LOST (Game Over)

[Roden]

If you think the reads chart is bad then maybe you can tell me what the updated reads are

[Best Bird]

I could - but i don't want to

[Roden]

Then you're caught for the wrong reasons I guess

[Best Bird]

Why does scum!Rad kill Bell and Luke who are reading him as scum? It's ridiculous and obvious. scum!Rad's plan there is to do that so I can, right now, claim that it's ridiculous and obvious.

Is pocketing Nancy here the winning move for scum!Rad?

I'm today's mislim. I get it if I have to be flipped to prove it but me being the mislim is just the fact. I don't think it would even be super obvious who is scum on my mislim. Scum could wait until town started the mislim to jump on. Scum could just do it because it's super justifiable.

This just feels like weak acceptance trying to shake off votes...especially when the game state at the time this was posted was:

Unofficial Vote Count 5.1

5 Rad (butterchurn, MalcolmTucker, Best Bird, PookyTheMagicalBear, JohnnyFarrar)
3 MalcolmTucker (BlueBloodedToffee, Rad, Mislim Bait)
2 JohnnyFarrar (Cat Scratch Fever, Off the Hook)
1 BlueBloodedToffee (ProfessorDrapion)

Not Voting (Cytosine and Guanine, Taly, Roden, butterflies, RCEnigma, Malakittens, T-Bone)

With 18 alive, it takes 10 to yeet.

Deadline: (expired on 2022-08-09 19:35:15)

[Best Bird]

Then you're caught for the wrong reasons I guess

[Best Bird]

Hey Roden - can you go back to being like the Roden who existed between posts 9803 and 11126? Plskthx.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

BlueBloodedToffee - Obvtown

butterflies (Nancy Drew 39 and Flea The Magician)

Malakittens - Spewed town from Corwin

Taly - Spewed town from Math

PookyTheMagicalBear - Spewed town from Math

MalcolmTucker
Off the Hook (Gamma Emerald and Marcistar)

ProfessorDrapion - Tracker

Roden - Mason

Rad - Spewed town from Corwin

RCEnigma - Spewed town from Math

butterchurn - Mason

Mislim Bait

JohnnyFarrar - Spewed town from Bella

Cytosine and Guanine (Ircher and RH9) - Likely town from Bella choosing to vote them over Math instead of me?

T-Bone - Semi-confirmed from Pooky

Cat Scratch Fever - Spewed town from Bella (?)

Best Bird

That leaves;

Butterflies
Malcolm
OtH
Mislim
Best Bird

I'm not convinced on CSF, C&G, Rad or Johnny but I think I'm happy to go with this pool right now.

[Rad]

That leaves;

Butterflies
Malcolm
OtH
Mislim
Best Bird

I'm up for Malcolm and starting to consider BB. Reading through his ISO atm.

Hard pass on Butterflies for me, and Nancy reads OTH hard town so I'm not interested in that either. I think Mislim's probably town.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I understand I have to wait for a fair few people to die before I start pushing Butterflies so I just have to be patient with that one.

You shouldn't trust other people's reads either; especially when they're scum

Remember, they had Math at '80% town' and 'hard TR' Bella, too.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I have a really dumb theory about why Klick dropped that I won't even go over until end game, that's probably influencing me some, but I try not to let it.

Me too! I wonder if we have the same reason?!?!

[Cytosine and Guanine]

btw did Luke ever claim/soft his role?

I don't think that Luke hardclaimed anything though he might've softed somewhere.
-Guanine

[Rad]

I have a really dumb theory about why Klick dropped that I won't even go over until end game, that's probably influencing me some, but I try not to let it.

Me too! I wonder if we have the same reason?!?!

Would "Klick the honorable" make sense with your theory?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yes!

[Rad]

This just feels like weak acceptance trying to shake off votes...especially when the game state at the time this was posted was:

Whatever, pointing out that timing is nonsense. I was the first to point out my likely mislim as soon as day started and we saw Luke was the NK. I will do anything I can to shake off votes.

[butterflies]

I'm mostly done with Malcolm's ISO. I don't see anything to rule him out as scum based on the flips we have.

He didn't talk to or about Corwin. He townread Math - 3014, 3943 - but I can see that coming from either town or scum.

With Bella:

Hi Malcolm, we are awake together and i change my mind on your alignment literally half way through your posts sometimes. Can you throw a question or two my way?

Sure.

What's your read on Johnny?
What's your read on Dunn?
What's making you uncertain about my alignment?

Apologies if you've already clarified any of that.

Bella's response (linked in spoiler below):

Spoiler:

Johnny could very easily be scum . I don't see them making much a thread impact and the only thing that sticks out to me is that they seem to be around to get a few page tops but not massively enagge with anything else. Tbf I basically think the same about mala and I get the vibe that a fair few people are town reading her! Johnny is worse than mala for me because I can tell by his post count that he has content but my mind just slides off the slot.

I just spoke to cat about Dunn. I think Dunn is a player i will always have trouble reading. It worries me that some of my scum reads are based on 'tone', but I don't think it's a big an issue as I think : for example, I'm starting to town read t bone!

With you I read your posts and go 'yes, no, what? Yes...' in the same post. This happened a lot around your corwin stuff. It's odd to me because I find most players, especially the vocal ones in this game, are very straight to the point so it's easier to just follow and then say 'yes/no/that's scummy'.

@frog, I hard town read them in the very early game for meta, the thing I found towny has disappeared so would be down, yeah.

^ This is a hedge-y read on Malcolm from Bella (and she was quite hedge-y about Math!).

Neither party followed up on this conversation after that (I checked both ISOs - neither mentioned the other until at least day 2) - though if he were SvS with Bella, I'd be a bit surprised they didn't use this opportunity to get some SvS interactions in.

He's done a lot of Rad pushing, which I'm not really feeling. But if Johnny were scum, I'd also feel a good deal better about Malcolm. Idk that trio feels like a Gordian Knot to me

If hedgeyness is your criteria, then I think this spews Johnny town and it’s hard to tell with Mala but you could possibly be onto something with this.

[butterflies]

btw did Luke ever claim/soft his role?

Also if Mala has a result from last night, she should claim that.

Isn’t he neighbour with Malcolm?

[butterflies]

Bird giving massive "caught for the wrong reasons" vibes when I didn't even say they were scummy but still got defensive

Most games I’ve seen where people say this, the player > rand tends to be town and defensiveness is usually nai.

[Roden]

Hey Roden - can you go back to being like the Roden who existed between posts 9803 and 11126? Plskthx.

You react REALLY badly to pressure as scum, holy shit

[butterflies]

BlueBloodedToffee - Obvtown

butterflies (Nancy Drew 39 and Flea The Magician)

Malakittens - Spewed town from Corwin

Taly - Spewed town from Math

PookyTheMagicalBear - Spewed town from Math

MalcolmTucker
Off the Hook (Gamma Emerald and Marcistar)

ProfessorDrapion - Tracker

Roden - Mason

Rad - Spewed town from Corwin

RCEnigma - Spewed town from Math

butterchurn - Mason

Mislim Bait

JohnnyFarrar - Spewed town from Bella

Cytosine and Guanine (Ircher and RH9) - Likely town from Bella choosing to vote them over Math instead of me?

T-Bone - Semi-confirmed from Pooky

Cat Scratch Fever - Spewed town from Bella (?)

Best Bird

That leaves;

Butterflies
Malcolm
OtH
Mislim
Best Bird

I'm not convinced on CSF, C&G, Rad or Johnny but I think I'm happy to go with this pool right now.

Hello Sherlock. Math tried to kill me but let’s just conveniently ignore that fact.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

He did?

I mean, I thought he tried to kill me but some people still think I'm scum. So, what's your point and where did he try to kill you?

[Roden]

Bird giving massive "caught for the wrong reasons" vibes when I didn't even say they were scummy but still got defensive

Most games I’ve seen where people say this, the player > rand tends to be town and defensiveness is usually nai.

Being defensive over literally nothing and when an accusation hadn't even been made yet doesn't tend to come from town tbh. Town doesn't have a reason to feel guilty over having their name come up, nor do they have a reason to try to shut down conftowns from discussing the game. In fact the last time that happened to me, I was a D1 IC and scum acted the exact same way as Bird here when I pressured them.

[butterflies]

Here's the post-by-post paraphrase/summary of the neighborhood starting with MathBlade's entrance. (I already summarized/paraphrased the posts leading up to MathBlade's entrance in 9386.) I am putting it in spoilers because it's pretty long. If I am being vague, it's because 1) I want to stay pretty clear of the "not quite a copy-paste but dangerously close to being one" line and 2) the question or comment was very likely insignificant and would not be very relevant at this point.

Spoiler: Neighborhood Summary Pages 2-4

27: MathBlade asks what he should look at first as the thread is very large.
28: MathBlade clarifies that 27 is also meant to help sort us.
29: I mention our post restriction to MathBlade and that I cannot help him catch up much.
30: MathBlade asks if it is known that he and us can speak together in private.
31: Guanine responds that the existence of the PT is not public yet.
32: Guanine quotes 31 that he forgot to sign and signs this post.
33: MathBlade says he will crumb the neighborhood.
34: Guanine agrees that crumbing is a good idea.
35: Guanine quotes 34 that he forgot to sign and signs this post.
36: MathBlade posts his first crumb (post #2398).
37: MathBlade posts his second crumb (post #2496).
38: MathBlade posts his third crumb (post #2510).
39: MathBlade says people are avoiding talking about Bell.
40: MathBlade asks us a question and says he can help us save words by posting for us.
41: I respond to the question in 40.
42: Guanine follows up my response in 41.
43: MathBlade says he is looking at vote counts.
44: MathBlade asks who our signatures correspond to.
45: I post some notes I had on the thread. I also respond to MathBlade's question in 44 explaining my view on the matter and letting Guanine decide.
46: MathBlade asks me if he can paraphrase my 45.
47: MathBlade posts his fourth crumb (post #2713).
48: MathBlade says that he posted my 45.
49: MathBlade wants the neighborhood to be public.

50: Guanine, responding to MathBlade's question in 44, says that he has already slipped who is who.
51: Guanine suggests MathBlade just claim his flavor Sun.
52: MathBlade double-checks whether we are okay with him claiming his flavor.
53: MathBlade makes an edit to his post in 52.
54: MathBlade makes another comment relating to 52.
55: MathBlade says he will go ahead and flavor claim.
56: Guanine asks a question to MathBlade.
57: MathBlade asks for Guanine to clarify the context for the question in 56.
58: MathBlade says he has not seen scum Lukewarm before and is hesitant to start a wagon there if Lukewarm is town.
59: Guanine responds and says that he liked Lukewarm's early game.
60: MathBlade asks if we need anything or can give him a reads list.
61: Guanine says he is moving Bell up to null and Dancing Puppets to town. He also mentions that Klick and Frog are still null as well.
62: Guanine says he still has reservations about Bell.
63: MathBlade asks us to clarify what can be shared.
64: MathBlade wonders if it is possible that everyone except Bell is town.
65: Guanine responds that everything from him is shareable.
66: Guanine responds to MathBlade's 64 with the fact that Taly confirmed Bell as Boone.
67: MathBlade responds to Guanine's 66 that it is either a fake claim, or MathBlade's theory is off.
68: MathBlade is frustrated with the game.
69: MathBlade asks us what reads we want to share.
70: I respond to MathBlade's 64 with it being unlikely given how Save the Dragons advertised the game.
71: MathBlade says that he got a bit upset.
72: MathBlade asks us what a long number means.
73: MathBlade agains says he would like for us to give him something to post.
74: I respond to 72 by explaining how Pooky wanted reads Day 1.

75: MathBlade says the scum are the active players. He specifically calls out Dancing Puppets.
76: MathBlade asks us to further explain our Dancing Puppets town read.
77: Guanine responds to 76 with an elaboration.
78: Guanine reiterates that MathBlade can share anything Guanine posts.
79: Guanine says he is at page 172 in the the thread.
80: MathBlade once again asks us to further explain our town read of Dancing Puppets.
81: MathBlade complains that reading the game is hard due to to how quickly the game is progressing.
82: MathBlade explains why he unvoted and asks us to give some scum reads.
83: Guanine talks a bit about Dancing Puppet's 4367.
84: MathBlade says that he is still not convinced by our arguments that Dancing Puppets is town.
85: Guanine states that Roden's claim has removed Roden from Guanine's scum reads.
86: Guanine gives in a bit to MathBlade's 84.
87: MathBlade asks us to give a quick blurb for every player we town read.
88: MathBlade says that he would like to town read Dancing Puppets, but he needs a good reason to do so.
89: Guanine asks MathBlade to clarify 87.
90: MathBlade believes there are scum in the people voting Roden.
91: Guanine posts our list of town reads and reasons why.
92: Guanine makes some corrections to 91.
93: Guanine clarifies that the list reflects most his opinion rather than our collective opinion.
94: MathBlade is somewhat satisfied by what Guanine has given him to work with.
95: Guanine suggests Klick as the potential scum in the Roden voters.
96: MathBlade is okay with wagoning Klick but is worried about how that may be perceived.
97: Guanine suggests the best strategy for wagoning Klick is to combine forces with Bell.
98: MathBlade says that he voted Klick.
99: MathBlade says he is not town reading Bell.

I'll post the other half of the neigbhorhood chat and our thoughts on associations and anti-associations tomorrow.
~Cytosine

VOTE: Enchant
For good measure.

I'm onboard with having Rad limmed next.

I didn't get around to summarizing the rest of the neighborhood, but Guanine and I had agreed that Enchant was scum given Math had put Enchant as "??? null" in Math's read just as Math did for Bella. Rad was also a solid null for MathBlade and never really mentioned; we believe Math's null reads had most of the scum.

Dancing Puppets is probably clear based on what I posted yesterday; looking iver that interaction, it doesn't seem the thing scum Math would do to his partner.
~Cytosine

[BlueBloodedToffee]

88: MathBlade says that he would like to town read Dancing Puppets, but he needs a good reason to do so.

Is the most interesting line.

Did Math actually push this much in thread?

[butterflies]

Bird giving massive "caught for the wrong reasons" vibes when I didn't even say they were scummy but still got defensive

Most games I’ve seen where people say this, the player > rand tends to be town and defensiveness is usually nai.

Being defensive over literally nothing and when an accusation hadn't even been made yet doesn't tend to come from town tbh. Town doesn't have a reason to feel guilty over having their name come up, nor do they have a reason to try to shut down conftowns from discussing the game. In fact the last time that happened to me, I was a D1 IC and scum acted the exact same way as Bird here when I pressured them.

Well what about Airplanes then? Wasn’t that the main reason I almost got run up in that? From what I recall, BB’s scumgame tends to be based off of him pretty much doing nothing but coasting and posting tons of gifs.

[butterflies]

I understand I have to wait for a fair few people to die before I start pushing Butterflies so I just have to be patient with that one.

You shouldn't trust other people's reads either; especially when they're scum

Remember, they had Math at '80% town' and 'hard TR' Bella, too.

You also thought Bella was town and was pushing other slots than Math, so don’t understand this thought process at all.