open minded". And as scum, they know i'm town, and would want to leave a positive impression on me without going too hard on buddying.

Ok, but why is this possibility probable compared to Coral just not wanting to put you at L1 so early? I don't think you not liking her refusing to L1 you was unpredictable and I think if you're trying to buddy someone falling them 'all over the place' is likely to be counterproductive. Basically I don't understand your thought process here

Coral

I see her point for not wanting to put Don at E-1 but I do think it's also an easy excuse for not wanting to take a stance, as Don implied. I really don't like the reasoning behind the 180 on Aristeia. The tone in her posts seems genuine, though, and I don't thing she's faking it. Still, I tend to read people by their actions more than by their tone, so:

Coral - scumlean

Xayah

I didn't think much of the accusation against Ausuka early in the game, but given that Xayah later admitted herself that she SR-ed Ausuka for that and that she stands by it, it rubs me the wrong way. I'm tempted to believe that Xayah doubling down on her SR on Ausuka based on Ausuka's first posts is town-indicative because it could be easier from a scum!Xayah POV to just say that it wasn't a push. Though as I mentioned in a previous post, that begs the question if it wasn't meant to be a push, why bother in the first place? So Xayah backing down here wouldn't raise less questions that her doubling down on her Ausuka SR, IMO, so I still think scum!Xayah is a definite possibility. I also echo what Scamper said in 130. The vote on Meg is strange as well.

Xayah - scumlean

I think I'm more confident in my Xayah scumlean as of now.

VOTE: Xayah

I think I understand your townreads but both of the scumreads confuse me.

If you can see her point for not wanting to E-1 Done, why do you scumread it? Like, you bring up the possibility that she could just be using it to shirk responsibility but never explain why that's likely when you acknowledge a very reasonable town motivation. The rest of the read is fine although I'd like an explanation as to why her 180 on Ari was bad, I thought it was mildly town.

The read on Xayah feels scummy because I think the uncertainty feels kind of excessive and performative. Like, you spend most of this post talking about something which seems to be NAI at worst for Xayah by your own account, and I think it's still not super clear why you're scumreading Xayah here. I'll be the first to say all of Xayah's interactions with me are baffling but I'd like to hear why you think it's scum motivated?

[Ausuka]

reading along the first half of page 6, i am not sure i get either coral or xayah votes.

it's like. i think coral's reason for switching off aristeia is *fine*, and i understand what she was trying to say when she said "tunnelled". maybe it's not the traditional use of that word, but it seemed obvious to me it was meant as "pho is only focusing here" rather than "pho is trying to fuckign murder ausuka". i don't really agree that that's townie, but. the "i changed my mind and ari is town!" did feel a bit ~performative~ to me, but i think performative-scum would've put more effort in than just saying "ye lol idk gut".

also yes i hate xayah misreps of ausuka. but i also don't think they're scummy because i struggle to see what is scum!xayah trying to achieve there. like, she's not pushing ausuka. she keeps insisting ausuka had an overblown reaction despite the entire game telling her otherwise. the only scum motivation i see here is wifom trying to purposefully go against the thread and like idk.

I agree with this I think

I like datisi and coral, Xayah is more around the nullish area for me rn

[Donempire]

I feel fine enough about most people in the thread that they've given me enough to work with minus Meg and Ari so I will continue voting them until further notice

I am not sure this method of scumhunting is very fruitful

I agree with this. Pressuring the inactive players might give us one post from them, and then we'd be back to waiting. It might be more usefull to do back and forth with the active players instead of prodding the inactive players for their one post of the day.

[Xayah]

I have nothing to really ask at the moment but I understand what you're saying. If I asked random questions it would just be for the sake of it.

[Donempire]

i didnt express a read on coral either. but i'll be clear to avoid confusion, i lean scum on her. i think she's playing overly safe.

as for scamper , he doesnt bring up any new points himself. his playstyle seems reactionary and too safe. I don't like it.

dont have a read on anyone else. games too slow

i dont know what you mean by "not bringing up new points", i feel like i've had original thoughts, and i dont think ive been playing it particularly safe with how ive been approaching people. you can call it "reactionary" ig, but that's just bcause i prefer to wait and observe until something catches my attention

But that is what i am saying. I'm not saying you have unoriginal comments. You wait for someone else to push or do something and then comment on it, you never start a discussion yourself. Not to say questioning others is bad, but if its the only thing you are doing then theres nothing to analyze you by. Like you said, you are simply observing the conversation, that makes you hard to read and slows down the tempo.

As for the safety of your comments, you have been very distanced. No hard stances, no serious pushes. You are playing it safe.

[Donempire]

it's like. i think coral's reason for switching off aristeia is *fine*

what
This is coral's reasoning for her vote switch:

It was a very gut-based reasoning initially, and a gut-based reasoning changed my mind as well. I was looking at the playerlist and found myself thinking a lot of the people posting felt town to me, and she felt slightly off, so I voted there to see what happened.

Then, when reviewing her ISO, I was reminded of 29, and something about it to me just feels like a very town response for her to give. I know it's basically an RVS nothing-post, but it is what changed my mind, so that's what you get!

Post she is talking about:

scamper is too cute to vote tho >___>

So her reasoning for the ari vote is a gut read, and the reason she got off the wagon is another gut lean. Even in 127 she says that this is a nothing reason to change her to vote, so i dont understand what part of this vote switch is fine?

[Irrelephant11]

Ph0enix has requested replacement. Searching for one now.

[Coral]

This feels like, entirely based on self projection based meta on "I would expect X to do Y but because they're doing Z they're town." If you're always in this kind of mindset it doesn't help you catch mafia it helps people know how to play around you and I can't tell if this kind of thinking is good or not.

We're 8 pages into the game. With competent players (and I think everyone here is at least a step or two above competent), figuring out how to catch people as scum at this point in the game is kind of a crapshoot. My early reads may not stick around forever, but we have to start somewhere. I would be excited to hear if you have a better method of catching scum than looking at the actions people take and trying to predict if they are more likely to be taken as scum or as town!

I find that my methods are the most fun for me, and they work well enough for me to believe in them

What's wrong with hedge?

It's not that there's anything inherently wrong, but the manner in which you did it feels awkward. In one sentence you express 3 different opinions on Phoenix:

"I think Phoenix is fine (now do they deserve the amount of TR's they have that's another topic) but I disagree with this being a reason to TR them"

. It feels like you are defending Phoenix, while also scrutinizing reasons for TRing them, while also misreading the gamestate as overly townreading them, while also vaguely criticizing all of those TRs (which don't exist) without going into why.

In the second post:

Hm, alright I'm willing to go along with this read for now. I didn't really catch on how much Pho was becoming a common wolfread. But they're not really in my "I would vote today" tier anyway."

, you accept my townread, accept that they are being scumread more than you realized, and then for some reason feel the need to emphasize that you don't actually want to vote them?

It feels over-explained, I guess. Like you feel some need to make sure you have the right thoughts put out there on this slot even if they don't quite fit into the context of what's being discussed. My instinctive reaction is actually that it feels partnered, but I'm not really sure if I buy into that, so for now I'll just stick with thinking that it feels off.

[Coral]

That's because it kind of was! I felt a town vibe first and then tried to figure out where it was coming from after. I'm not terribly convinced it was a great reason, but it was fun to explore!

As town my mind is often a jumble of mixed-up thoughts and feelings. As scum I take care to express my thoughts clearly, which is easy to do because they're fake, and have clean and planned-out progressions. I wouldn't ever have reason to express a thought that I wasn't already confident I could state in a cohesive way and back up later, unless maybe put on the spot by pressure and I need to come up with a read on a partner. I think that's one of my weaknesses.

ok....i'm not really sure this changes my view, though

Okay. What about 123? What do you think is my mindset or motivation behind making that post as scum? Can you explain more where the feeling of "off" is coming from, and why that's more likely to come from scum?

[Galron]

Who are we killing?

[Irrelephant11]

Galron replaces Ph0enix! Please welcome them!

[Aristeia]

Hi Galron!

[Ausuka]

Who are we killing?

You

[Galron]

aristeia town
ausuka maf

no problem

[Galron]

UNVOTE:

[scamper]

i didnt express a read on coral either. but i'll be clear to avoid confusion, i lean scum on her. i think she's playing overly safe.

as for scamper , he doesnt bring up any new points himself. his playstyle seems reactionary and too safe. I don't like it.

dont have a read on anyone else. games too slow

i dont know what you mean by "not bringing up new points", i feel like i've had original thoughts, and i dont think ive been playing it particularly safe with how ive been approaching people. you can call it "reactionary" ig, but that's just bcause i prefer to wait and observe until something catches my attention

But that is what i am saying. I'm not saying you have unoriginal comments. You wait for someone else to push or do something and then comment on it, you never start a discussion yourself. Not to say questioning others is bad, but if its the only thing you are doing then theres nothing to analyze you by. Like you said, you are simply observing the conversation, that makes you hard to read and slows down the tempo.

As for the safety of your comments, you have been very distanced. No hard stances, no serious pushes. You are playing it safe.

i don't think anything right now merits a hard stance or a serious push, though

i can't manufacture opinions i don't have

[scamper]

That's because it kind of was! I felt a town vibe first and then tried to figure out where it was coming from after. I'm not terribly convinced it was a great reason, but it was fun to explore!

As town my mind is often a jumble of mixed-up thoughts and feelings. As scum I take care to express my thoughts clearly, which is easy to do because they're fake, and have clean and planned-out progressions. I wouldn't ever have reason to express a thought that I wasn't already confident I could state in a cohesive way and back up later, unless maybe put on the spot by pressure and I need to come up with a read on a partner. I think that's one of my weaknesses.

ok....i'm not really sure this changes my view, though

Okay. What about 123? What do you think is my mindset or motivation behind making that post as scum? Can you explain more where the feeling of "off" is coming from, and why that's more likely to come from scum?

it feels like it's adding to the suspicion on Don but in an overexplain-y way to justify it and the suggestion he's intentionally playing chaotically feels a bit far-fetched for it to be an actual thought

[MegAzumarill]

aristeia town
ausuka maf

no problem

more content would be appreciated

[MegAzumarill]

perhaps elaborate

[Donempire]

aristeia town
ausuka maf

no problem

more content would be appreciated

[Donempire]

i don't think anything right now merits a hard stance or a serious push, though

i can't manufacture opinions i don't have

You make the pushes yourself, thats my point. Like this:
VOTE: Scamper
And this is a serious wagon.

[Donempire]

Remember how i said we needed someone on L-1? The one being wagoned is a factor in contributing to discussion, but so is everyone else on the wagon. Once the wagon disperses, there will be many posts to retroactively read , at least 4 vote posts for example. That way with a simple shitwagon in rvs you end up forcing 5 people to participate! You end up with someone who is a hard read by most of the town, lots of posts to investigate, maybe a claim.
Now that i said this, lolwagoning scamper probably wont have the same effect. But i can still make a solid case against scamper, and you can read my case, agree with me and bandwagon scamper. We receive the benefits i mentioned without any drawbacks!
So, i havent made my case yet, and i wont until i wake up, but the sooner everyone wagons scamper, the faster this game will run

[scamper]

i don't think anything right now merits a hard stance or a serious push, though

i can't manufacture opinions i don't have

You make the pushes yourself, thats my point. Like this:
VOTE: Scamper
And this is a serious wagon.

Remember how i said we needed someone on L-1? The one being wagoned is a factor in contributing to discussion, but so is everyone else on the wagon. Once the wagon disperses, there will be many posts to retroactively read , at least 4 vote posts for example. That way with a simple shitwagon in rvs you end up forcing 5 people to participate! You end up with someone who is a hard read by most of the town, lots of posts to investigate, maybe a claim.
Now that i said this, lolwagoning scamper probably wont have the same effect. But i can still make a solid case against scamper, and you can read my case, agree with me and bandwagon scamper. We receive the benefits i mentioned without any drawbacks!
So, i havent made my case yet, and i wont until i wake up, but the sooner everyone wagons scamper, the faster this game will run

i could make a push if i wanted to, i just dont. i'm not going to, like, fake confidence or be over-aggressive cuz more often than not that leads to misunderstandings. i've already said i've found a good number of people sus and explained why, i'm going to solve in the way i prefer to regardless of whether you like it or not

i'm not sure what ur hoping to get out of me by doing this exactly...

[scamper]

(i also dont think your playstyle as you describe it is actually likely to produce good reads but thats not a debate i want to get too deep into)

[Coral]

hmm

If you had asked me closer to the start of the game for a scamper wagon, I would have been on board. Now... maybe the cute avatar has worked its magic on me already too, but I'm not as interested anymore. The things that you think are scumtells here I think are, if anything, closer to towntells.