Open 861: The Turing Test [game over]

[Loki Dokie]

Loki Dokie

, you are creating artificial and unnecessary pressure for a

Roden

wagon. It's true that his ISO isn't very towny, but this is not obvscum. If you're town, then take a step back and let him explain himself.

I have a hard time believing Greeting posts this if Roden is town and Greeting is scum. It doesn't feel white-knighty in the least

I did a brief metadive and that entrance was consistent with his scumgames but if he can prove me wrong on that, I’ll consider reacessing.

I never said Greeting was wking Roden? I said he was being extremely hedgey on my Roden push. But even if I were to switch my vote it wouldn’t be on Kitty who I really think is town here and Roden mindmelding on that, only increases my confidence on that read.

Kitty is usually the easiest push in pretty much every game and while he hasn’t posted a lot, I like the content he has posted so far.

[KittyTacky]

i think furtive can be town for being funny

he wasn't very funny as scum

maybe more that he seems relaxed here

Fine, I'll look into that. Though tbf even if I put

furtiveglance

in my PoE, deep down I think it would be wiser to eliminate a more obvious scum today.

Really weird comment. I don't agree with RR being 'obvious scum'.

I think they’re both scum and Kitty is the cw to scum.

Kitty is pretty much getting voted for low activity which is totally nia for him.

I'm Lurkasaurus Rex when not hyperposting to catch up as either alignment.

[KittyTacky]

Dear God, this whole "I don't get scumread" thing is insufferable.
I don't think it's necessarily scummy, because the same thing happened somewhat in Terminator, but it IS obnoxious and makes the game way harder to follow for anyone else.


Anyway,
VOTE: Greeting
Ignoring the actual substance of posts in favor of superficial "tells" is probably as scummy as it's gonna get D1.

Did a reread of the whole game so far, yeah I can sheep this.
VOTE: Greeting

[Aristeia]

I don't understand the Roden wagon. He's got three posts, and none of them strike me as particularly scummy.

Yeah same. Roden is very null to me.

I don't understand how you can sus the loki voters and also be null on roden

this feels like a contradiction to me.

I'm not heavily scumreading the Loki voters. And explain how is it a contradiction?

like um

which loki voters are you exactly sussing?

The ones who actually gave content so far. I can't read someone who made so few posts at all regardless of if they made a naked vote or not.

name names

[Loki Dokie]

If someone consistently does a specific thing as scum but never as town, occams razor says they’re probably scum. If Greeting can link a towngame disproving this, I’ll reacess.

[Loki Dokie]

Subject: Mini Theme 2264: Fusion Upick | Post Game

True, but in the case of Miller I think it would be to the benefit of the Mafia to out such a role. If Mafia gets miller, they can have a potential 2nd person back up their claim because they received miller as well.

Implying nothing, especially this early in the game. Just an observation.

Isn't Miller a specifically pro-town role? Wiki says is it's just a townie who looks dirty.

Also, if Mafia have a Miller, wouldn't that mean it's a mafia who looks green, and why on Earth would they out that? Unless I misunderstood something.

There's a different thing that interests me here and it's

who

submitted Miller as a pick, since it is bound to influence their role as well. I can't imagine anyone wanting to be a Miller.

Greeting apparently doesn’t have a problem being really obvtown either judging from this post.

[Loki Dokie]

Subject: Mini 2260: Achromatic Calamity || Game Over

Galron

, where are you?

Present. I refused to touch a PC, phone or anything over most of the weekend. Well a phone a little bit I think. I was a bachelor all last week, and that makes me a little antsy and throws me out of my usual goings on.

What should I be focusing on in the game so far? I've read a few pages, and I want to stab the Hatters for some reason, maybe because they didn't invite anahit for tea, which would've made for a more pleasant conversation. I'm getting the impression that the Hatters are using colorful language to be intentionally misunderstood. But maybe I'm just not following what they're getting at.

Welcome back! It's good to take a break from everything from time to time.

So far my experience of this game has been rather confusing.

Mad Hatters Tea Party

seems to intentionally keep using overly sophisticated language.

anahit

has somehow managed to make 51 posts, which is more than 25% of all posts in the game. I guess these two players caught the most of my attention so far, but I don't know what to think of it.

Apparently, some players are building an actual case on

Radical Rat

, my RVS vote and I wanna hear that.

Again, look how extremely townie Greeting is here. He’s so believable and genuine.

[Loki Dokie]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=36081

Okay, he doesn’t make that opening every scumgame but still haven’t found a towngame where he did.

[Loki Dokie]

Checked multiple games now, still no town game with that kind of entrance. Town!Greeting is very townie is pretty much every towngame I looked at and usually asks lots of good questions.

Didn’t notice any weird hegeness or inconsistent posting either but I didn’t really check for that and again. I’m open to Greeting refuting either my case or anyone else’s but so far, his reaction has been not to engage with any of the reasoning.

[Loki Dokie]

Ari, Dann, Loki are mafia on an incomplete reread.

Roden, Furtive maybe town from page 8 behaviour.

Fireisred is peculiar.

I would serious like to understand how you think it makes an iota of sense that any of us are aligned. It’s extremely obvious that I didn’t like how Dann interacted with me initially and Ari and I are not even on the same page wrt Kitty/Greeting.

If I could be persuaded to switch my vote, it could be to you because in NEP we were pretty much mindmelding on everything and Your play here has been really odd: Like insisting Roden was town, then suddenly putting him at E-2. Then if Greeting’s RR case wasn’t bad enough you decide to sheep it.

So where I’m at, is if I can be persuaded to switch my vote, your iso isn’t exactly pinging me with extreme confidence that you’re actually town here, either.

[furtiveglance]

Dear God, this whole "I don't get scumread" thing is insufferable.
I don't think it's necessarily scummy, because the same thing happened somewhat in Terminator, but it IS obnoxious and makes the game way harder to follow for anyone else.


Anyway,
VOTE: Greeting
Ignoring the actual substance of posts in favor of superficial "tells" is probably as scummy as it's gonna get D1.

Did a reread of the whole game so far, yeah I can sheep this.
VOTE: Greeting

Seems a bit "checked who the other wagon was, yeah I can self pres." unless you give some reasons why you're voting Greeting.

[Vivax]

Ari, Dann, Loki are mafia on an incomplete reread.

Roden, Furtive maybe town from page 8 behaviour.

Fireisred is peculiar.

I would serious like to understand how you think it makes an iota of sense that any of us are aligned. It’s extremely obvious that I didn’t like how Dann interacted with me initially and Ari and I are not even on the same page wrt Kitty/Greeting.

If I could be persuaded to switch my vote, it could be to you because in NEP we were pretty much mindmelding on everything and Your play here has been really odd: Like insisting Roden was town, then suddenly putting him at E-2. Then if Greeting’s RR case wasn’t bad enough you decide to sheep it.

So where I’m at, is if I can be persuaded to switch my vote, your iso isn’t exactly pinging me with extreme confidence that you’re actually town here, either.

I understand. But I'm very confident about those reads and I would rather break than bend to threats of omgus.
Fact of the matter is that I've probably looked scummy mostly to people who don't have perfect information, which makes them town, or naturally antagonistic towards me but still town. And I realized that those aren't worth putting in the effort to convince them otherwise.

[Dannflor]

Vivax why are you assuming I should know what Kuti is like as a player

[Vivax]

Vivax why are you assuming I should know what Kuti is like as a player

Because you are a competent mafia player. As town seeing someone come in and talking about sharing photos and being generally LHF type, your first reaction would probably be to wait and see or focus on other players first, not force a caselet without followup.

[Dannflor]

That’s a bad assumption about my playstyle

[Vivax]

That’s a bad assumption about my playstyle

You have no reason to say otherwise, so shrug

[Dannflor]

For the record I think Vivax is probably town

I still have doubts about fire, but that fish can be fried another time

[Greeting]

I don't think an apology from me is necessary, but I do probably owe everyone an explanation. I won't be going into much details, because I don't really like talking about it, and I don't really want to host an AmA right now, but unfortunately this impacted my play in this game and so I've kinda made it game-relevant.

I have a certain condition, which, when triggered, causes me to react in a way that others would describe (and have described) as a "massive overreaction". I can be erratic and my thoughts can get chaotic. Most of the time I have it under control and can manage the triggers, but sometimes I don't. I don't always know if the chain reaction is happening or not. It does tend to spiral out of control quite easily, especially in stressful situations, is quite impactful and let's say that I kinda drift away.

I should have stopped posting before I got passive aggressive, and I can own up to this mistake. But not to my "massive overreactions".

As for its' relevance to the game, I would say that when I'm mafia I tend to have my emotions more under control than not. I know that I have to watch what I say more, because any inconsistency can be used against me. When I'm town, I just don't really care, I play how I feel like playing atm.

It's, of course, up to you whether you believe this or not. I won't be offended if you don't buy it, but it's just the truth.

[Greeting]

VOTE: Greeting

for some reason I thought there were like 5 voters

Here, I can reach out. One of my biggest issues is that I really don't vibe with your reasoning on Rat at all - I think regardless of Rat's alignment, he as a person thought it would be fun to act as a computer for the beginning of the game. I've played with him a few times before, and I also still weirdly have a memory of reading this particular post in a very old game of his and finding it really funny. He has a sense of humor.

What I don't understand is why you seem particularly hung up on this idea that it can only be a front to mask awkwardness at the start of the game. Rat is an experienced player, I'm sure he has scumgames in the past where he didn't need to use such a front. It's just really easy for me to imagine a world where town!Rat opens the way he opened this game, it doesn't strike me as alignment indicative at all. but it feels like you're locked in on this reason you have and I don't feel you considering the alternative town!Rat world, which makes me think it's driven by agenda.

Can you recall and link me to any town games in your past where you locked on someone early game for a reason in a similar way (doesn't have to be specifically using a charade/front, could be any reason at all)? If you can show me a town game or two where you did a similar thing, push someone early for something I might find wholly NAI, it might help me see this as a playstyle issue rather than an alignment indicative one.

I also noticed Loki said you opened differently here than in past games, and I think one of Loki's strengths is accurately feeling out different meta vibes between games, so you could use this as a means of addressing that point against you as well. I felt your 402 was kinda snarky and dismissive - you didn't even ask what games he looked at

I already did the best I can do about the

Radical Rat

read in 459. I won't give anything more than I gave out there, and if that's not enough then there literally is nothing more I can do about it.

The comment in 402 was totally snarky and dismissive, because in my opinion, it's quite ridiculous to pre-decide that someone is scum because of an opening post. If this read is exemplary of

Loki Dokie

's strength of reads then well... let me not.

All of my town (and scum) games are compiled on my wiki page for your convenience. Browse away.

[Greeting]

Is there a discussion you WILL have?

That depends, if someone is coming to discuss with an open mind then sure. But if someone has already pre-decided my alignment then no, there is nothing to discuss, and all that is left is to vote me out. I have played enough games to know that changing that person's mind is a waste of time.

Have you considered that even if you fail to change someone's mind, the interactions you leave behind may be useful for the surviving Town?

I have. And then reminded myself that town almost never listens to the words of dead townies.

I will, however, continue to scumhunt for as long as I am in the game, and might reply if I feel like the interaction will be worthwhile.

[furtiveglance]

I don't think an apology from me is necessary, but I do probably owe everyone an explanation. I won't be going into much details, because I don't really like talking about it, and I don't really want to host an AmA right now, but unfortunately this impacted my play in this game and so I've kinda made it game-relevant.

I have a certain condition, which, when triggered, causes me to react in a way that others would describe (and have described) as a "massive overreaction". I can be erratic and my thoughts can get chaotic. Most of the time I have it under control and can manage the triggers, but sometimes I don't. I don't always know if the chain reaction is happening or not. It does tend to spiral out of control quite easily, especially in stressful situations, is quite impactful and let's say that I kinda drift away.

I should have stopped posting before I got passive aggressive, and I can own up to this mistake. But not to my "massive overreactions".

As for its' relevance to the game, I would say that when I'm mafia I tend to have my emotions more under control than not. I know that I have to watch what I say more, because any inconsistency can be used against me. When I'm town, I just don't really care, I play how I feel like playing atm.

It's, of course, up to you whether you believe this or not. I won't be offended if you don't buy it, but it's just the truth.

I don't really like this kind of stuff, I feel like it blurs the line, like a trust tell.

It's like "sorry for being emotional, I have a condition, it's because I'm always like this as town".

Ok I won't vote you then.

Cue postgame...oh you were mafia. *thinks*........well played I guess.

Know what I mean?

[Greeting]

I don't really like this kind of stuff, I feel like it blurs the line, like a trust tell.

It's like "sorry for being emotional, I have a condition, it's because I'm always like this as town".

Ok I won't vote you then.

Cue postgame...oh you were mafia. *thinks*........well played I guess.

Know what I mean?

If you think that I'm mafia and this was a charade then by all means go ahead. I just said I won't take it personally, but I figured that if I want to aid the town cause then I shouldn't be hiding it.

Because then everyone will be like oh, why is he so calm and collected now when yesterday he was so snarky and aggressive.

[Greeting]

Anyway, I think it's really interesting that

Vivax

is so hesitant about jumping on my wagon. I am an easy lim in this game, this day could have ended while I was in hiatus with the support of some townies. I actually think he might want to avoid looking bad when I flip town.

[Greeting]

I think KittyTacky is a better vote tbh Bell

VOTE: Kitty

Why do you think he's scum?

[Vivax]

Anyway, I think it's really interesting that

Vivax

is so hesitant about jumping on my wagon. I am an easy lim in this game, this day could have ended while I was in hiatus with the support of some townies. I actually think he might want to avoid looking bad when I flip town.

Nah, I just sympathize with unpopular takes as town