Open 861: The Turing Test [game over]

[Greeting]

I don't really like this kind of stuff, I feel like it blurs the line, like a trust tell.

It's like "sorry for being emotional, I have a condition, it's because I'm always like this as town".

Ok I won't vote you then.

Cue postgame...oh you were mafia. *thinks*........well played I guess.

Know what I mean?

If you think that I'm mafia and this was a charade then by all means go ahead. I just said I won't take it personally, but I figured that if I want to aid the town cause then I shouldn't be hiding it.

Because then everyone will be like oh, why is he so calm and collected now when yesterday he was so snarky and aggressive.

There are also a few arguments against this being a trust tell:

- I do not choose to do this;
- I do not choose when to get triggered;
- I may also get triggered when scum, it just happens less often, because I play my scum games with an, obviously, different mindset. Plus I don't really have many scum games in here so there's not a lot of examples;
- Most of the times I get it under control and sometimes I don't. This time I was unlucky.

But I understand the doubts. Sadly, there is nothing I can do about it. All I can say is that this stuff is hard to fake.

[Greeting]

Anyway, I think it's really interesting that

Vivax

is so hesitant about jumping on my wagon. I am an easy lim in this game, this day could have ended while I was in hiatus with the support of some townies. I actually think he might want to avoid looking bad when I flip town.

Nah, I just sympathize with unpopular takes as town

Very well. Looking back before I made post 567, what was so towny about me?

[Aristeia]

I think KittyTacky is a better vote tbh Bell

VOTE: Kitty

Why do you think he's scum?

He is shading without specificity - which tends to be scum going through the motions rather than actually thinking about who is mafia

[Vivax]

Anyway, I think it's really interesting that

Vivax

is so hesitant about jumping on my wagon. I am an easy lim in this game, this day could have ended while I was in hiatus with the support of some townies. I actually think he might want to avoid looking bad when I flip town.

Nah, I just sympathize with unpopular takes as town

Very well. Looking back before I made post 567, what was so towny about me?

It was rather from observing some people's reactions to me just handing out a TR to you, then rushing a vote on you, then me rethinking the game entirely.
When I feel like I'm being driven to be on a specific person by my surroundings, I start doubting the game state and look in other places.
Scumreading you earned me absence of pressure over townreading you, so I figured that someone was trying to use peer pressure to manipulate me.

[Radical Rat]

I don't think an apology from me is necessary, but I do probably owe everyone an explanation. I won't be going into much details, because I don't really like talking about it, and I don't really want to host an AmA right now, but unfortunately this impacted my play in this game and so I've kinda made it game-relevant.

I have a certain condition, which, when triggered, causes me to react in a way that others would describe (and have described) as a "massive overreaction". I can be erratic and my thoughts can get chaotic. Most of the time I have it under control and can manage the triggers, but sometimes I don't. I don't always know if the chain reaction is happening or not. It does tend to spiral out of control quite easily, especially in stressful situations, is quite impactful and let's say that I kinda drift away.

I should have stopped posting before I got passive aggressive, and I can own up to this mistake. But not to my "massive overreactions".

As for its' relevance to the game, I would say that when I'm mafia I tend to have my emotions more under control than not. I know that I have to watch what I say more, because any inconsistency can be used against me. When I'm town, I just don't really care, I play how I feel like playing atm.

It's, of course, up to you whether you believe this or not. I won't be offended if you don't buy it, but it's just the truth.

I don't really like this kind of stuff, I feel like it blurs the line, like a trust tell.

It's like "sorry for being emotional, I have a condition, it's because I'm always like this as town".

Ok I won't vote you then.

Cue postgame...oh you were mafia. *thinks*........well played I guess.

Know what I mean?

I'm fairly certain this would count as lying about IRL circumstances, which is against site rules.

That said, he didn't say it only happens as Town and never as scum, which definitely would be approaching Trust Tell category, so I'm not saying we report them for flipping red or anything. Just that we should take it as good faith for now.

[Vivax]

Well, fireisredsir was the exception to that. They asked me about my vote on Greeting.
But being someone who wasn't embedded in more associated people interactions, I figured it was a genuine townie player with some takes worth considering.
Antagonistic town players tend to attach their understanding of my choices to pushes on me and enquire more superficially about it.

[furtiveglance]

I don't think an apology from me is necessary, but I do probably owe everyone an explanation. I won't be going into much details, because I don't really like talking about it, and I don't really want to host an AmA right now, but unfortunately this impacted my play in this game and so I've kinda made it game-relevant.

I have a certain condition, which, when triggered, causes me to react in a way that others would describe (and have described) as a "massive overreaction". I can be erratic and my thoughts can get chaotic. Most of the time I have it under control and can manage the triggers, but sometimes I don't. I don't always know if the chain reaction is happening or not. It does tend to spiral out of control quite easily, especially in stressful situations, is quite impactful and let's say that I kinda drift away.

I should have stopped posting before I got passive aggressive, and I can own up to this mistake. But not to my "massive overreactions".

As for its' relevance to the game, I would say that when I'm mafia I tend to have my emotions more under control than not. I know that I have to watch what I say more, because any inconsistency can be used against me. When I'm town, I just don't really care, I play how I feel like playing atm.

It's, of course, up to you whether you believe this or not. I won't be offended if you don't buy it, but it's just the truth.

I don't really like this kind of stuff, I feel like it blurs the line, like a trust tell.

It's like "sorry for being emotional, I have a condition, it's because I'm always like this as town".

Ok I won't vote you then.

Cue postgame...oh you were mafia. *thinks*........well played I guess.

Know what I mean?

I'm fairly certain this would count as lying about IRL circumstances, which is against site rules.

That said, he didn't say it only happens as Town and never as scum, which definitely would be approaching Trust Tell category, so I'm not saying we report them for flipping red or anything. Just that we should take it as good faith for now.

This is what I mean - if your IRL circumstances are your self-towncase, and it's against site rules to lie about IRL circumstances, it feels like a loophole. Lying is part of the game anyway, I don't agree that you shouldn't be able to lie about IRL stuff. IRL stuff should never be relevant anyway.

[Radical Rat]

This is what I mean - if your IRL circumstances are your self-towncase, and it's against site rules to lie about IRL circumstances, it feels like a loophole. Lying is part of the game anyway, I don't agree that you shouldn't be able to lie about IRL stuff. IRL stuff should never be relevant anyway.

I'm not looking at it as a towncase, but regardless I have a strong fundamental disagreement with this. A discussion best left for another time though.

[Radical Rat]

For now, @Greeting

Two points I would like you to address with a clear head now:
1. Do you have a towngame to refute Loki's meta read on you?
2. Why does scum!me drop the gimmick for readability Before getting sussed for it?

[Loki Dokie]

Anyway, I think it's really interesting that

Vivax

is so hesitant about jumping on my wagon. I am an easy lim in this game, this day could have ended while I was in hiatus with the support of some townies. I actually think he might want to avoid looking bad when I flip town.

Nah, I just sympathize with unpopular takes as town

Very well. Looking back before I made post 567, what was so towny about me?

UNVOTE:

I still think you could be scum but your recent posting isn’t horrible so meh.

[Loki Dokie]

I don't think an apology from me is necessary, but I do probably owe everyone an explanation. I won't be going into much details, because I don't really like talking about it, and I don't really want to host an AmA right now, but unfortunately this impacted my play in this game and so I've kinda made it game-relevant.

I have a certain condition, which, when triggered, causes me to react in a way that others would describe (and have described) as a "massive overreaction". I can be erratic and my thoughts can get chaotic. Most of the time I have it under control and can manage the triggers, but sometimes I don't. I don't always know if the chain reaction is happening or not. It does tend to spiral out of control quite easily, especially in stressful situations, is quite impactful and let's say that I kinda drift away.

I should have stopped posting before I got passive aggressive, and I can own up to this mistake. But not to my "massive overreactions".

As for its' relevance to the game, I would say that when I'm mafia I tend to have my emotions more under control than not. I know that I have to watch what I say more, because any inconsistency can be used against me. When I'm town, I just don't really care, I play how I feel like playing atm.

It's, of course, up to you whether you believe this or not. I won't be offended if you don't buy it, but it's just the truth.

I don't really like this kind of stuff, I feel like it blurs the line, like a trust tell.

It's like "sorry for being emotional, I have a condition, it's because I'm always like this as town".

Ok I won't vote you then.

Cue postgame...oh you were mafia. *thinks*........well played I guess.

Know what I mean?

I'm fairly certain this would count as lying about IRL circumstances, which is against site rules.

That said, he didn't say it only happens as Town and never as scum, which definitely would be approaching Trust Tell category, so I'm not saying we report them for flipping red or anything. Just that we should take it as good faith for now.

This is what I mean - if your IRL circumstances are your self-towncase, and it's against site rules to lie about IRL circumstances, it feels like a loophole. Lying is part of the game anyway, I don't agree that you shouldn't be able to lie about IRL stuff. IRL stuff should never be relevant anyway.

You are obviously unfamiliar with the MOMO ban. My personal opinion is lying about rl is hella stupid irrespective of one’s alignment and yeah strongly disagree with this.

[Loki Dokie]

Anyway, I think it's really interesting that

Vivax

is so hesitant about jumping on my wagon. I am an easy lim in this game, this day could have ended while I was in hiatus with the support of some townies. I actually think he might want to avoid looking bad when I flip town.

Nah, I just sympathize with unpopular takes as town

You didn’t in NEP.

[Loki Dokie]

For the record I think Vivax is probably town

I still have doubts about fire, but that fish can be fried another time

Why do you think town!Vivax goes from insisting Roden is town to suddenly putting them at e2?

Did you ever explain this? @Vivax?

[Loki Dokie]

Anyway, I think it's really interesting that

Vivax

is so hesitant about jumping on my wagon. I am an easy lim in this game, this day could have ended while I was in hiatus with the support of some townies. I actually think he might want to avoid looking bad when I flip town.

Nah, I just sympathize with unpopular takes as town

This exchange really intersts me since I’m currently not tr either but they don’t look aligned from this, so want to hear more from this before I revote.

[Greeting]

I understand why

furtiveglance

is annoyed with this. I actually had to sub out of a game in here in the past, because I didn't accept mental health as a valid excuse and unknowingly offended other players. Oh, and of course I made a fuss about it. It's quite ironic when I think about it, but I felt angry when I saw that there's other people who use theirs as an excuse while I hide mine. But looking back, it is and was just the right thing to do.

Just so you know, I would much rather be able to stay ice cold in all mafia games at all times. Absolutely nothing about what I said of my condition is fun and I do not wish it to anyone. Oh, and lying about mental health just to get townread is really vile.

Besides, there are many instances of me getting more emotional than usual in my past games. You didn't know the reason then, you know now.

But, if you consider most of 567 only an explanation for my behavioral patterns and just the last two paragraphs as an actual towncase, then you should be good to go.

I will address the other posts shortly.

[Greeting]

I think KittyTacky is a better vote tbh Bell

VOTE: Kitty

Why do you think he's scum?

He is shading without specificity - which tends to be scum going through the motions rather than actually thinking about who is mafia

That is true, he is jumping around here.

Nonetheless, the wording and the content of his posts matches the past instances where I've seen him as town. Post 368 actually gained him a soft townread from me. The statement itself is, in my opinion, completely untrue, but the fact that

KittyTacky

would even want to exhibit such a viewpoint lessened the chances of him being scum in my mind dramatically.

[Loki Dokie]

I agree with that too. One should never lie about either rl or mental health. Whenever rl pr mental/physical health gets brought up, I always believe it but I don’t alignment read it, one way or the other.

[Vivax]

Comparing FG behaviour to Loki behaviour
Unlikely aligned from their behaviour towards me

FG being visibly unamused by Greeting
Loki showing understanding

Which one is more likely mafia? Should be FG right? Acting like a misyeet just noped himself.
While Loki is casual about it. Why should it worry a townie?

The trick is in thinking whether not just the players, but also the game could lie to you.
So I invert the apparently obvious conclusion, and voilá

VOTE: Loki Dokie

I prefer to not comment on a rules topic in regards to Greetings posts.

[Loki Dokie]

VOTE: Vivax

Thanks for making this super easy.

[Loki Dokie]

Comparing FG behaviour to Loki behaviour
Unlikely aligned from their behaviour towards me

FG being visibly unamused by Greeting
Loki showing understanding

Which one is more likely mafia? Should be FG right? Acting like a misyeet just noped himself.
While Loki is casual about it. Why should it worry a townie?

The trick is in thinking whether not just the players, but also the game could lie to you.
So I invert the apparently obvious conclusion, and voilá

VOTE: Loki Dokie

I prefer to not comment on a rules topic in regards to Greetings posts.

I would seriously love to know in what universe that makes me or ANYONE for that matter, scum?

One bs nonsensical take after the other. This sounds a lot like your play in Terminator.

[Greeting]

Anyway, I think it's really interesting that

Vivax

is so hesitant about jumping on my wagon. I am an easy lim in this game, this day could have ended while I was in hiatus with the support of some townies. I actually think he might want to avoid looking bad when I flip town.

Nah, I just sympathize with unpopular takes as town

Very well. Looking back before I made post 567, what was so towny about me?

It was rather from observing some people's reactions to me just handing out a TR to you, then rushing a vote on you, then me rethinking the game entirely.
When I feel like I'm being driven to be on a specific person by my surroundings, I start doubting the game state and look in other places.
Scumreading you earned me absence of pressure over townreading you, so I figured that someone was trying to use peer pressure to manipulate me.

I... don't remember anyone townreading me in this game when I jumped in and then switching. As a matter of fact, my impression is that I got widely scumread almost instantly (358, 360).

If I remember correctly, it

Loki Dokie

who pressured others the most into jumping on certain people. The rest didn't really seem like trying to force others to vote me. They just built lengthy cases and that's it.

Care to elaborate?

Pedit: Do you think that

Loki Dokie

is scum for exerting a lot of pressure on the current wagon they're building? I feel like in 406 he might have wanted to bait me into jump on

Roden

without even thinking if it's a good read just so I could earn myself a townread in his eyes. What kind of town play is this?

[Loki Dokie]

Fyi, since I think furtive is probably town here, this looks like a possible chaining of misalims to me. After I flip town, Vivax can then push furtive.

@Dann why is he town? He is literally voting me for being sympathetic to Greeting’s mental health issues, which had absolutely jack to do with why I unvoted.

[Loki Dokie]

Anyway, I think it's really interesting that

Vivax

is so hesitant about jumping on my wagon. I am an easy lim in this game, this day could have ended while I was in hiatus with the support of some townies. I actually think he might want to avoid looking bad when I flip town.

Nah, I just sympathize with unpopular takes as town

Very well. Looking back before I made post 567, what was so towny about me?

It was rather from observing some people's reactions to me just handing out a TR to you, then rushing a vote on you, then me rethinking the game entirely.
When I feel like I'm being driven to be on a specific person by my surroundings, I start doubting the game state and look in other places.
Scumreading you earned me absence of pressure over townreading you, so I figured that someone was trying to use peer pressure to manipulate me.

I... don't remember anyone townreading me in this game when I jumped in and then switching. As a matter of fact, my impression is that I got widely scumread almost instantly (358, 360).

If I remember correctly, it

Loki Dokie

who pressured others the most into jumping on certain people. The rest didn't really seem like trying to force others to vote me. They just built lengthy cases and that's it.

Care to elaborate?

Pedit: Do you think that

Loki Dokie

is scum for exerting a lot of pressure on the current wagon they're building? I feel like in 406 he might have wanted to bait me into jump on

Roden

without even thinking if it's a good read just so I could earn myself a townread in his eyes. What kind of town play is this?

I really did think Roden was scum pulling a scum!Koba on me because I completely and stupidly misconstrued his posts.

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: Vivax

I'm not moving for the rest of the day, this needs to go.

[Loki Dokie]

UNVOTE:

Trying to decide now on Roden or Vivax because Roden has never wrongly sr me and he was in Terminator so unlike Dann, he definitely knows who I am. Vivax’s 180 on me is hella weird as well,

@Roden tell me how I’m different here than in Terminator and if you know my main, your vote on me is even worse,

I don't remember much from Terminator but my vote isn't based on that. I know who's alt you are and my vote is more or less because of that, defensiveness is NAI for you but I know from another alt that AtE isn't. The post I quoted and voted you for gave me AtE vibes and I wanted to see how you'd react. Either you double down and scum tell or you go hard at your self meta and town tell. Though tbh this part is townier than your immediate reaction:

Yeah I'd definitely like Roden to say more before I considered voting there.

Dann’s argument would suggest that Roden’s scumgame isn’t good. His vote on me is bad but as scum, he’d probably realize that.

In the game I played with scum!him I was getting heavily wagoned and Roden hard wk’d me. This just seems to be really sloppy if Roden’s scum here.

Roden was so good in that game that last town miselimmed me at elo and Roden won, so why would his scumgame suddenly turn to shit? Idk what to think rn.

Realizing that I already know how to play around you as scum but not actually pursuing that is the kind of nuance I was looking for, more or less. You're more likely to avoid looking like your waffling as scum.

You have never seen my scumgame, so this is utter bs. You should have stuck with not knowing who I am sport. Major fos here.

This all started because you didn't know I was in White Flag, and I was only bringing it up and linked it because of that. I never said your play was similar to that game, I was looking to see if there

were

any similarities and didn't see any.

@Vivax, is there some reason you decided to completely ignore this?