Mini Normal 2278: Southern France [Game Over]

[Aisa]

1.05

Votecount 1.05

froggodoggo (2):

T3, ceejayvinoya.

ceejayvinoya (1):

froggodoggo.

Eiralox (1):

Andante.

Not voting (3):

Galron, Eiralox, BloodB0t.

With 7 players alive, it takes 4 to achieve an elimination.

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-08-15 23:00:00).

Mod note

This unvote made no sense, because froggodoggo was voting Galron at the time:

Spoiler: quote

T3 is on my scum list, along with Eira for being silent and being defended for no reason by t3. I thought maybe T3 talking about froggo not engaging my case could have been a pocket attempt. When he realized it wasn't working, he decided to try to frame me for attacking silly fun posts.

Still dunno about T3 being scum, but this kind of post is very town!pov from bloodb0t. I don't agree with the read but it's so farfetched that i don't think it comes from mafia.

Farfetched probably isnt the right word, i KNOW theres a term that mafia players use for this and every time i want to use it i forget what it is D:

anyways UNVOTE: bloodb0t

It's ok though, because froggodoggo voted for ceejayvinoya in the next post:

Spoiler: quote

Eiralox is town. they seem independent. like they r just out there in the world with no scum buddy. just the vibe that i get from that intro.

null on ceejay

page 3 hero solve t3/andante tbh that "conflict" went away immediately

I'm in love with these reads

T3 and andante did feel like they backed off each other pretty quickly

The only problem is that I don't really see andante scum so far

andante disengaging with T3 on 21 really pings towny to me for some reason

So sorting from this:

andante probably town.

T3 could be town?

Eiralox is town because I said so.

VOTE: froggodoggo

I wish we'd get more galron and blood posts to work with soon.

loving my reads into voting me is a weird jump that i didnt pay much attention to before. seems like scum who forgot what their reads were and voted opportunistically. i'd like an explanation for the jump. also CJ and T3 have both TR'd eiralox w/o reason so Eiralox might just be town who is being spewed by the mafia

VOTE: ceejay

flavour

A street in Saintes-Maries-de-la-Mer (literally Saint-Marys-of-the-Sea), a seaside town with a palpable Spanish influence of little houses tightly packed around twisting alleys. We were there in the early spring and the light, then, still felt scorching. It reflected off the houses' white walls, seemingly blanching and fading all matter, until the entire town was one blinding pool of white light.

[froggodoggo]

muh VC (in 20 minutes)

i was here

[T3]

I am not townreading Eira and ceejay for no reason.

[Eiralox]

ceejay’s questions seems like genuine scumhunting. Currently I’m null on Eiralox. Bloodb0t’s reads seemed very ‘safe’, but his reasoning made sense.

putting this post in contemporary context, what do you think about Blood's current reasoning? Calling me and you scum? And I think I'll just cover this here, froggo, you and ceejay have sorta read me town so far? So we got Blood saying me and u scum. And we got froggo saying u and ceejay scum cos... from what i saw... u folk tr'd me? which i think froggo sorta also did? while u saying ceejay and i town?

so i'll be honest these are some very interesting patterns and I think, cos I do still feel green on u, and with you being in the center of this much intrigue.... idk i'd just love to here a detailed take i guess >.<

[T3]

Why are you assuming ceejay and Eira town, then your "reasoning" for 1 of the teams is "Andante and frogs are trying to kill each other so not a team" then why have it listed as a plausible team?? I'm confused by your plan here

Assuming for a moment that me, ceejay, and Eiralox are town, the possible teams are:

Spoiler: froggo/Bloodbot

i'll vote galron if you do @bloodb0t

I don’t think froggo and bloodbot are partnered because of this post. If froggo and bloodbot were partnered, then they would have more of a plan.

You're talking about there being too many posts for you to pay attention to any questions asked of you, and you also add totally meaningless posts. I don't get it.

I also don’t think froggo and bloodbot are partnered because of this post. Bloodbot is pointing out something that froggo is doing that doesn’t make sense. This post is scummy from Bloodbot’s side, as it is shading something NAI. However, scum Bloodbot probably doesn’t shade scum froggo for this.

maybe andante town. idk i still dont like a lot of their content but they aren't trying to murder me and this is a small game so that makes a big difference

VOTE: bloodb0t

There’s also this post, in which froggo votes Bloodbot without mentioning him at all in the post? And while Bloodbot did say stuff between this post and froggo’s previous one, Bloodbot was townreading froggo in those posts. I doubt scum froggo would do this if Bloodbot is scum.

Spoiler: froggo/Galron

froggo barely mentions Galron at all until froggo randomly decides to vote Galron. He tries to recruit me and Bloodbot into voting Galron. I can absolutely see Galron and froggo being partnered from this. The froggo wagon was gaining traction and this reads as froggo being flailing scum trying to get his partner limmed for towncred. This is further emphasized by Galron weakly defending froggo in 134, but not actually making any attempt to read froggo. Galron also weakly defends froggo in previous posts such as 85.

Spoiler: froggo/Andante

VOTE: T3

found a maf

explain?

there is no way town is legitimately callimg me maf and voting me here. at least not yet

I don't believe this is true and I am having a hard time believing that you think it is true.

Saying that town would never suspect you here implies that town should always be TRing you on the basis of your first 4 posts.

VOTE: Andante

I highly doubt that froggo and Andante are scum together. Since the start of the game froggo has been going for Andante’s head. froggo decided to unvote Andante because Andante isn’t scumreading him, which seems more like pocketing than s/s.

Spoiler: Bloodbot/Galron

They’ve both expressed weak scumreads on each other but there hasn’t been much follow-through, as Galron hasn’t posted much. Possibly scum distancing.

Spoiler: Bloodbot/Andante

Bloodbot townread Andante early for her interaction with me. Bloodbot also scumreads ceejay because of his townread on Andante. (Basically the opposite of a chainsaw.) This doesn’t make much sense if they’re partners. Andante expresses a fairly lazy townread on Bloodbot, and she doesn’t elaborate much about nor does she try to convince people Bloodbot is town, which also means that Andante and Bloodbot likely aren’t partnered.

Spoiler: Galron/Andante

They’ve barely acknowledged each other.

ceejay and Eiralox are town, don’t question it today.
I’m assessing all of the possible scum pairs in my post, and determined that you and froggo aren’t scum together.

so how many from your list are teams you're actually considering?

3, 1 a bit, 1 possibly, 1 not at all.

[T3]

If froggo is scum, he is scum with Galron but not bloodbot. But, bloodbot can be scum with Galron.

It's funny that both of froggo's srs are those who sr him back.

Immediately after these posts are made, froggo suddenly decides to vote Galron. froggo is absolutely just newbie scum flailing and making an attempt to bus his partner Galron.

then vote galron

cause here it's looking like the plan is to lim Galron, then regardless of his flip, to flip me cause I'm not talking to him? like, it's not my fault Galron isn't here when I am... and trying to interact with people not here when I am? well, we see how that's going with Eira

I’m not saying you’re scum with Galron. I’m saying that’s a possibility of you being scum with Galron, which I will reassess later.

[T3]

from my pov T3 is very confident in solving this game and I am very confident that T3 is town so my job is to just push on the people in their POE that isn’t me

Honestly, this is a really towny post.

[Eiralox]

honestly, I think froggo genuinely looks the worst here, like, trying to shut down pushes that are actually going to go places, meanwhile he doesn't have anything that he, himself is actually doing

what do you think about froggo sorta TR'ing me in the beginning me and now going after two others for the same reason? Do you think it's a genuine push or deflection?

this is quite literally not what i'm doing!! that is in no way a reasoning for any push i've made, just something that I noted

eh ok like maybe i misinterpreted but from the way the post was structured it was pretty easy for me to do so.

[Andante]

great, so T3 wants to hard shield CJ and Eira, I think Froggo is town, and so that literally just leaves like Galron for maf, so whatever

VOTE: Galron

[Eiralox]

if anyone had any questions for me please post them again and maybe like bold them even because there was a crap ton of posts and if anyone asked me anything i definitely missed it.

idk what to think abt galron or ceejay. been seeing people say T3 is town based on meta so im cool with that for now, nothing abt their posting pinged me.

i want andante and bloodbot gone.

so progression of events> blood calls u out says you and ceejay have connived in mafia chat>you sus blood and andante, heavily>you voted galron, then ceejay from my recollection. so i'll study your progress and see how you've come to clear blood and andante.

[BloodB0t]

lets flip ceejay red and clear myself blood and eiralox.

I like this idea but we still have 5 rl days left in D1 so I wont be voting or talking much until we're closer to the deadline. I think I've done all that I can to indicate my alignment but and I'm still not very confident about who is scum.

However, notice T3's zero engagement in my case on him.

202 doesn't count because other people have expressed the same questioning those reads, and he hasn't mentioned my idea that he may have tried to pocket and then frame me.

See you all later.

[froggodoggo]

This unvote made no sense, because froggodoggo was voting Galron at the time:

WOOPS lol. lets just say it was to show i no longer want to vote for bloodb0t?

[froggodoggo]

And we got froggo saying u and ceejay scum cos

also never said this?????

[Eiralox]

Hello, world.



My reads are:

Town:
Andante
T3
Eiralox
Galron

Mafia:
ceejayvinoya
froggodoggo




Andante and T3's interaction seems like two townies, their reasoning seems natural to me, like they are genuinely trying to figure things out from an uninformed perspective.

Frog and CJ's posts seem more like mafia to me. I don't like Frog's reads, they seem too confident without any inquisition or reasoning to back them up. CJ seems to be contradicting himself, without giving any reasons why. One thing that sticks out to me is that CJ asked Frog to sell him on voting andante, but Frog just ignored that request, and CJ ignored Frog's ignoring. Maybe they decided in mafia chat not to talk about it?

I guess the most interesting part of page 1 for me would be were T3's early reads at the end. I don't entirely get how he decided to townread andante.

First he says he doesn't a town read on Andante.

Eiralox is town. they seem independent. like they r just out there in the world with no scum buddy. just the vibe that i get from that intro.

null on ceejay

page 3 hero solve t3/andante tbh that "conflict" went away immediately

I'm in love with these reads

T3 and andante did feel like they backed off each other pretty quickly

The only problem is that I don't really see andante scum so far

andante disengaging with T3 on 21 really pings towny to me for some reason

Soon after this he says Andante pings really towny, without giving any reasons. Why did he change his mind?

Logically, a mafia would love their partner to have a null read on them because it's a non-commital way of saying they're not mafia, without giving clarity to the town.

VOTE: ceejayvinoya

Eiralox and Galron are town mostly by process of elimination. Nothing Eiralox has said so far seems scummy.

Me listing reads on everyone is not meant to be a show of great confidence in all of them. I just think it makes sense to approach such a small game from the angle of solving the entire thing all-together.

my single biggest fault with this post is Galron being in town for saying "I'm late. Catch up later."

I know ppl have tr'ed me early but wow i had a tad bit more content than an one-liner, so at the time, and still now, i wonder why blood has garleon as town here?

[Eiralox]

And we got froggo saying u and ceejay scum cos

also never said this?????

see above. ive addressed the ambiguous nature of your post which led to my interpretation of it.

[froggodoggo]

ah missed that post my bad. i also believe you are misrepping blood in 213 but i will let them decide

[Eiralox]

I'm surprised by froggodoggo's 'hero solve' of andante/T3 because I picked up on the fact they had history very easily by their first posts. And even without their history it seems like 2 towns fighting to me. He does seem scummy for this. If he didn't have 2 votes already I'd feel more comfortable with voting for him right now.

bloodb0t's opening looked like town to me but this pings me hard. sussing someone for not being in the loop with meta is not fruitful but thats whatever. saying that you wont vote me because i already have 2 votes looks like scum holding off in order to appear townier. if you sus me, VOTE ME. i think this inaction is scum.

I'm not sussing you for being out of the meta loop. I'm also out of the meta loop. I don't think meta really matters that much anyways because people can change their meta.

I'm sussing you for not being able to pick up on what I thought was obvious to pick up on. They admitted to being at odds with each other in other games. That might be a result of their metas clashing, but their individual metas don't matter. What matters is

they admitted to already being at odds.

That's something I noticed just by reading their posts while having zero experience of anyone's meta in all of mafiascum.

VOTE: froggodoggo

ok i've been trying to frame this but it.... just feels scummy. in tone. in content. and i dont feel much is being said about froggo, see very little justification for the -1. and this can defs be a planted defense of either T3 or Andante, considering blood's dynamic, most likely Andante. I'm not reaching any conclusion yet but this post is pretty jarring to me in tone so ill state it.

[Eiralox]

ah missed that post my bad. i also believe you are misrepping blood in 213 but i will let them decide

definitely not. galron said one one liner, blood has them binned as town, so no, no misinterpretation from my part. gal should be null on that list, and while not alignment indicative it bothers me so ill state so.

[T3]

I don't get how T3 is so confident on Eira being town. Also, I never town read froggo as he claims. I said I strongly lean scum towards froggo. I mentioned froggo as a possible 'unhelpful town' to get feedback on how viable it was to vote an 'unhelpful town' in a small game. I unvoted because people were scared of someone being at e-1, and I thought that it wasn't fair to have someone at e-1 when Eira has barely posted.

Since my last post, my perspective has changed a little bit.

It seems that voting unhelpful town is not a good idea. I'll try to take the game less seriously. I'll give townies more room to make 'unhelpful' posts. I realize it's probably more important to find mafia who are being 'helpful', but are actually providing bad help. Bad help is worse than no help.

T3 also mentioned how in rl games mafia tries to eliminate people who are joking in his experience. Well, this is not an rl game. I was already suspicious of froggo before criticizing his joking, and my main point was that he was contradicting himself by creating more meaningless posts while also saying there are too many posts.

T3 is on my scum list, along with Eira for being silent and being defended for no reason by t3. I thought maybe T3 talking about froggo not engaging my case could have been a pocket attempt. When he realized it wasn't working, he decided to try to frame me for attacking silly fun posts.

At this point I think the mafia team is probably T3 and Eira. Waiting on Eira.

Froggo could be a town that doesn't make sense to me.

pedit: wasn't expecting Eira to defend T3. I don't like what he says about Andante. I think everything Andante's been doing lines up with town. I don't like how non-commital Eira is being, combined with how T3 townbinned him for no reason. So T3-Eira scumteam makes the most sense right now.

That’s fair, I may have misinterpreted the nature of your read on froggo. I do also like your perspective shift. Also, I was talking about froggo not engaging with my case, not yours.

Also, ceejay townreads Eiralox too?

[T3]

lets flip ceejay red and clear myself blood and eiralox.

I like this idea but we still have 5 rl days left in D1 so I wont be voting or talking much until we're closer to the deadline. I think I've done all that I can to indicate my alignment but and I'm still not very confident about who is scum.

However, notice T3's zero engagement in my case on him.

202 doesn't count because other people have expressed the same questioning those reads, and he hasn't mentioned my idea that he may have tried to pocket and then frame me.

See you all later.

I am reading the game and responding to posts in order??

[Eiralox]

i'll vote galron if you do @bloodb0t

ok here froggo seems to goad blood towards voting galron, just as froggo goaded blood/eira when voting ceejay

[Eiralox]

Also, with a low player count, I'm thinking mafia voting their partner would be too detrimental to them because with the short game length town wouldn't have that much time to figure it out anyway.

andante: I sr CJ a lot more than froggo, like why are we throwing froggo on e-1?

Is it really that farfetched that they are both mafia?

I mean, we have just about nothing from Eira/CJ/Galron

like, CJ has only answered questions, not taking initiative to solve
Galron recently stepped it up a bit, and
Eira hasn't done ~Anything~

I'd really prefer if we actually got everyone doing stuff before we head into the night, instead of putting someone on e-1 and not announcing it as e-1... so our lovely lurking friends could show up, hammer, call it a day.

Like, Eira has NOTHING in that iso.. CJ has literally only been on defense, I haven't seen initiative to go "ok here's what I'm thinking, here's who I SR"
and Galron is a little different cause like, ehhh there's stuff there, but none of it really feels AI to me, so probably just need more time for a read there

ok first off, i think me and andante have different playstyles cos i don't like to rush things and this seem very rabid. but it also admonishes bloodbot for e-1 rashness and does feel like it comes from a position of townie concern.

the problem i have here is the same i have with bloodbot's 1st post: galron placement. Why re-read if there is so little to read? Logically I should be with galron here and Ceejay should be the 'need more time to read' cos ceejay engaged more than galron and I at this point i think? I'm always wary of lazy reads, but honestly i think galron did feel green on entrance so im sorta way more ok with this post than bloodbot's. it just one of those things which pings me i guess, not indicative for now.

[Eiralox]

and Galron is a little different cause like, ehhh there's stuff there, but none of it really feels AI to me, so probably just need more time for a read there

agreed although the fact that none of it feels AI makes me think its scum, if u know what i mean

Froggo, I don't understand. Are you saying that you think Galron is specifically trying to not indicate their alignment? That would be suspicious but I don't think it's the case.

You saying you will vote Galron with me while not giving much of a case on him seems a little suspicious to me.

I actually think Eiralox is the more likely mafia of those two simply because Galron at least seems to be making some kind of effort for town. But then maybe Eiralox is just busy with IRL stuff.

If I did switch my vote, it would probably be to ceejay though. Andante makes a good point that he does seem to be only on the defensive and not trying to solve.

I guess leaving the possibility for a hammer is dangerous so I will UNVOTE: froggodoggo. We should wait for the lurkers to contribute more.

overall this post reads green, definitely better than others. the unvoting, the waiting for 'lurkers' sure, the thinking im scum but giving me a chance sorta schpiel, but again the read on galron.... not enough info yet imo, but a better tak than bloods first post. And there's the recurrent theme of blood/andante defense which is beginning to worry me.

[Eiralox]

Townbinning Andante based on reads, scum are likely in Bloodbot, froggo, and Galron.

ok im actually sort almost on level with T3's reads here. Towns me after ceejay launches on galron. I think i'm still viewing all the tr's at me with neutrality for now, not good to let such things interfere with reads imo, but rn i think i sorta trust T3, and while personally ceejay from what i've seen so far is null to slight green i'll trust T3's instincts there for now. would like both of them to expand a bit on their reads on me tho, as well as froggo who does seem to see me as town? enough to ask for my vote?

[Eiralox]

Out of the PoE of Bloodbot, Galron, and froggo:

Weak scum
Bloodbot
Lean scum
Galron
scum
Froggo

If froggo is scum, he is scum with Galron but not bloodbot. But, bloodbot can be scum with Galron.

vote galron with me

VOTE: galron

ok here comes the galron vote and this time t3 is being asked to join. this is early game behavior, perhaps experimental. from which alignment tho? idk yet.