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Post Post #11025 (ISO) » Fri Jul 29, 2022 3:26 pm

Post by Rad »

In post 11019, Lukewarm wrote:
In post 11014, Rad wrote:Yo Luke, I literally got the Math wagon rolling. Town stalled like fuck and I wrote my 9443 parody post that got town all ramped up to flip scum You're welcome!
You were not even voting Math at the time that you wrote 9443? And your cases against the other people were noticeably sharper.

Kinda hard to give you credit for the math wagon my friend.
LOL try again
In post 9453, butterchurn wrote:From what I've read so far, of the options in in order of how much I want to vote, I would go with MathBlade, then BBT, then C&G, then Malcolm. I don't really think this game needs another loud leader at this time so I think it's probably most useful for me to be an added vote to help whatever townblock there is push in the direction that seems best. And hopefully to provide a fresh perspective at times.

I would specifically not like to vote for any of the following at this time:
- Roden (obviously)
- Rad
- Dancing Puppets
- Cat Scratch Fever
- PookyTheMagicalBear
- Lukewarm
- Bell
- Mislim Bait
- Bellaphant
- T-Bone

The others I either haven't read enough of their posts, I would be open to the possibility of someone convincing me that they're scum, or I would gladly vote for them.

VOTE: MathBlade
Credits 9443 and calls me a loud leader :)
In post 9454, Cat Scratch Fever wrote:
In post 9443, Rad wrote: I'll just wait here and vote with town when town's ready so let's go town, let's vote out the scum!
VOTE: MathBlade

I'm not sure how/why the BBT wagon stalled/dissipated, as they haven't been particularly towny. But I'm also happy to move back to MathBlade, since I TR everyone on that wagon

C&G is in my "would vote" pool. But I feel like a lot of my null/scumleans are voting there, which makes me feel bleh about it

I'm not feeling Mislim's scumcase on Malcolm
Quotes me :)
In post 9462, MalcolmTucker wrote:VOTE: MathBlade

I'll accept this, don't feel like we'll go anywhere else and I think there's a decent chance of catching scum.
Jumps on board cause momentum.
In post 9475, Rad wrote:Alright Math it is!

VOTE: Math
Here we go!
In post 9491, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:VOTE: Mathblade

chooo choo choo
Totally unrelated right?
In post 9493, Best Bird wrote:ok then

VOTE: mathblade
Yup not momentum based at all.
In post 9497, Off The Hook wrote:VOTE: mathblade

i thought i was already voting here wtf
Even OTH wants in cause wtf why are they not voting Math already!
In post 9500, Bellaphant wrote:VOTE: mathblade
Bella HAMMER LOL
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Post Post #11026 (ISO) » Fri Jul 29, 2022 3:27 pm

Post by Rad »

In post 11023, Cytosine and Guanine wrote:6 - Thursday
9 - Thursday
12 - Friday
18 - Saturday
24 - Saturday

I do not wish to go in more specificity.
~Cytosine
Sorry C&G wrong answer. I don't see why you wouldn't just give us dates and times so I could go verify that what was said matches with the state of the game at the time.
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Post Post #11027 (ISO) » Fri Jul 29, 2022 3:28 pm

Post by Rad »

In post 11024, RCEnigma wrote:
In post 11019, Lukewarm wrote:
In post 11014, Rad wrote:Yo Luke, I literally got the Math wagon rolling. Town stalled like fuck and I wrote my 9443 parody post that got town all ramped up to flip scum You're welcome!
You were not even voting Math at the time that you wrote 9443? And your cases against the other people were noticeably sharper.

Kinda hard to give you credit for the math wagon my friend.
I have this issue as well Rad. Like….town “stalled” on math (which is also misleading) because you and others started a C&G counterwagon.
You mean because C&G was scummy as hell and deserved a wagon?

Tell me I didn't jumpstart Math wagon.
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Post Post #11028 (ISO) » Fri Jul 29, 2022 3:29 pm

Post by Best Bird »

I mean - c&g explicitly said why….weird press
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Post Post #11029 (ISO) » Fri Jul 29, 2022 3:29 pm

Post by Cytosine and Guanine »

In post 11026, Rad wrote:
In post 11023, Cytosine and Guanine wrote:6 - Thursday
9 - Thursday
12 - Friday
18 - Saturday
24 - Saturday

I do not wish to go in more specificity.
~Cytosine
Sorry C&G wrong answer. I don't see why you wouldn't just give us dates and times so I could go verify that what was said matches with the state of the game at the time.
It's a site rule.
~Cytosine
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Post Post #11030 (ISO) » Fri Jul 29, 2022 3:29 pm

Post by Lukewarm »

There is a difference between what happened after your summary (the math wagon reaching hammer), and your intent behind your summary.

And there is only one that matters for your alignment.

There is nothing from that summary that makes me think, that you think, making that post will lead to a dead Math. Regardless of your alignment. Especially since you were not voting math at the time.
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Post Post #11031 (ISO) » Fri Jul 29, 2022 3:33 pm

Post by Rad »

In post 11029, Cytosine and Guanine wrote:
In post 11026, Rad wrote:
In post 11023, Cytosine and Guanine wrote:6 - Thursday
9 - Thursday
12 - Friday
18 - Saturday
24 - Saturday

I do not wish to go in more specificity.
~Cytosine
Sorry C&G wrong answer. I don't see why you wouldn't just give us dates and times so I could go verify that what was said matches with the state of the game at the time.
It's a site rule.
~Cytosine
Is it? :facepalm: Sorry then. I thought since it was specifically game related, it was ok to ask.
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Post Post #11032 (ISO) » Fri Jul 29, 2022 3:35 pm

Post by Rad »

In post 11030, Lukewarm wrote:There is a difference between what happened after your summary (the math wagon reaching hammer), and your intent behind your summary.

And there is only one that matters for your alignment.

There is nothing from that summary that makes me think, that you think, making that post will lead to a dead Math. Regardless of your alignment. Especially since you were not voting math at the time.
Oh don't get me wrong. I wasn't intending to specifically flip math with that. I just picked the top 4 realistic wagons. I actually had a town lean on BBT there and wrote him up anyway. I had scum leans on everyone else. But I saw town stalling and wanted to push things forward, and I believe it was successful at that.
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Post Post #11033 (ISO) » Fri Jul 29, 2022 3:35 pm

Post by Lukewarm »

Like, are you seriously arguing that people should think that you cannot be partnered with Math, because you made a post where you outlined the top 4 wagons (one of which happened to be Math).

Because, to be clear, your post gives big "one of which happen to be Math" energy.

If you want to argue that your post was the catalyst for some of the people to vote math, then sure. But that speaks more on those people. The people who looked at the 4, and when given those 4 options made a choice. Then it does about the person who made the list of 4 people.
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Post Post #11034 (ISO) » Fri Jul 29, 2022 3:35 pm

Post by Rad »

In post 11031, Rad wrote:
In post 11029, Cytosine and Guanine wrote:
In post 11026, Rad wrote:
In post 11023, Cytosine and Guanine wrote:6 - Thursday
9 - Thursday
12 - Friday
18 - Saturday
24 - Saturday

I do not wish to go in more specificity.
~Cytosine
Sorry C&G wrong answer. I don't see why you wouldn't just give us dates and times so I could go verify that what was said matches with the state of the game at the time.
It's a site rule.
~Cytosine
Is it? :facepalm: Sorry then. I thought since it was specifically game related, it was ok to ask.
Thank you for answering as much as you did then and sorry for asking a question I shouldn't have.
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Post Post #11035 (ISO) » Fri Jul 29, 2022 3:37 pm

Post by Lukewarm »

In post 11032, Rad wrote:
In post 11030, Lukewarm wrote:There is a difference between what happened after your summary (the math wagon reaching hammer), and your intent behind your summary.

And there is only one that matters for your alignment.

There is nothing from that summary that makes me think, that you think, making that post will lead to a dead Math. Regardless of your alignment. Especially since you were not voting math at the time.
Oh don't get me wrong. I wasn't intending to specifically flip math with that. I just picked the top 4 realistic wagons. I actually had a town lean on BBT there and wrote him up anyway. I had scum leans on everyone else. But I saw town stalling and wanted to push things forward, and I believe it was successful at that.
Oh. You basically answered that you were not trying to flip math with that post.

With that being said, what about you making that post is anti-partnered with Math?

Because that is the only part of this discussion that matters.

And if it does not do anything towards making you anti-partnered with math, then what even is the point of this conversation?
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Post Post #11036 (ISO) » Fri Jul 29, 2022 3:42 pm

Post by Dancing Puppets »

In post 10987, Rad wrote:This game is pissing me off and I'd rather it just be fun and not so stressful. Killing enchant sounds less stressful. Also I envy their seemingly care free approach to the game.

VOTE: enchant

I'm just kinda psyched that Johnny might not be scum. That makes me happy. Also pretty sure my town!RCE read is correct and I'm happy that me and Nancy are getting along when we clashed so hard earlier.
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Post Post #11037 (ISO) » Fri Jul 29, 2022 3:43 pm

Post by Lukewarm »

On an unrelated note.

If there is an Ana Lucia, cop PR, out there

first: do not claim.

BUT, I would love for you to reach out to the Mod to ask if they would confirm you as Sane.

If you get a clear cut, "You are sane," then don't worry about it.

But if you get anything like "I can't tell you more then your role PM" or some other such nonsense, probably out that.
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Post Post #11038 (ISO) » Fri Jul 29, 2022 3:44 pm

Post by Rad »

In post 11033, Lukewarm wrote:Like, are you seriously arguing that people should think that you cannot be partnered with Math, because you made a post where you outlined the top 4 wagons (one of which happened to be Math).

Because, to be clear, your post gives big "one of which happen to be Math" energy.

If you want to argue that your post was the catalyst for some of the people to vote math, then sure. But that speaks more on those people. The people who looked at the 4, and when given those 4 options made a choice. Then it does about the person who made the list of 4 people.
I looked back to remember why I felt we were "stalled". These posts were what drove my big post:
In post 9424, Bell wrote:Mathblade
In post 9425, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:
In post 9424, Bell wrote:Mathblade
he's so hard to kill even when he's gone lol
In post 9426, Best Bird wrote:Doesn't help that we're off wagon atm
In post 9429, Bell wrote:I think it has more to do with this town than it has to do with Mathblade.
Whatever people want out of mafia they aren't getting so they won't eliminate anyone until they get whatever it is.
I wanted to motivate town to join in on a single wagon, whether that was my c&g one or one of the others.
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Post Post #11039 (ISO) » Fri Jul 29, 2022 3:46 pm

Post by Lukewarm »

VOTE: Enchant[/vote

Still leaning scum on Rad, but enchant is likely also scum.

And probably have the votes for that today
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Post Post #11040 (ISO) » Fri Jul 29, 2022 3:46 pm

Post by Lukewarm »

VOTE: Enchant
Still leaning scum on Rad, but enchant is likely also scum.

And probably have the votes for that today
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Post Post #11041 (ISO) » Fri Jul 29, 2022 3:50 pm

Post by Dancing Puppets »

In post 11007, Dancing Puppets wrote:
In post 11006, butterchurn wrote:
Spoiler:
In post 10043, Rad wrote:Does Bella's flavor match up with the idea of being "macho"?
In post 10191, Rad wrote:I was looking through the Lost wiki at the episodes Bella mentioned... the character Juliet is indeed a doctor. So yeah... flavor matches...

I couldn't find anything specific from "the other woman" episode that points to Juliet being "macho" but maybe that's not spelled out in the wiki. Any Lost watchers wanna comment on that? Any macho-like character development from her in that episode?
In post 10242, Rad wrote:
4. Mafia is not determined by flavor. That means roles were mostly selected at random to determine which roles would be mafia.

Let's put some more thought into this.
Mafia's not determined by flavor
, meaning bad guys in the show aren't necessarily scum here, good guys aren't necessarily town.

Roles were
mostly
selected at random to determine which roles would be mafia.
This part doesn't really make sense to me so let's think it through... First - "mostly". Ok so "some" roles may have been selected specifically to be town or specifically scum. Maybe doc is just town no matter what? And we could have, say, a day-shot vig who's scum cause it was random? Along with most other roles, but maybe some are just town or just scum.

So I could see this designed as... assigning specific roles to certain flavor, then randomizing the roles that could be scum (with some roles that CANNOT be scum), and then assigning to players.

That could make a doc like Juliet *just* town.

So question for longer time players. Have you seen scum-docs before on this site?
In post 10247, Rad wrote:Ok so scum doc is possible, cool, good to know.

Let's suppose scum!Bella's doc claim is legit for a moment.

Does scum!Bella the doc target Bell as the one making the kill? Wouldn't scum!Bella the doc target the scum killer in case Bell is POG or something? Or maybe scum has an invest role and scum!Bella the doc sits on them just in case? Why is scum!Bella the doc killing Bell?

This series of posts from prior to that is also pretty heavily focused on proving that Bella is actually Juliet and a doctor, and that makes her town. Mala claims that Bella was trueclaiming. It could be a "just asking questions" angle to try to clear Bella as town
due to the fact that her claim was true
.
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Post Post #11042 (ISO) » Fri Jul 29, 2022 4:03 pm

Post by Dancing Puppets »

In post 11011, Rad wrote:
In post 11002, Best Bird wrote:Game is scum driven and 2/3 yeets have been on scum.

Ok.
It's my paranoid hero solve. I get to gloat like fuck end game when scum!Luke dominates the shit out of town as the top town read all game. I admit it's ridiculous though with my statement "but that seems ridiculous and I dunno how scum pooky or Luke get to end game without being obv scum so it's whatever". And I'm still willing to just follow Luke on this Enchant flip cause chances are Luke's just town here.
In post 11003, Lukewarm wrote:He wants to call the people scum reading him scum, but realizes that me and pooky both pushed math.
Pfff I've been sus of you and T-Bone for a while now.
In post 9110, Rad wrote:@Bell what do you think about T-Bone's and Luke's with regards to their reads on me / descriptions of my play this game?
In post 9113, Rad wrote:
In post 9111, Lukewarm wrote:
In post 9110, Rad wrote:@Bell what do you think about T-Bone's and Luke's with regards to their reads on me / descriptions of my play this game?
You do know that a single player scum reading you is okay right? Lol
I do!

I also read him town and would like to hear his thoughts about those posts :)
In post 9114, Rad wrote:For some context Luke, I feel similar about both you and T-Bone as you feel about T-Bone. I'd like to get some more opinions to help round out my reads, and hey, if Bell's scum that answer could be useful as well.

It doesn't have to be me trying to convince Bell that I'm town with your and T-Bone's endorsement, ya know? :)
Pooky announcing you're both town via cop read when there's no great reason to throw that out right now just made me sus Pooky. And in the scenario where scum!Pooky does that, I try to figure out what the likely scenario is for Luke and T-Bone's alignments. Probably safe to pull in 1 scum partner there. Kinda ridiculous to pull in 2. And really safe to just announce you're cop and 2 townies are town.
Even if you were right on Pooky, it would be hella stupid for scum!him to clear two buddies, no? I also think it would make way more sense for scum!Pooky to claim the two guities as scum. I really can’t see why Pooky would ever fake clear his buddies but he might claim a gulty on one, so your theory I think is flawed. Anyway clearing two townies reads +town to me and I actually had some major paranoia on him after Bell nk.
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Post Post #11043 (ISO) » Fri Jul 29, 2022 4:05 pm

Post by Lukewarm »

In post 11038, Rad wrote:
In post 11033, Lukewarm wrote:Like, are you seriously arguing that people should think that you cannot be partnered with Math, because you made a post where you outlined the top 4 wagons (one of which happened to be Math).

Because, to be clear, your post gives big "one of which happen to be Math" energy.

If you want to argue that your post was the catalyst for some of the people to vote math, then sure. But that speaks more on those people. The people who looked at the 4, and when given those 4 options made a choice. Then it does about the person who made the list of 4 people.
I looked back to remember why I felt we were "stalled". These posts were what drove my big post:

Spoiler:
In post 9424, Bell wrote:Mathblade
In post 9425, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:
In post 9424, Bell wrote:Mathblade
he's so hard to kill even when he's gone lol
In post 9426, Best Bird wrote:Doesn't help that we're off wagon atm
In post 9429, Bell wrote:I think it has more to do with this town than it has to do with Mathblade.
Whatever people want out of mafia they aren't getting so they won't eliminate anyone until they get whatever it is.
I wanted to motivate town to join in on a single wagon, whether that was my c&g one or one of the others.

This selection of posts feels tailor made to make it look like you expected it to kill of Math....

The posts immediately proceeding your presenter posts included a lot about momentum onto C/G.

Spoiler:
In post 9430, Lukewarm wrote:
In post 9418, Best Bird wrote:
In post 9415, Lukewarm wrote:Should we actually do this?

VOTE: cg
why?
Doubting their claim. I actually think that they did have a posting restriction, but I don't believe that the punishment was death and it was not made clear to them.

Seems more likely to me, that the actually affect of breaking the posting restriction would be one that they don't want to tell the class.

I also have not gotten good vibes from them since they have lifted their posting restriction.

I also had a thought at the time of the flips, that if the mafia did kill Frog, then that would make sense in a world with scum C/G, given they were one of the 2 total suggestions made for Frog to Rolecop. (Dunn and i suggested dunn, roden suggested C/G).

And that thought came back when C/G just joined the discussion to advocate for you targeting Dunn over Frog.
In post 9432, Lukewarm wrote:
In post 9196, Save The Dragons wrote:Not Voting (Bellaphant, butterchurn, Best Bird, JohnnyFarrar, Malakittens, MalcolmTucker, Cytosine and Guanine, Off the Hook)
Also this
In post 9433, Bell wrote:C&G is off, but I can smell the fake role posturing from here.
If they're actually just neighbor VT here they're playing exceptionally badly as either alignment.
I'll leave a 0 star review on their yelp page.
In post 9435, Best Bird wrote:
In post 9432, Lukewarm wrote:
In post 9196, Save The Dragons wrote:Not Voting (Bellaphant, butterchurn, Best Bird, JohnnyFarrar, Malakittens, MalcolmTucker, Cytosine and Guanine, Off the Hook)
Also this
mmm...they still aren't voting....i don't like that
In post 9436, JohnnyFarrar wrote:VOTE: C&g]
In post 9442, T-Bone wrote:
In post 9415, Lukewarm wrote:Should we actually do this?

VOTE: cg
Choo choo
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Post Post #11044 (ISO) » Fri Jul 29, 2022 4:08 pm

Post by Lukewarm »

I feel like that last post I made is going to cause more back and forth with Rad...

Rad. I understand that there is a perfectly reasonable explanation why town!Rad would have made that post.

And I feel that explanation coming from you already.

But reasonableness does not matter.

There is a "reasonable" explanation for that post from town!rad, and a "reasonable" explanation for that post from scum!rad.

But it only matters if you are actually making an Alignment Indicative Point.
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Post Post #11045 (ISO) » Fri Jul 29, 2022 4:09 pm

Post by Dancing Puppets »

In post 11016, Cytosine and Guanine wrote:Here's the post-by-post paraphrase/summary of the neighborhood starting with MathBlade's entrance. (I already summarized/paraphrased the posts leading up to MathBlade's entrance in .) I am putting it in spoilers because it's pretty long. If I am being vague, it's because 1) I want to stay pretty clear of the "not quite a copy-paste but dangerously close to being one" line and 2) the question or comment was very likely insignificant and would not be very relevant at this point.

Spoiler: Neighborhood Summary Pages 2-4
27: MathBlade asks what he should look at first as the thread is very large.
28: MathBlade clarifies that 27 is also meant to help sort us.
29: I mention our post restriction to MathBlade and that I cannot help him catch up much.
30: MathBlade asks if it is known that he and us can speak together in private.
31: Guanine responds that the existence of the PT is not public yet.
32: Guanine quotes 31 that he forgot to sign and signs this post.
33: MathBlade says he will crumb the neighborhood.
34: Guanine agrees that crumbing is a good idea.
35: Guanine quotes 34 that he forgot to sign and signs this post.
36: MathBlade posts his first crumb (post #).
37: MathBlade posts his second crumb (post #).
38: MathBlade posts his third crumb (post #).
39: MathBlade says people are avoiding talking about Bell.
40: MathBlade asks us a question and says he can help us save words by posting for us.
41: I respond to the question in 40.
42: Guanine follows up my response in 41.
43: MathBlade says he is looking at vote counts.
44: MathBlade asks who our signatures correspond to.
45: I post some notes I had on the thread. I also respond to MathBlade's question in 44 explaining my view on the matter and letting Guanine decide.
46: MathBlade asks me if he can paraphrase my 45.
47: MathBlade posts his fourth crumb (post #).
48: MathBlade says that he posted my 45.
49: MathBlade wants the neighborhood to be public.

50: Guanine, responding to MathBlade's question in 44, says that he has already slipped who is who.
51: Guanine suggests MathBlade just claim his flavor Sun.
52: MathBlade double-checks whether we are okay with him claiming his flavor.
53: MathBlade makes an edit to his post in 52.
54: MathBlade makes another comment relating to 52.
55: MathBlade says he will go ahead and flavor claim.
56: Guanine asks a question to MathBlade.
57: MathBlade asks for Guanine to clarify the context for the question in 56.
58: MathBlade says he has not seen scum Lukewarm before and is hesitant to start a wagon there if Lukewarm is town.
59: Guanine responds and says that he liked Lukewarm's early game.
60: MathBlade asks if we need anything or can give him a reads list.
61: Guanine says he is moving Bell up to null and Dancing Puppets to town. He also mentions that Klick and Frog are still null as well.
62: Guanine says he still has reservations about Bell.
63: MathBlade asks us to clarify what can be shared.
64: MathBlade wonders if it is possible that everyone except Bell is town.
65: Guanine responds that everything from him is shareable.
66: Guanine responds to MathBlade's 64 with the fact that Taly confirmed Bell as Boone.
67: MathBlade responds to Guanine's 66 that it is either a fake claim, or MathBlade's theory is off.
68: MathBlade is frustrated with the game.
69: MathBlade asks us what reads we want to share.
70: I respond to MathBlade's 64 with it being unlikely given how Save the Dragons advertised the game.
71: MathBlade says that he got a bit upset.
72: MathBlade asks us what a long number means.
73: MathBlade agains says he would like for us to give him something to post.
74: I respond to 72 by explaining how Pooky wanted reads Day 1.

75: MathBlade says the scum are the active players. He specifically calls out Dancing Puppets.
76: MathBlade asks us to further explain our Dancing Puppets town read.
77: Guanine responds to 76 with an elaboration.
78: Guanine reiterates that MathBlade can share anything Guanine posts.
79: Guanine says he is at page 172 in the the thread.
80: MathBlade once again asks us to further explain our town read of Dancing Puppets.
81: MathBlade complains that reading the game is hard due to to how quickly the game is progressing.
82: MathBlade explains why he unvoted and asks us to give some scum reads.
83: Guanine talks a bit about Dancing Puppet's .
84: MathBlade says that he is still not convinced by our arguments that Dancing Puppets is town.
85: Guanine states that Roden's claim has removed Roden from Guanine's scum reads.
86: Guanine gives in a bit to MathBlade's 84.
87: MathBlade asks us to give a quick blurb for every player we town read.
88: MathBlade says that he would like to town read Dancing Puppets, but he needs a good reason to do so.
89: Guanine asks MathBlade to clarify 87.
90: MathBlade believes there are scum in the people voting Roden.
91: Guanine posts our list of town reads and reasons why.
92: Guanine makes some corrections to 91.
93: Guanine clarifies that the list reflects most his opinion rather than our collective opinion.
94: MathBlade is somewhat satisfied by what Guanine has given him to work with.
95: Guanine suggests Klick as the potential scum in the Roden voters.
96: MathBlade is okay with wagoning Klick but is worried about how that may be perceived.
97: Guanine suggests the best strategy for wagoning Klick is to combine forces with Bell.
98: MathBlade says that he voted Klick.
99: MathBlade says he is not town reading Bell.


I'll post the other half of the neigbhorhood chat and our thoughts on associations and anti-associations tomorrow.
~Cytosine
Wow cool, my theory on Math switching his read on us to mollify DNA actually turned out to be correct. Happy to know I got something right in this game. :)

DNA definitely town for this post alone + Bella spew as well but it’s abundantly clear that Math tried to hard drive a miselim on us and DNA nipped it in the bud.
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And these are the lives you love to lead
~ Fall Out Boy

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Post Post #11046 (ISO) » Fri Jul 29, 2022 4:11 pm

Post by butterchurn »

Spoiler:
In post 9210, Rad wrote:Actually, masons for the Math and C&G slots makes a lot of sense given both the flavor and their TRs on each other.

Is a setup with 2 mason groups ridiculous and unheard of? My main concern with this idea is:
In post 4539, Cytosine and Guanine wrote:
In post 4001, Roden wrote:Yeah I'm not going to bother trying to keep up at this point, 70 pages is too much.

I can vaguely tell there's a wagon on me. I'm claiming Mason.
UNVOTE: Roden
(move Town)
-Guanine
A C&G mason would have to believe that 2 mason groups in this set up is totally legit and there's no reason to question the other mason claim at all.

I think considering the Math and C&G slots are viable wagons right now, they should just claim if they're masons?
In post 9230, Rad wrote:
In post 9227, Lukewarm wrote:
In post 9210, Rad wrote:Actually, masons for the Math and C&G slots makes a lot of sense given both the flavor and their TRs on each other.
They never claimed masons, and it is unproductive to just invent that idea and work from there.
It's a scenario that clears up a ton of things for me. I'm not inventing anything, I'm looking at it from different angles and that specific angle makes most things click into place. I'm not saying it's necessarily the reality, and C&G can come in and make a claim if they want to, and we can take it from there. The other angle that makes sense for me right now is a SvS between the 2 slots.

I didn't notice this mentioned recently. I think it is also important to bring up this sequence where Rad out of nowhere theorizes that C&G+Math as masons "makes a lot of sense". And when basically told that that's ridiculous, his response of "I'm just considering all the possibilities!" is pretty similar to how he acts after called out for how he handles the Bella claim.

Also taking note of this series of posts for if Enchant flips scum:

Spoiler:
In post 9118, Rad wrote:
In post 9116, Lukewarm wrote:But also, he would be a safe person for scum to push. Because no one is ever blamed for his miselim in any game he is miseliminated in.
Luke I think we're having similar thoughts about Enchant.

Here's my "easy targets" list from beginning of d2:

Math
BBT
Enchant
Johnny
PP/BB
Mala
PD

I've been specifically aware of any pushes on those people. Not that any of them are necessarily town that scum wants to push, but that if scum wants to push someone easily, it's likely a town in this list.

Have you been thinking something similar? I only ask because you pointed this out with Enchant so was wondering if you had a list like this.
In post 9127, Rad wrote:
In post 9123, T-Bone wrote:
In post 9118, Rad wrote:
In post 9116, Lukewarm wrote:But also, he would be a safe person for scum to push. Because no one is ever blamed for his miselim in any game he is miseliminated in.
Luke I think we're having similar thoughts about Enchant.

Here's my "easy targets" list from beginning of d2:

Math
BBT
Enchant
Johnny
PP/BB
Mala
PD

I've been specifically aware of any pushes on those people. Not that any of them are necessarily town that scum wants to push, but that if scum wants to push someone easily, it's likely a town in this list.

Have you been thinking something similar? I only ask because you pointed this out with Enchant so was wondering if you had a list like this.
I just wanna say, I am literally having to work with Nancy here to get even one vote on Enchant so this is anything but easy.
My perception of easy and the reality may not match up (though I stand by my perception here).

Do you think there are some easier players for scum to target or is that a ridiculous thought?

I'll give my "hard" list to compare. Do you think if we gladiate Enchant with any of the following players, people would vote anyone over enchant?

Rad
Luke
DP
C&G (note - was made at beginning of d2, I think after the potential lie reveal this is no longer "hard")
Roden
Dwlee
In post 9130, Rad wrote:
In post 9120, Lukewarm wrote:Looking at your own list it kind of feels like you are conflating being widely scum read with being an easy push, and also an easy push with a safe push.
A town that's widely scum read is an easy push for scum to make. So I'm more cautious of those in the "easy" list and will focus more on the reasons given for a vote on them than anyone else.

Are there probably scum in this list? Yeah for sure unless town is absolutely lost (hurrr) this game. A push on any one of them doesn't mean it's a push on town, but if there are town in that list, they're likely going to get pushed by scum.

That's my theory here.
In post 9137, Rad wrote:
In post 9132, Lukewarm wrote:
In post 9130, Rad wrote:So I'm more cautious of those in the "easy" list and
will focus more on the reasons given for a vote on them than anyone
else
If this is what you were saying, then I totally agree with you
Yes that is my main point.

I believe that scum will go for "hard" targets IF the opportunity provides itself, but most likely it won't, so the easy targets are more likely and I'll pay more attention to those pushes.
In post 9139, Rad wrote:
In post 9136, Mislim Bait wrote:
In post 9130, Rad wrote:
In post 9120, Lukewarm wrote:Looking at your own list it kind of feels like you are conflating being widely scum read with being an easy push, and also an easy push with a safe push.
A town that's widely scum read is an easy push for scum to make. So I'm more cautious of those in the "easy" list and will focus more on the reasons given for a vote on them than anyone else.

Are there probably scum in this list? Yeah for sure unless town is absolutely lost (hurrr) this game. A push on any one of them doesn't mean it's a push on town, but if there are town in that list, they're likely going to get pushed by scum.

That's my theory here.
scum pushing lhf is just basic hunting theory.
who's reasons are bad is what matters
Yeah, it's LHF theory, isn't it. Sorry for being basic :shifty:

I think I got caught up in Luke's point about Enchant and wanted to explore and confirm it.

It's a kind of weird sequence where he uses Luke's post that mentions Enchant as a springboard to talk about how Enchant (along with a list of others that includes Math) is an easy push and that we should all be watching out for people who push them with bad reasons, while also framing it as Luke's point (despite Luke's point being different) that he is seeking to confirm.
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Post Post #11047 (ISO) » Fri Jul 29, 2022 4:12 pm

Post by Lukewarm »

In post 11044, Lukewarm wrote:it only matters if you are actually making an Alignment Indicative Point.
My Alignment Indicative Point was this:

Rad avoided joining the Math wagon, until the Math wagon looked pretty inevitable. And this was despite it being the biggest wagon, and rad claiming to want consolidation. And this was despite having a scum read/scum lean on the slot. And this was despite Rad noticing that all of his town reads were voting the slot.

That feel scum indicative to me.

And it feels like you are countering that, without actually making an alignment indicative point.

I don't care how reasonable it is for Town!Rad to have done the same thing. Because scum are never going to do something that they don't think that it is reasonable for them to have done as town.
I have a GTKAS now! - Come ask me questions!

They're super opinionated and make a lot of assumptions, they're also pretty clumsy with word choice - Bell
Luke, respect for your scumgame has gone up massively - Hectic
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Post Post #11048 (ISO) » Fri Jul 29, 2022 4:16 pm

Post by Lukewarm »

In post 11046, butterchurn wrote:It's a kind of weird sequence where he uses Luke's post that mentions Enchant as a springboard to talk about how Enchant (along with a list of others that includes Math) is an easy push and that we should all be watching out for people who push them with bad reasons, while also framing it as Luke's point (despite Luke's point being different) that he is seeking to confirm.
Yeah. I spotted that too.

Part of why Enchant+Rad feels like a solid solve. They look kinda partnered, while both looking kinda partnered with Math and Bella.
I have a GTKAS now! - Come ask me questions!

They're super opinionated and make a lot of assumptions, they're also pretty clumsy with word choice - Bell
Luke, respect for your scumgame has gone up massively - Hectic
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Post Post #11049 (ISO) » Fri Jul 29, 2022 4:22 pm

Post by Rad »

In post 11044, Lukewarm wrote:I feel like that last post I made is going to cause more back and forth with Rad...

Rad. I understand that there is a perfectly reasonable explanation why town!Rad would have made that post.

And I feel that explanation coming from you already.

But reasonableness does not matter.

There is a "reasonable" explanation for that post from town!rad, and a "reasonable" explanation for that post from scum!rad.

But it only matters if you are actually making an Alignment Indicative Point.
Luke this (and your other recent posts) is why I town read you and scum read Malcolm.

Cause your logic makes sense and you're weighing both angles equally. Malcolm JUST focuses on scum!Rad.

Paranoid me thinks you're just dominating everyone as scum but I also try to recognize that's a silly way to look at it.
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