Open 861: The Turing Test [game over]

[GuiltyLion]

GL is right that i probably do also unvote there as scum, but idk if as scum i actually care to go back and check past games to get a baseline feel for how you play and in the process figure out who you are, since that was done with the intention of sorting whether your reaction was as scummy as it felt or typical for you (dann, here is an example of where doing that ended up being useful!)

if at all id probably do it before voting you in the first place to see if it would be dangerous to provoke you for a reaction in the way that i did (and i would have figured out that yes it would be)

fire do you want to join this Roden wagon

[Loki Dokie]

Why does scum!fire unvote me based on correctly guessing my main and it seems you have as well? Wouldn’t it make way more sense for scum!fire to keep pretending he has no idea who I am? Because there’s absolutely no way I would ever know the difference.

1. you're a tremendously difficult slot for scum to push if you're town, and 2. fire may have felt other players would figure out who you are and expect them to figure it out as well, which becomes suspicious if fire pretends not to

That’s true. But it could also mean he unvoted me for the exact same reason he claimed to: that the reason he voted me is typical for me based on knowledge of my main.

[fireisredsir]

fire do you want to join this Roden wagon

im not sure if i trust you but i trust dann so sure

VOTE: Roden

[Loki Dokie]

Loki how would you describe your scumgame? since you are a heavy meta player I'd like to understand what you think are the meta differences between your own town and scumplay

It’s more of what I don’t do as scum as opposed to what I do do. Like I do a lot more obvious townie things as town, especially as the game progresses.

The fact that I already got as many votes as I did, is a strong indicator that I’m town here fwiw because that extremely rarely ever happens to me as scum which Roden would definitely know if he knew who I was.

[fireisredsir]

fwiw im not really a fan of the whole half-secret-alt and half-using-arguments-like "this person would townread me if they knew who i was"

i don't think you can have both and it's difficult to interact with

[fireisredsir]

GL did you have any thoughts on my response to you? ik going back and forth in walls is not going to be useful, but like, any reaction at all?

[Vivax]

I oppose Roden lunch and Furtive is mafia
Which will probably not make a difference

[furtiveglance]

I also have played with scum!furtive before (but he doesn’t know it) and it’s not a lot to go on yet but he seems different here than in that game.

Very excite.

[Loki Dokie]

I oppose Roden lunch and Furtive is mafia
Which will probably not make a difference

I don’t think he is because unless his scumgame has drastically improved, I get townpings from his posts here. Like he was flaming obvscum in that game and I don’t think someone’s scumgame improves that quickly.

And why is Roden town? It’s pretty much a coin flip which of you had the most suss takes on me.

[Loki Dokie]

fwiw im not really a fan of the whole half-secret-alt and half-using-arguments-like "this person would townread me if they knew who i was"

i don't think you can have both and it's difficult to interact with

Fair but I still like doing that. It gives me a lot more info that way.

[furtiveglance]

I oppose Roden lunch and Furtive is mafia
Which will probably not make a difference

I don’t think he is because unless his scumgame has drastically improved, I get townpings from his posts here. Like he was flaming obvscum in that game and I don’t think someone’s scumgame improves that quickly.

And why is Roden town? It’s pretty much a coin flip which of you had the most suss takes on me.

Was my alignment revealed to you at gamestart? If not, there's 2 people you could be I think.

[Radical Rat]

Also, I want to clarify my understanding of that post in general - RR, are you using "human"/"AI" as stand-ins for "town"/"mafia", or are you just making a joke about the flavor and Bell's comment as opposed to making a read on me?

I'm doing both. Human/AI are the faction names here, and I'm using them as such. However, talking about how great the AI is and how much humans suck is a flavor joke, where I've been pretending to be an AI that really hates humans pretending to be human nonetheless.

I'll drop it if it's actually affecting the ability for people to read my posts though.

[furtiveglance]

As fun as that little minigame is, I said Roden was mafia before anyone else voted him so I'm happy to vote there. I also think Vivax is mafia, and I think Dannflor and Bell are town.

[Loki Dokie]

I oppose Roden lunch and Furtive is mafia
Which will probably not make a difference

I don’t think he is because unless his scumgame has drastically improved, I get townpings from his posts here. Like he was flaming obvscum in that game and I don’t think someone’s scumgame improves that quickly.

And why is Roden town? It’s pretty much a coin flip which of you had the most suss takes on me.

Was my alignment revealed to you at gamestart? If not, there's 2 people you could be I think.

Yeah but I would have sr you regardless, even without that mech.

[furtiveglance]

LMFAO I was such obvious mafia - it was literally revealed to you!

[Vivax]

As fun as that little minigame is, I said Roden was mafia before anyone else voted him so I'm happy to vote there. I also think Vivax is mafia, and I think Dannflor and Bell are town.

Why no read on Loki?
If town I highly advise to pay attention to who‘s pulling strings in here.
Cause it‘s neither of us.

Your reason to SR me is still wrong.

[Dannflor]

I oppose Roden lunch and Furtive is mafia
Which will probably not make a difference

I also oppose cannibalism

[GuiltyLion]

GL did you have any thoughts on my response to you? ik going back and forth in walls is not going to be useful, but like, any reaction at all?

I felt like the main thing you did in that reply is downplay the strength of your townread ("increases the probability of her being town", "this part is a guess"), which is fine, not really AI one way or the other IMO, either you're town and we miscommunicated or you're scum and you're shifting the argument/goalposts. by changing it to a probabilistic argument you're retconning your post a bit ("if ari doesn't talk about reads, she is

more likely to be scum

" is a different statement - that isn't what you said in 44) and I still think you're making a logic error - just because someone doesn't do a thing that you think would make them scum or more likely to be scum, does not mean they are less likely to be scum! but I didn't think replying with any of this would advance the conversation anymore and I'm more interested in what stances other people take on it at this point. You can probably guess from me not voting you that I'm still entertaining worlds where you're town

[Vivax]

I oppose Roden lunch and Furtive is mafia
Which will probably not make a difference

I also oppose cannibalism

Okay?

[GuiltyLion]

sorry EBWOP just to be clear, I said "if Ari doesn't talk about reads" when short handing your 44 but to be precise and accurate I should have said "if Ari doesn't talk about keeping reads secret**", which does change the meaning, and I knew what you said in 44 I was just lazy and hasty when calling back, but I don't mean to change or mischaracterize your claim

[furtiveglance]

As fun as that little minigame is, I said Roden was mafia before anyone else voted him so I'm happy to vote there. I also think Vivax is mafia, and I think Dannflor and Bell are town.

Why no read on Loki?
If town I highly advise to pay attention to who‘s pulling strings in here.
Cause it‘s neither of us.

Your reason to SR me is still wrong.

1) I don't townread Loki, all they did was complain they got wagoned and said they wouldn't have got voted on their other account (who cares?)

2) If anyone is pulling strings it's Dannflor. I also townread Dannflor initially but now I'm worried that mafia could create a mafia UTR quite easily since there are 5 of them, and am slightly paranoid that's happening here. Leaning town on Dannflor though.

3 Explain why you wanted to know whether I thought it was you/Loki or you TMIing Loki as town. How does that help you if you're town?

[Loki Dokie]

LMFAO I was such obvious mafia - it was literally revealed to you!

But I would have sr you even without that like I did Enchant.

[Loki Dokie]

As fun as that little minigame is, I said Roden was mafia before anyone else voted him so I'm happy to vote there. I also think Vivax is mafia, and I think Dannflor and Bell are town.

Why no read on Loki?
If town I highly advise to pay attention to who‘s pulling strings in here.
Cause it‘s neither of us.

Your reason to SR me is still wrong.

1) I don't townread Loki, all they did was complain they got wagoned and said they wouldn't have got voted on their other account (who cares?)

2) If anyone is pulling strings it's Dannflor. I also townread Dannflor initially but now I'm worried that mafia could create a mafia UTR quite easily since there are 5 of them, and am slightly paranoid that's happening here. Leaning town on Dannflor though.

3 Explain why you wanted to know whether I thought it was you/Loki or you TMIing Loki as town. How does that help you if you're town?

Damn right I complained because the reasoning for it was shitty.

[Dannflor]

I think the main thing GL picked up on with fire that appealed to me was that they seemed to have a post-hoc justification for a read that didn't come off to me as an entirely natural train of though. Rather, it felt like it could have been someone searching for a reason to support that read. The whole logical error part of the argument is less enticing to me. Town make logical errors in their thinking all the time, it's more the feeling that it wasn't a natural train of thought for fire that lead me to like GL's argument.

I'll chicken out and say fire is still a pretty mixed read. They strike me as a good player and while the stuff GL is putting pressure on has me suspicious I think I need a much larger volume of content from them to develop a better read.

Meanwhile, Roden's pop-in was lacking a lot to be desired. It took the form of that cookie-cutter scum pop-in that I tend towards a lot when I have a red PM.
1. place a vote down on an easy to push townie
2. throw out a read for content
3. make one more post about anything to appear natural

more votes here

[furtiveglance]

Enchant literally outted themself in that game it was so frustrating they hammered town then TMIed them as townw immediately and our other teammate left and despite all that I had the correct solve and my teammates outvoted me arghhhhhhhhoig;zdxncm/W;S

Ok let's stop talking about that game.