Open 861: The Turing Test [game over]

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: DannFlor

Interested into seeing what Loki thinks of a wagon on Dannflor.
It's not on Loki, so it can't be that bad.

You know this Dannflor vote isn't gonna happen, they're widely townread. Why aren't you being more realistic about surviving?

[Vivax]

VOTE: DannFlor

Interested into seeing what Loki thinks of a wagon on Dannflor.
It's not on Loki, so it can't be that bad.

You know this Dannflor vote isn't gonna happen, they're widely townread. Why aren't you being more realistic about surviving?

That's a mafia priority. My priority is finding the correct elimination.
If I get yeeted, I haven't been read correctly, and neither was the mafia.

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: DannFlor

Interested into seeing what Loki thinks of a wagon on Dannflor.
It's not on Loki, so it can't be that bad.

You know this Dannflor vote isn't gonna happen, they're widely townread. Why aren't you being more realistic about surviving?

That's a mafia priority. My priority is finding the correct elimination.
If I get yeeted, I haven't been read correctly, and neither was the mafia.

Why isn't KittyTacky the correct elimination?

[Roden]

I don't think an apology from me is necessary, but I do probably owe everyone an explanation. I won't be going into much details, because I don't really like talking about it, and I don't really want to host an AmA right now, but unfortunately this impacted my play in this game and so I've kinda made it game-relevant.

I have a certain condition, which, when triggered, causes me to react in a way that others would describe (and have described) as a "massive overreaction". I can be erratic and my thoughts can get chaotic. Most of the time I have it under control and can manage the triggers, but sometimes I don't. I don't always know if the chain reaction is happening or not. It does tend to spiral out of control quite easily, especially in stressful situations, is quite impactful and let's say that I kinda drift away.

I should have stopped posting before I got passive aggressive, and I can own up to this mistake. But not to my "massive overreactions".

As for its' relevance to the game, I would say that when I'm mafia I tend to have my emotions more under control than not. I know that I have to watch what I say more, because any inconsistency can be used against me. When I'm town, I just don't really care, I play how I feel like playing atm.

It's, of course, up to you whether you believe this or not. I won't be offended if you don't buy it, but it's just the truth.

I don't really like this kind of stuff, I feel like it blurs the line, like a trust tell.

It's like "sorry for being emotional, I have a condition, it's because I'm always like this as town".

Ok I won't vote you then.

Cue postgame...oh you were mafia. *thinks*........well played I guess.

Know what I mean?

I'm fairly certain this would count as lying about IRL circumstances, which is against site rules.

That said, he didn't say it only happens as Town and never as scum, which definitely would be approaching Trust Tell category, so I'm not saying we report them for flipping red or anything. Just that we should take it as good faith for now.

This is what I mean - if your IRL circumstances are your self-towncase, and it's against site rules to lie about IRL circumstances, it feels like a loophole. Lying is part of the game anyway, I don't agree that you shouldn't be able to lie about IRL stuff. IRL stuff should never be relevant anyway.

This post bothered me when I was reading earlier. Besides the soft accusation that Greeting is faking/lying about having a condition, these posts are trying to frame it like he's using it as an excuse to avoid getting scum read when it seems really clear that he isn't doing that at all. He's explaining his behavior and asking people to keep that in mind when trying to read him, but he never claims that it's town indicative for him when certain behavior patterns get triggered. At most, he says he's more controlled as scum and less self-conscious as town, which are like...

really

basic tells for anyone. He doesn't even say he's guaranteed to act a certain way as either alignment, just that he puts in effort to do so.

Obviously mods get final say but I don't see any loopholes here, Greeting can be telling the truth and still be scum.

[furtiveglance]

I don't think an apology from me is necessary, but I do probably owe everyone an explanation. I won't be going into much details, because I don't really like talking about it, and I don't really want to host an AmA right now, but unfortunately this impacted my play in this game and so I've kinda made it game-relevant.

I have a certain condition, which, when triggered, causes me to react in a way that others would describe (and have described) as a "massive overreaction". I can be erratic and my thoughts can get chaotic. Most of the time I have it under control and can manage the triggers, but sometimes I don't. I don't always know if the chain reaction is happening or not. It does tend to spiral out of control quite easily, especially in stressful situations, is quite impactful and let's say that I kinda drift away.

I should have stopped posting before I got passive aggressive, and I can own up to this mistake. But not to my "massive overreactions".

As for its' relevance to the game, I would say that when I'm mafia I tend to have my emotions more under control than not. I know that I have to watch what I say more, because any inconsistency can be used against me. When I'm town, I just don't really care, I play how I feel like playing atm.

It's, of course, up to you whether you believe this or not. I won't be offended if you don't buy it, but it's just the truth.

I don't really like this kind of stuff, I feel like it blurs the line, like a trust tell.

It's like "sorry for being emotional, I have a condition, it's because I'm always like this as town".

Ok I won't vote you then.

Cue postgame...oh you were mafia. *thinks*........well played I guess.

Know what I mean?

I'm fairly certain this would count as lying about IRL circumstances, which is against site rules.

That said, he didn't say it only happens as Town and never as scum, which definitely would be approaching Trust Tell category, so I'm not saying we report them for flipping red or anything. Just that we should take it as good faith for now.

This is what I mean - if your IRL circumstances are your self-towncase, and it's against site rules to lie about IRL circumstances, it feels like a loophole. Lying is part of the game anyway, I don't agree that you shouldn't be able to lie about IRL stuff. IRL stuff should never be relevant anyway.

This post bothered me when I was reading earlier. Besides the soft accusation that Greeting is faking/lying about having a condition, these posts are trying to frame it like he's using it as an excuse to avoid getting scum read when it seems really clear that he isn't doing that at all. He's explaining his behavior and asking people to keep that in mind when trying to read him, but he never claims that it's town indicative for him when certain behavior patterns get triggered. At most, he says he's more controlled as scum and less self-conscious as town, which are like...

really

basic tells for anyone. He doesn't even say he's guaranteed to act a certain way as either alignment, just that he puts in effort to do so.

Obviously mods get final say but I don't see any loopholes here, Greeting can be telling the truth and still be scum.

I'm gonna drop this now, but safe to say my opinion is that people shouldn't bring IRL circumstances into a social deduction game, especially if some people think lying about IRL circumstances is wrong (or against site rules apparently). Because the chain of logic is 1) my IRL circumstances are making me play weirdly/scummily, 2) I can't lie about this according to the rules, 3) I am therefore town. That's just how I see it.

[furtiveglance]

I'm not saying Greeting is lying by the way, I believe them, but it feels like they've done something mafia can't really replicate.

[Vivax]

I've got time for this now. One of the posts I will treasure I suppose. Got work ahead of me.
Let's see.

Aristeia chose not to respond, could have been a nerve with areflexy, that usually indicates someone is unable to generate within the central nervous system or on the transmission route. A rider without a horse . A mafia who is frozen on the spot?
What I instead got was a reflex from furtiveglance. The reflex shows spasticity, that indicates damage that leads to central impulses being misdirected or generated incorrectly. A horse without a rider. A townie who likes to wildly kick?

I'll be slightly embarrassed if I remembered this incorrectly.
But maybe you'll understand why I prefer to not get engaged by FG here. That's not productive.

[furtiveglance]

I've got time for this now. One of the posts I will treasure I suppose. Got work ahead of me.
Let's see.

Aristeia chose not to respond, could have been a nerve with areflexy, that usually indicates someone is unable to generate within the central nervous system or on the transmission route. A rider without a horse . A mafia who is frozen on the spot?
What I instead got was a reflex from furtiveglance. The reflex shows spasticity, that indicates damage that leads to central impulses being misdirected or generated incorrectly. A horse without a rider. A townie who likes to wildly kick?

I'll be slightly embarrassed if I remembered this incorrectly.
But maybe you'll understand why I prefer to not get engaged by FG here. That's not productive.

And what I got from you was a throwaway vote on a semi-UTR instead of on the counterwagon to you. You need to explain why you're not voting KittyTacky, it would be the first thing to come to mind if I was in your position.

[Vivax]

I've got time for this now. One of the posts I will treasure I suppose. Got work ahead of me.
Let's see.

Aristeia chose not to respond, could have been a nerve with areflexy, that usually indicates someone is unable to generate within the central nervous system or on the transmission route. A rider without a horse . A mafia who is frozen on the spot?
What I instead got was a reflex from furtiveglance. The reflex shows spasticity, that indicates damage that leads to central impulses being misdirected or generated incorrectly. A horse without a rider. A townie who likes to wildly kick?

I'll be slightly embarrassed if I remembered this incorrectly.
But maybe you'll understand why I prefer to not get engaged by FG here. That's not productive.

And what I got from you was a throwaway vote on a semi-UTR instead of on the counterwagon to you. You need to explain why you're not voting KittyTacky, it would be the first thing to come to mind if I was in your position.

Alright, maybe I misjudged your intent. Apologies, it's me having mafia PTSD from similar things. I will take a loot at KT.
Need a shower and a bite to eat first.

[Radical Rat]

VOTE: Vivax

I'm not moving for the rest of the day, this needs to go.

can you give me like a brief summary of why Vivax is scum

I see you've been asserting that he's scummy, but I don't know if I know what your reasoning is for why he's mafia. 520 is probably the main point I see against him, why is that inconsistency more likely to come from scum? like why does scum!Vivax throw a vote while openly saying he didn't check if it was a hammer (and would scum!Vivax have checked to see if it was a hammer?), and then 180 immediately afterwards?

like yeah it's weird, hard to make sense of, but why is it scummy?

Everything he posts is designed to be distracting or confusing. I don't believe a single word that's come out of his mouth all game, and now he's sussing people for.... Believing mental illness claims?

I also do not believe he wins a 1v1 against anyone, and I think scum knows this too, so they won't test him. Making today our one and only opportunity to get rid of him.

[Aristeia]

Don't like Dannflor, mostly.

I have trouble believing you actually scumread Dannflor because you have done literally nothing to push or sort him.

I don't like this angle. It seems you are accusing someone of not pushing Dannflor, but you don't seem focused enough on Dannflor yourself. You should think he's mafia if you think that it's a valid reason to attack KittyTacky. Cue for TMI and the Ari/Dann pair being correct.

I have not said anything about Dannflor's alignment.

[Aristeia]

in fact its wholly irrelevant to what I think of Kittys alignment!

[Vivax]

Don't like Dannflor, mostly.

I have trouble believing you actually scumread Dannflor because you have done literally nothing to push or sort him.

I don't like this angle. It seems you are accusing someone of not pushing Dannflor, but you don't seem focused enough on Dannflor yourself. You should think he's mafia if you think that it's a valid reason to attack KittyTacky. Cue for TMI and the Ari/Dann pair being correct.

I have not said anything about Dannflor's alignment.

Why not though?
Do you not have information for that, or is there any other reason?
Pretending to know you, information shouldn't trouble you as most, chameleon.

[Aristeia]

in fact its wholly irrelevant to what I think of Kittys alignment!

[Vivax]

in fact its wholly irrelevant to what I think of Kittys alignment!

It's not irrelevant to what you think of Dannflor
It's not irrelevant to think about Dannflor's alignment
Unless your plan is to withhold information on his alignment, is it that?

[Vivax]

Do you believe I could be a malevolent machine? Or is that just a potential you see while I play text based games? A magnitude of an end of two different spectrums with a common denominator in the middle?

One consequence:

Yes and no is a valid answer

[Vivax]

VOTE: Vivax

I'm not moving for the rest of the day, this needs to go.

can you give me like a brief summary of why Vivax is scum

I see you've been asserting that he's scummy, but I don't know if I know what your reasoning is for why he's mafia. 520 is probably the main point I see against him, why is that inconsistency more likely to come from scum? like why does scum!Vivax throw a vote while openly saying he didn't check if it was a hammer (and would scum!Vivax have checked to see if it was a hammer?), and then 180 immediately afterwards?

like yeah it's weird, hard to make sense of, but why is it scummy?

Everything he posts is designed to be distracting or confusing. I don't believe a single word that's come out of his mouth all game, and now he's sussing people for.... Believing mental illness claims?

I also do not believe he wins a 1v1 against anyone, and I think scum knows this too, so they won't test him. Making today our one and only opportunity to get rid of him.

You don‘t seem to be in the best of moods, Batman. Or was it math man?

[Vivax]

Happiness can be learned, not bought

Holding grudges doesn‘t help

[Aristeia]

This is KT's first post with suspicion;

I don't like the naked votes on Lokie Dokie.

atp in time the only people who had voted for Loki Dokie are Dannflor and Fireisredsir, fire had unvoted at this point.

~ 3 hours later - Roden votes for Loki Dokie 188

KT comes back and reiterates his position here:

I will repeat that the string of naked votes on Loki is just HMMMMMMM to me.

which is incongruent with:

I don't understand the Roden wagon. He's got three posts, and none of them strike me as particularly scummy.

Yeah same. Roden is very null to me.

I don't see how you can suspect naked Loki voters and also be null on someone who fits your criteria.

When I press KT on which Loki voters he suspects, his response is:

The ones who actually gave content so far. I can't read someone who made so few posts at all regardless of if they made a naked vote or not.

Which implies that he is scumreading one of the other loki voters for their content - but he hasn't actually explained specifically what content he is suspecting.

I further push him to be specific about who he is scumreading at he responds with:

I don't understand the Roden wagon. He's got three posts, and none of them strike me as particularly scummy.

Yeah same. Roden is very null to me.

I don't understand how you can sus the loki voters and also be null on roden

this feels like a contradiction to me.

I'm not heavily scumreading the Loki voters. And explain how is it a contradiction?

like um

which loki voters are you exactly sussing?

The ones who actually gave content so far. I can't read someone who made so few posts at all regardless of if they made a naked vote or not.

name names

Don't like Dannflor, mostly.

Now this is weird to me because

(1) he's given absolutely no indication prior to this point that Dannflor is a person of interest or suspect for him.

There's no indication in his iso that he suspects Dannflor at all.

(2) in fact he even sheeps Dannflor with this vote:

Dear God, this whole "I don't get scumread" thing is insufferable.
I don't think it's necessarily scummy, because the same thing happened somewhat in Terminator, but it IS obnoxious and makes the game way harder to follow for anyone else.


Anyway,
VOTE: Greeting
Ignoring the actual substance of posts in favor of superficial "tells" is probably as scummy as it's gonna get D1.

Did a reread of the whole game so far, yeah I can sheep this.
VOTE: Greeting

(3) all of his responses to me feel manufactured on the spot and not part of an actual thought process to find scum. I would guess that his initial comment about the Loki voters wasn't real suspicion and really just playing on Loki's extreme sensitivity to being suspected to try to pocket Loki. Which is why he is having such a hard time actually showing any thought process that involves actually pushing or suspecting any of the people who naked voted Loki to begin with.

[Vivax]

I suppose KittyTacky could be mafia.
Attached easily to the Greeting wagon but made a retort about Dannflor without committing.
I‘d like the right to tinfoil on this some more.

[Aristeia]

I'm going on vacation on Monday for the summer and I won't be around as much.

I really hope we can vote out Kitty before then.

[fireisredsir]

vacation sounds nice :>

VOTE: KittyTacky

kuti, pretend my vote is still on you and consider yourself pressured plz thanks

[Vivax]

VOTE: KittyTacky

Okay then, you bullies /jk

[fireisredsir]

i think thats e-2 btw

[Vivax]

I‘m a affifical intellifenfe weeeeee