LOST (Game Over)

[Off The Hook]

Why are we in your PoE then?

Because you could be scum WITH that role

And why couldn’t the same apply for either of Mala or BB? Yes I recognize you stated those roles might be better to keep secret but I think I recall some instance of scum having a role like BB’s and using it to great effect. I think the scum utility of such a role might hinge somewhat on the reveal of it.

~GE

[Rad]

weren't you townreading Rad?

Yeah like 20000 posts ago? Rad and I even talked yesterday about how I'm losing confidence there

Rad better not be scum tho, I can only be so wrong

By 20000 you mean today, 186 posts ago.

11376 was the first time i got the impression you though I was scum.

The previous mention before 11333 was 10774 where you pointed out that I don't appear to be associated with any flipped scum.

[Off The Hook]

Like BB says they have a role that lets them talk to the dead. Privately.
Either A) they're scum making that up and opening themself up to CC or B) they're scum WITH that ability and let the whole town know for no reason instead of using it in secret for whatever the hell they want.

Honestly a scum role that can communicate with the dead serves basically no purpose if kept secret unless used on scum partners, but why would anyone do that unless the first scum to die was the nose experienced by a mile?

~GE

[JohnnyFarrar]

I find perspective useful

[butterflies]

The graph is mainly just to see what Bell and Luke did to get themselves killed first and why Pooky may have been spared for now. It's not completely up to date, but we can factor those changes in if anyone knows Bell and Luke's final reads.

Mislim Bait, Taly, and Best Bird have the most to gain from killing Bell and Luke first, I think. Do we have any reason to remove any of them from the PoE?

I don’t know how much attention you’ve been paying to this game but a lot haz happened since then. Like Math spewed Taly town during gladiate by not gaf whether or not Ceph or them got whacked and BB hadn’t claimed anything yet. Not saying this isn’t useful but I’d probably use it to see what flipped scum’s reads were att.

[butterflies]

Lol - you can fuck

all

the way off of you are using that chart for that purpose.

This is a massive overreaction. If something changed that made you seem townier then it'll come up as we discuss everything. If Luke or Bell's reads changed before they died, I asked for people to update it. Acting like I'm asking for a triple execution based on old reads is ridiculous, I'm just trying to start somewhere because the game state feels directionless and I think the NK choices were important.

Like, who else should be looked at right now? I've been trying to kill BBT for 5000 years and no one wants to commit to it. Rad is probably just town here. I don't want to vote Johnny today. I could be interested in RCE but I don't think anyone else is.

I think RCE is town.

[butterflies]

Lol - you can fuck

all

the way off of you are using that chart for that purpose.

This is a massive overreaction. If something changed that made you seem townier then it'll come up as we discuss everything. If Luke or Bell's reads changed before they died, I asked for people to update it. Acting like I'm asking for a triple execution based on old reads is ridiculous, I'm just trying to start somewhere because the game state feels directionless and I think the NK choices were important.

Like, who else should be looked at right now? I've been trying to kill BBT for 5000 years and no one wants to commit to it. Rad is probably just town here. I don't want to vote Johnny today. I could be interested in RCE but I don't think anyone else is.

I think RCE is town.

[JohnnyFarrar]

And why couldn’t the same apply for either of Mala or BB? Yes I recognize you stated those roles might be better to keep secret but I think I recall some instance of scum having a role like BB’s and using it to great effect. I think the scum utility of such a role might hinge somewhat on the reveal of it.

I don't entirely disagree and I agree BB is more likely scum than Mala here. But there is a usefulness in scum keeping this role hidden if they have it, if even to just save it for later and use the claim more strategically. BB just kinda came out with it

[JohnnyFarrar]

I think RCE is town.

Ooooh why. I have basically nothing for them in my head

[butterflies]

And why couldn’t the same apply for either of Mala or BB? Yes I recognize you stated those roles might be better to keep secret but I think I recall some instance of scum having a role like BB’s and using it to great effect. I think the scum utility of such a role might hinge somewhat on the reveal of it.

I don't entirely disagree and I agree BB is more likely scum than Mala here. But there is a usefulness in scum keeping this role hidden if they have it, if even to just save it for later and use the claim more strategically. BB just kinda came out with it

I’m starting to think Johnny’s town here.

[butterflies]

I think RCE is town.

Ooooh why. I have basically nothing for them in my head

Well Toad sounds completely differently here than in Schadd’s game for one and his posts in geberal I like. He reminds me quite a bit here of Squid game.

[Rad]

I gotta go to sleep now so I'll end tonight with this.

Town, hello. Why does scum!Rad kill Bell and Luke who are reading him as scum? It's ridiculous and obvious. scum!Rad's plan there is to do that so I can, right now, claim that it's ridiculous and obvious. This is the move that scum!Rad has been planning since the Bell flip, in a large game with 4 other scum partners, after 2 newbies where I 1. as town push dead town players' reads to win the game and 2. as scum focus heavily on the 1 player that I thought I could pocket into a win.

If this is scum!Rad following what's proven to work I've chosen Nancy as that 1 player. Is pocketing Nancy here the winning move for scum!Rad? Point to someone else scum!Rad has pocketed here. Johnny maybe? Lol. And scum!Rad pockets Nancy via pushing Nancy and then crossing his fingers that Nancy backs off and we can be pocket friends.

If this is town!Rad I'm just openly chasing ideas left and right with no focus because I do not understand how to focus yet. I go out of my way to read other games with players who are in this one. That includes a bunch of Nancy games and some newbie games focusing on Luke and Roden/Mala/BBT.

I'm today's mislim. I get it if I have to be flipped to prove it but me being the mislim is just the fact. I don't think it would even be super obvious who is scum on my mislim. Scum could wait until town started the mislim to jump on. Scum could just do it because it's super justifiable.

I think we got basically 1 good read out of this so far and that's BBT. NO reason to get off my wagon here as scum.

There's probably some town defending me too and I'll try to figure that out tomorrow.

For now I wanted to leave this in case spicy shit happens over night while I'm asleep.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Making my way through Rad's ISO, he doesn't seem like scum with MathBlade to me, though this ISO dive is not as conclusive as I'd like it

Holy shit I try to catch up, come in and it's on page 106, and I read everything starting from 95ish? and it's 6 more pages while I'm reading.

I mean I'm actually super happy how much happens in this game but it felt like I would never catch up...

So we're voting Mathblade Luke? I wanted to vote DP but I do think the corwin slot has a strong chance of flipping red. DP slot has bothered me the entire game and I'm finally feeling a strong scum read on it.

VOTE: Mathblade

This vote on Mathblade was the third vote (after Lukewarm and Pooky).

This is the closest VC. Other wagons were stalling/falling apart, so putting that vote on MathBlade helped get it rolling:

Spoiler:

Flavor

not today satan

Vote Count 1.24

3 BlueBloodedToffee (Dunnstral, PenguinPower, Klick)

2 The Toad (Cat Scratch Fever, PookyTheMagicalBear)
2 MalcolmTucker (Cephrir, JohnnyFarrar)
2 Bell (T-Bone, Mathblade)

1 JohnnyFarrar (Off the Hook)
1 Frogsterking (ProfessorDrapion)
1 Cephrir (Roden)
1 ProfessorDrapion (The toad)
1 Dancing Puppets (Malakittens)
1 Cytosine and Guanine (Bell)
1 PookyTheMagicalBear (Dwlee99)
1 Dunnstral (BlueBloodedToffee)
1 PenguinPower (Enchant)
1 Roden (MalcolmTucker)
1 Mathblade (Lukewarm)
1 Lukewarm (Frogsterking)

Not Voting (Taly, Cytosine and Guanine, Bellaphant, Dancing Puppets, Rad)

With 26 alive, it takes 14 to yeet.

Deadline: (expired on 2022-07-18 12:42:51)

Mod Notes

ProfessorDrapion replaces Galron
Mala on V/LA until the 16th

His trajectory before the wagon also feels fine:

Spoiler:

Corwin ISO deep dive:

1361 - He knows BBT's style isn't to lurk. This feels like unncessesary shade.
1442 - Early town read on me. He knows I just won a game as scum. He didn't read it. I think he'd be more cautious, BUT he did play against town!Rad so maybe I'm an easy read for him. In this same post he's got a scum read on BBT which doesn't actually make any sense IMO.
1464 - I don't like his assessment of BBT here. It's very heavy on BBT not being active but again, he knows BBT isn't a lurker style player, and Corwin has his own non-AI lurker issues, so I feel like he should empathize with BBT here.
1469 - is fair, he was scum when I was town, he should have a decent read on me regardless, though I will say that it sure would be an easy thing to say as scum!Corwin here.
1473 - I mean, who cares if you like BBT saying "I'm town as fuck" - is it AI or not? He doesn't address that, he just doesn't like it regardless of alignment, which comes across scummy to me. I'm actually addressing it in 2031.
1474 - permission to read BBT scum
1710 - more permission
1723 - passes off BBT scum read permission onto me "I'm surprised Rad doesn't feel this way too"
1742 - I do like this, where he gives a reason for his own read instead of just asking BBT about BBT's read
1763 - It's a big game and it's hard to remember everything, is that a good reason to read scum on someone?
1843 - Ehh is this corwin just pointing out something that should be obviously scummy, but then not following up on it with a vote?
1897 - Good post, or scum!Corwin knows t-bone is town and can easily say this.
1902 - Null read on BBT? but had no problem throwing shade constantly.
And he ends with some stats stuff which is probably accurate bit non-AI.

I know corwin, as scum, can become very defensive. He's being very defensive here. I'd need to check his town game to see if this is consistent. I know in his post-game scum game with me, he maintained the defensiveness, so maybe non-AI.

I don't find his interactions with BBT match what I would expect from a town!Corwin. I feel he clings onto the "scum!BBT is so scary!" and never lets go. I was BBT's pet in my first newbie game here and I don't even look at him that way.

I'm leaning scum on Corwin.

There are also a few posts in his ISO before that where he talks to Corwin about BBT.

Then he actually puts a spotlight on Corwin by asking others about him. This goes beyond just keeping a buddy in their scumreads:

Spoiler:

I'll go back to Toad but I'll switch to Corwin if Luke decides to.

VOTE: The toad

I enjoyed my time on the T-Bone train though <3

Works with townread about potentially building a Corwin wagon

Hey Toad. I think it's relevant if you read Corwin here.

Kinda like Corwin on a vibes level?

granted ill reeval if mala continues to do nothing but im way happier with her than other low content slots right now so i can certainly understand how frogsterking arrived at the same conclusion

I am... actually surprised how acceptable I find this.

This post seems towny in that it seems to show evaluation? It's not like impossible to come from scum but I think scum Corwin is more likely to keep pushing on Mala here

What about a Scum!Corwin trying to appeal to ceph?

Ceph don't worry about leading, just read corwin and toad for real and give your thoughts.

Bell the mb read was really on corwin. How did you read corwin?

Then he moves Math to null to let him catch up, which is okay I guess, but doesn't mention Math much after that:

Spoiler:

Oh am I still on Math?

UNVOTE:

Yeah I had a slight scum read on corwin. I'm happy to let Math catch up though and separate from my corwin read, I haven't gotten any sort of leaning from Math so far.

...until this post:

ceph smart to town read me but also know my reads are absolute garbage so I shouldn't be involved here XD

you can answer too if you like. i'll give you and Drapion half votes since I think your reads aren't super good.

bahaha, don't give me any points man, I just <3 johnny whatever alignment he is

Taly
MathBlade
Dancing Puppets
JohnnyFarrar

Math is fairly high up. This was after Drapion put Math as his first preference:

Spoiler:

you know what? i don't need an answer to my last question. the last 2 pages answers it.

@Pooky, Luke, CSF, ProfessorDrapion, T-Bone, Bell, any masons who happen to be here right now

Please stop whatever you're doing. My thing is going to be a lot more important. Instead, please rank these players in the order you would most like them to die. T-Bone, if you could drop your neighbor embargo thing for this and give honest reads, I would appreciate it.

Dancing Puppets
JohnnyFarrar
Taly
MathBlade

Taly, DP, Johnny, Math

Math, John, Puppets, Taly

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I'm kind of interested in RCE's read on Rad, since they were scum together

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Frog can you use it during the day?

Anyway, rereading parts of the game jogged my memory about this post

Which is when was the last time you've seen a day rolecop or a day anything besides activated IC in a non-meme game?

This is an example of how I found Johnny's scumhunting to be fake, just by asking kind of nonsensical questions like this.

Rad asked the same question, but Rad is new (evident just from reading the first sentence of this next post, no offense :S):

Spoiler:

OH I thought the "2 shots" meant he could shoot someone, like a day vig or whatever? It means he can detect roles on 2 people during the day and he's claiming he just did that to Luke and Luke is scum?

The wiki says it detects a person's Role. What's Luke's ROLE frog?

Also...

4. Mafia is not determined by flavor. That means roles were mostly selected at random to determine which roles would be mafia.

Does this make role cop not able to detect alignment?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Maybe I was wrong to townread C&G? I feel like I've seen RH9 be more engaged in Dead/Spectator PTs than this game.

[butterflies]

Maybe I was wrong to townread C&G? I feel like I've seen RH9 be more engaged in Dead/Spectator PTs than this game.

What about Bella wanting to vote them > Math?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Maybe I was wrong to townread C&G? I feel like I've seen RH9 be more engaged in Dead/Spectator PTs than this game.

What about Bella wanting to vote them > Math?

That's the only reason I ever townread them.

But the two of them put together barely has more posts than the mod. I get they had a post restriction day 1, but still...

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I'm mostly done with Malcolm's ISO. I don't see anything to rule him out as scum based on the flips we have.

He didn't talk to or about Corwin. He townread Math - 3014, 3943 - but I can see that coming from either town or scum.

With Bella:

Hi Malcolm, we are awake together and i change my mind on your alignment literally half way through your posts sometimes. Can you throw a question or two my way?

Sure.

What's your read on Johnny?
What's your read on Dunn?
What's making you uncertain about my alignment?

Apologies if you've already clarified any of that.

Bella's response (linked in spoiler below):

Spoiler:

Johnny could very easily be scum . I don't see them making much a thread impact and the only thing that sticks out to me is that they seem to be around to get a few page tops but not massively enagge with anything else. Tbf I basically think the same about mala and I get the vibe that a fair few people are town reading her! Johnny is worse than mala for me because I can tell by his post count that he has content but my mind just slides off the slot.

I just spoke to cat about Dunn. I think Dunn is a player i will always have trouble reading. It worries me that some of my scum reads are based on 'tone', but I don't think it's a big an issue as I think : for example, I'm starting to town read t bone!

With you I read your posts and go 'yes, no, what? Yes...' in the same post. This happened a lot around your corwin stuff. It's odd to me because I find most players, especially the vocal ones in this game, are very straight to the point so it's easier to just follow and then say 'yes/no/that's scummy'.

@frog, I hard town read them in the very early game for meta, the thing I found towny has disappeared so would be down, yeah.

^ This is a hedge-y read on Malcolm from Bella (and she was quite hedge-y about Math!).

Neither party followed up on this conversation after that (I checked both ISOs - neither mentioned the other until at least day 2) - though if he were SvS with Bella, I'd be a bit surprised they didn't use this opportunity to get some SvS interactions in.

He's done a lot of Rad pushing, which I'm not really feeling. But if Johnny were scum, I'd also feel a good deal better about Malcolm. Idk that trio feels like a Gordian Knot to me

[Cat Scratch Fever]

btw did Luke ever claim/soft his role?

Also if Mala has a result from last night, she should claim that.

[Roden]

Lol - you can fuck

all

the way off of you are using that chart for that purpose.

This is a massive overreaction. If something changed that made you seem townier then it'll come up as we discuss everything. If Luke or Bell's reads changed before they died, I asked for people to update it. Acting like I'm asking for a triple execution based on old reads is ridiculous, I'm just trying to start somewhere because the game state feels directionless and I think the NK choices were important.

Like, who else should be looked at right now? I've been trying to kill BBT for 5000 years and no one wants to commit to it. Rad is probably just town here. I don't want to vote Johnny today. I could be interested in RCE but I don't think anyone else is.

Perhaps read the game then. Stop asking other people to do your work and lazy ass rely on a d1 chart.

???

You just got mad because you didn't like my content, lmao what

Jesus - I was vla for almost all of D1 and it seems I’m capable of more understanding than Roden.

Literally what have you done today

[Roden]

Bird giving massive "caught for the wrong reasons" vibes when I didn't even say they were scummy but still got defensive

[Roden]

VOTE: Best Bird

[Best Bird]

Looks like inhurtcsomeone's feelings

[Best Bird]

Bird giving massive "caught for the wrong reasons" vibes when I didn't even say they were scummy but still got defensive

Or...and hear me out here...I actually think it's extremely idiotic to use a reads chart from day 1 where there was no concrete information to influence decisions on Day 5.

Look at the pre-gladiate votecounts if you want actual information to go on.