LOST (Game Over)

[ProfessorDrapion]

Plus it was obvious math was going over so since they knew this they also knew they could try and make a partner look better before they went over.

[ProfessorDrapion]

Least that’s my opinion here.

[Rad]

So I know people hate meta, but I read Newbie 2095 during the break and both Roden and Mala as town in that game played completely different than whatever they're doing here. Both were thoughtful and full of analysis, and both leader types, even on Mala's alt. Like I read Roden as hard town almost immediately and it never dropped.

Is it ridiculous to doubt the mason claims here? I get it could be town complacence being "confirmed" but holy shit, it's like a different person. If we have some way to confirm one way or the other, that would be great, though I'm guessing we do not at this point without a flip, and no need to flip a mason claim at this stage I think?

I'd ask both of them to step up their game if town. I dunno if Mala's trying to push a new goof around town meta or something, but there's so much lost compared to how both of them played in 2095.

Man I wish the town thought the same way about me in that game too

Yeah I'm close to voting bbt here. I gave him a pass too long thinking I could read him better but I just can't. I read him town in 2095 without much trouble but this game I haven't been easily convinced 1 way or the other. Just sits there at null and leans back and forth. That's probably a good sign of scum bbt. I just woke up though so going to think about this for a bit.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Sure, but not at that point of the game.

Let's say Math's push was successful. I was pretty widely scum read at the time too, so it's feasible. You're suggesting that, as scum, we decided to try and narrow the pool so that it could potentially be Math vs BBT for absolutely no reason. It would be an extremely dangerous play given how widely scum read both of us were.

Not to mention the other player would get very little cred from a red flip. So, yeah, can we not?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yeah I'm close to voting bbt here. I gave him a pass too long thinking I could read him better but I just can't. I read him town in 2095 without much trouble but this game I haven't been easily convinced 1 way or the other. Just sits there at null and leans back and forth. That's probably a good sign of scum bbt. I just woke up though so going to think about this for a bit.

Nice.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

If you could explain, FYPOV, how me sitting at null is a 'good sign' of scum BBT that would be great.

[Taly]

I'm a doc, hence I think there must be two from flavour, I was on rad n1 then bell.

Ok so I guess this isn’t entirely a redcheck then.


I Hardclaim Tracker


N1: CSF - Action Failed for some reason
N2: Bella visited Bell.

We're not yeeting Bella.

Pooky is scum posting again.

Although actually, now that I think about it, scum using a strongman on Bell when there are so many potential options for a Doc to save doesn't really make sense.

Bella's play doesn't feel like scum though?

BBT I get that this a bit out of context but can you elaborate on your Bella read? How did you interpret Drap's claim at the time?

[Taly]

So I know people hate meta, but I read Newbie 2095 during the break and both Roden and Mala as town in that game played completely different than whatever they're doing here. Both were thoughtful and full of analysis, and both leader types, even on Mala's alt. Like I read Roden as hard town almost immediately and it never dropped.

Is it ridiculous to doubt the mason claims here? I get it could be town complacence being "confirmed" but holy shit, it's like a different person. If we have some way to confirm one way or the other, that would be great, though I'm guessing we do not at this point without a flip, and no need to flip a mason claim at this stage I think?

I'd ask both of them to step up their game if town. I dunno if Mala's trying to push a new goof around town meta or something, but there's so much lost compared to how both of them played in 2095.

A bit like with the suspicion of Pooky and Luke yesterday that never went anywhere, feels like Rad is trying to shade widely townread players on the off-chance it'll work without ever really committing to it at all. I think it's fine to use meta but I think it's understandable that not everyone plays every game in the same way. I did scumread Roden early on but seeing little reason to doubt the mason claim at this stage.

Considering

Rad

doesn't seem like a powerful posting slot in the game from what I've skimmed of D3 and D4, I don't think that's a strategy that would work with

Rad

alone. So it doesn't read to me as a probable motive for

Rad

.

I want you and

butterchurn

to flesh out your votes.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I wasn't sure, I'm not great at set-up spec either.

I believed Drap was tracker and I believed he tracked Bella to Bell, I just wasn't sure that this made her scum. I was town reading her pretty heavily outside of the claim and I mostly relied on this to form my read. I also liked the way Bella claimed and the info she gave made me think she was telling the truth (in terms of being macho, why would scum have a macho Doc for example). I can't lie and say that I didn't just *want* Bella to be town because I enjoy playing with her, so there is that as well.

The strongman was just a consideration as well - again, something that I wanted to think so that Bella could be town. After thinking about it though, it seemed strange for scum to use strongman on the Bell kill, so yeah, I disregarded it.

[Rad]

If you could explain, FYPOV, how me sitting at null is a 'good sign' of scum BBT that would be great.

Because I read you as town easily in 2095 and you had the same vibe there as you had in 2097. I haven't seen that vibe from you here which is what I was waiting for. You're just passive and reactionary here while you pressure and are more involved in those other games. I'm thinking that's probably a good sign of scum!bbt.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You don't think I pressured and was more involved in our Newbie game where I was scum?

[Cytosine and Guanine]

Wasn’t going to mention Rad, but I don’t like that post at all.

Somewhat agree.
Feels somewhat like an attempt at shading Roden.
-Guanine

[BlueBloodedToffee]

@Rad - I'm pretty sure you used that exact line of reasoning for why I was scum when you were scum and I was town in our last game.

[RCEnigma]

Plus it was obvious math was going over so since they knew this they also knew they could try and make a partner look better before they went over.

If you’re interested in my opinion I think it’s the opposite.

I think bbt was the more likely to go down. His wagon did catch on a bit when math started it. The impression it gave me was math needed a foothold or a patsy and bbt was fine with being bussed since he was already accumulating pressure day 1. Whatever math spewed with his bbt case was bogus but that doesn’t make bbt town.

Why would math do this?

Two outcomes:

Math can better defend themselves because “well look at this townie thing math is doing by starting a wagon on a scummy slot”. Math doesn’t even have to follow through with the push they can bailout onto the next slot whenever town sees something else shiny.

Or the buss goes through and math gains credibility which he desperately needed at the time.

Both fell through because of oog health issues so we didn’t get a natural conclusion but that’s all just a theory.


















A game theory.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

[
I believe I have a good feel for the difference between scum!BBT and town!BBT, but he'll have to ramp up his activity before I can test that theory. He's just null right now. His town and scum play is pretty similar, so it's not really a meta read per se, it's just that his intuition comes out differently as town vs scum.

This you?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

im ngl im half tempted to vote off rad just so I can troll lukewarm about his reads if rad flips town[and if rad flips scum its just a bonus]

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

[Rad]

So I know people hate meta, but I read Newbie 2095 during the break and both Roden and Mala as town in that game played completely different than whatever they're doing here. Both were thoughtful and full of analysis, and both leader types, even on Mala's alt. Like I read Roden as hard town almost immediately and it never dropped.

Is it ridiculous to doubt the mason claims here? I get it could be town complacence being "confirmed" but holy shit, it's like a different person. If we have some way to confirm one way or the other, that would be great, though I'm guessing we do not at this point without a flip, and no need to flip a mason claim at this stage I think?

I'd ask both of them to step up their game if town. I dunno if Mala's trying to push a new goof around town meta or something, but there's so much lost compared to how both of them played in 2095.

Newbie games and games in any other queue are completely different and slots will play them as such.

Yeah well I'm not. This is just my town game where I'm too open with my thoughts which gets me into trouble.

Let me quote 2095 Roden with some of his insight I thought was on point.

I say this having done that as scum. It's a consistently solid strategy to just play passively and town read volatile townies while town cannablizes itself for you.

Yeah this is the extent of my scum game right now. I did this with furtive last game and don't see why I wouldn't be doing that here if I was scum. Instead, I'm just attacking everyone at different times because I have no idea who is scum. Or maybe you buy into Malcolm's theory of me spreading shade across everyone openly while defending my partners. Yeah, not in my scum range right now but that's cool.

[Rad]

im ngl im half tempted to vote off rad just so I can troll lukewarm about his reads if rad flips town[and if rad flips scum its just a bonus]

Troll him after game when I'm alive and town and town won

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

rad if you were going to catch a scumbag and actually put together a scumcase on someone, today's probly the last chance you got buddy

[Rad]

[
I believe I have a good feel for the difference between scum!BBT and town!BBT, but he'll have to ramp up his activity before I can test that theory. He's just null right now. His town and scum play is pretty similar, so it's not really a meta read per se, it's just that his intuition comes out differently as town vs scum.

This you?

Yeah and then 400 pages happened and I lost your tone. So reading 2095 helped remind me what town bbt looks like.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Town Lean:
butterchurn
Johnny
T-Bone
BB
Pooky
Mislim Bait
BBT
Taly
Roden

What changed your read on me since here, Rad?

[Rad]

rad if you were going to catch a scumbag and actually put together a scumcase on someone, today's probly the last chance you got buddy

Yeah I mentioned that at beginning of day. I get that I'm today's lim. Hell I'd flip me here. It would be impressive if town keeps me alive due to smart town. Cause I flip green and the only hope for me is smart town.

End of the day this isn't my scum game. I think both RCE and BBT should know that here even if they're town but meh, reads are hard. I'm sticking with my hard town read on RCE regardless of where he ends up on me.

[Rad]

Town Lean:
butterchurn
Johnny
T-Bone
BB
Pooky
Mislim Bait
BBT
Taly
Roden

What changed your read on me since here, Rad?

2095 read happened

[Cytosine and Guanine]

@Rad - I'm pretty sure you used that exact line of reasoning for why I was scum when you were scum and I was town in our last game.

Out of curiosity, can you link that game so that we can see for ourselves the similarities.
It would be useful for Town.
-Guanine