Open 861: The Turing Test [game over]

[Loki Dokie]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=19042

Dann scumgame. I think if Dann does flip scum, Roden could be a buddy.

[Bell]

Maybe less trying to figure out the wifom and more just iso’ if both and deciding which is more likely.
First impressions mean a lot but I’d recommend putting in the effort to look at them again. With whatever fresh eyes could possibly mean.

[Loki Dokie]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=19042

Dann scumgame. I think if Dann does flip scum, Roden could be a buddy.

Subject: Micro 1022 | Purgatory | 80s music | Game Over

i gotta get to work and i've only read 5.5 pages, so im refraining from posting anything meaningful ("meaningful") until i catch up
just know i'm around and i'll be back in a few hours

random thought: but I think overall I tend to make these types of posts more as scum, I think i feel more guilt for not producing content and like there's a ticking time bomb of people starting to suspect me for lurking or what have you

this is purely anecdotal and only relevant to me but I would be interested in some kind of data on these types of posts

Redtea was a Dann buddy and I don’t think Dann is ever one of those players who is “obvtown” right off the bat, so if Dann is scum here, possibly him and Rodzn doing some scum theatre here.

[Bell]

Those certainly look like buddy posts.

[Loki Dokie]

the wagon is on a slot getting replaced, they are effectively dead votes

The slot's scummy actions are not undone, we should wait for a replacement though.

I don't understand the Roden wagon. He's got three posts, and none of them strike me as particularly scummy.

Yeah same. Roden is very null to me.

I don't understand how you can sus the loki voters and also be null on roden

this feels like a contradiction to me.

I'm not heavily scumreading the Loki voters. And explain how is it a contradiction?

like um

which loki voters are you exactly sussing?

The ones who actually gave content so far. I can't read someone who made so few posts at all regardless of if they made a naked vote or not.

name names

Don't like Dannflor, mostly.

Kitty’s reads are interesting. People shouldn’t ignore distancing. It seems a bit too convenient almost. We lim scum!Kitty and Dann is killled along with kuti plz.

I also really trust GL here.

[Loki Dokie]

Furtive glance and anyone else,

Want to share your old games so I can get a feel of how you play as either alignments

:curtain:

I don't really like this

kutiplz have you gotten any value out of reading cold meta in the past?

Even more interesting. Dann shading kuti, now both are dead.

And I just showed that this question isn’t scum indicative from kuti.

[Loki Dokie]

Furtive glance and anyone else,

Want to share your old games so I can get a feel of how you play as either alignments

:curtain:

I don't really like this

kutiplz have you gotten any value out of reading cold meta in the past?

Why tf. is Dann sr this anyway? In what world is this a scummy question?

[Loki Dokie]

Spoiler:

We are currently in rvs so nothing is pinging me as awkward or stiff in an uncomfortable mafia way yet.

How do I share photos

Furtive glance and anyone else,

Want to share your old games so I can get a feel of how you play as either alignments

:curtain:

idk what the optimal way to play it is but i just know that town!you would be thinking about it

wouldn't scum!Ari be thinking about how town!Ari would play and how town!Ari would think about it? I don't think this is a town indicative thing

shhhh im letting her pocket me

i think its slightly town indicative. i don't think that ari's main priority as scum is to match how she'd play as town, and i don't think most people would really would have that reaction or that she would expect them to. so if it was performative it was a very directed performance

Why are you trying to pocket her

they seem to be somewhat tongue-in-cheek

but the random town reads from Aristeia make me uneasy, especially in this setup

this sounds like a post made by someone who feels obligated to start posting real content but doesn't really have much to say yet

Code: Select all

Do you believe this is due to AI programming, or a simple human instinct?

Is this going to be a game long gimmick

I'm going to be honest none of these posts or the bolded questions inside of them really feel like genuine thoughts to me. Or rather, they are very surface level questions pushed out so that you have something to say

I'm not really getting the sense you actually want the answers to any of these questions nor that you hope some productivity will spark out of them. I might be being unfair if this is a strategy you've relied on in the past but the first one especially pings me because it strikes me as highly unlikely that anyone would be able to get reasonable value out of trawling through past games of a bunch of players they are unfamiliar with

as the very first step

to getting to know them. It seems like a way to seem productive but actually avoid having to prod people about this game. Instead it would seem more natural to me if you were prodding people about this game.

granted, you are doing that too... sorta. but "how to post photos" and the "is this going to be a game long gimmick" are both questions that like don't really require an answer, or I'm not sure what value you're hoping to gain by posting them in thread

i also find the part of the fireisred's post that you latched onto like the least interesting part because it seems clearly jokey

Yes we are in RVS and you claim nothing has been pinging you as off - but that means I expect your following questions to be trying to prod people that you think are off or just trying to get people out of their comfort zone, but I feel like I'm seeing more just posts to fill space

pedit:

it is very possible your playstyle is more fluffy here and I am misreading you based off that. how would you describe how you're trying to play this early game?

Just weird how hard Dann keeps pushing Kuti here. It’s just too much of a coincidence that both slots arz on the table.

[Loki Dokie]

Dann I hope you read my old games

I probably won't, sorry

I really don’t see why scum!Kuti makes this kind of post. Scum generally hopes you don’t read their games and it sounds like Dann probably just balked at posting his games.

[Loki Dokie]

I mean, someone made a case, or as much as you can make a case at this point of the game on another slot. Isn't that worth reading and either vocally agreeing with or disagreeing or drawing some conclusion from since it's one of the only bits of content in the game so far?

I'm not asking for theses or for everyone to be all caught up or have developed thoughts. It just strikes me as odd when people are present and commenting and posting but ignoring content *especially* at this stage of the game

Not for me it isn’t. I’m actually exhausted rn and this game just literally started, so if you’re town, your vote on me was probably just silly, since you don’t appear to be taking any of that into account but I will reread it tomorrow.

VOTE: Loki

Dann's obvtown here

See this is a totally nia post from me Roden, same as the one Dann voted me for, so why would you even jump on me for this?

Also, I was in PYP after White Flag and you responded quite differently to an nai post I made in that. You were super obvtown in that for the specific way you responded to me.

[Loki Dokie]

My working theory is that scum thinks we will vote Kuti and we will read Roden as a frame if Dann winds up flipping scum. And I agree with GL that Ari is likely town here as well.

[Loki Dokie]

long answer short my vote on fire isn't doing anything right now

your reaction to him and me is weird

and voting you is just funnier right now

oh ok i didn't know who you were lol

UNVOTE:

no longer think this reaction is unbelievable/scummy

long answer short my vote on fire isn't doing anything right now

your reaction to him and me is weird

and voting you is just funnier right now

You obviously have no idea who I am, do you?

oh ok i didn't know who you were lol

UNVOTE:

no longer think this reaction is unbelievable/scummy

You know? Am I that obvious?

i went and skimmed some past games and you have a pretty recognizable playstyle

for the record I have never said I think GL is scum nor meant to imply it

So what then was so extremely “troubling” to you that I failed to comment on then?

Are you planning to actually make sense at some point or not?

long answer short my vote on fire isn't doing anything right now

your reaction to him and me is weird

and voting you is just funnier right now

You obviously have no idea who I am, do you?

no idea

I don't alt hunt and am usually extremely oblivious

All of these posts are concerning from Dann. The moment fire unvoted me was the moment Dann should have had some kind of reaction to that but he didn’t. And the vote on me being “funnier” just also sounds seriously lame.

And Dann isn’t horrible at alt hunting. He recognized my alt in a past game before anyone else or myself ever pointed it out.

[Loki Dokie]

Those certainly look like buddy posts.

+1

Yeah thinks so. I think town!Dann seeing fire unvote me would definitely had a strong reaction to that but he just completely ignored it until it became beyond obvious. Dann was also being extremely lamisty this early in the game. It was freaking rvs, nothing remotely scum indicative about my not commenting on that.

So I think Dann knew exactly who I was once fire unvoted me and chose to intentionally play dumb.

[Loki Dokie]

Spoiler:

Basically reading how people play helps me read them better so. I'm not misunderstanding them due to play style reasons. I think I make sense to people that aren't me?

Spoiler:

We are currently in rvs so nothing is pinging me as awkward or stiff in an uncomfortable mafia way yet.

How do I share photos

Furtive glance and anyone else,

Want to share your old games so I can get a feel of how you play as either alignments

:curtain:

idk what the optimal way to play it is but i just know that town!you would be thinking about it

wouldn't scum!Ari be thinking about how town!Ari would play and how town!Ari would think about it? I don't think this is a town indicative thing

shhhh im letting her pocket me

i think its slightly town indicative. i don't think that ari's main priority as scum is to match how she'd play as town, and i don't think most people would really would have that reaction or that she would expect them to. so if it was performative it was a very directed performance

Why are you trying to pocket her

they seem to be somewhat tongue-in-cheek

but the random town reads from Aristeia make me uneasy, especially in this setup

this sounds like a post made by someone who feels obligated to start posting real content but doesn't really have much to say yet

Code: Select all

Do you believe this is due to AI programming, or a simple human instinct?

Is this going to be a game long gimmick

I'm going to be honest none of these posts or the bolded questions inside of them really feel like genuine thoughts to me. Or rather, they are very surface level questions pushed out so that you have something to say

I'm not really getting the sense you actually want the answers to any of these questions nor that you hope some productivity will spark out of them. I might be being unfair if this is a strategy you've relied on in the past but the first one especially pings me because it strikes me as highly unlikely that anyone would be able to get reasonable value out of trawling through past games of a bunch of players they are unfamiliar with

as the very first step

to getting to know them. It seems like a way to seem productive but actually avoid having to prod people about this game. Instead it would seem more natural to me if you were prodding people about this game.

granted, you are doing that too... sorta. but "how to post photos" and the "is this going to be a game long gimmick" are both questions that like don't really require an answer, or I'm not sure what value you're hoping to gain by posting them in thread

i also find the part of the fireisred's post that you latched onto like the least interesting part because it seems clearly jokey

Yes we are in RVS and you claim nothing has been pinging you as off - but that means I expect your following questions to be trying to prod people that you think are off or just trying to get people out of their comfort zone, but I feel like I'm seeing more just posts to fill space

pedit:

it is very possible your playstyle is more fluffy here and I am misreading you based off that. how would you describe how you're trying to play this early game?

You can check my previous game on ms (is it loaded?) where I was town. I am very fluffy day one because I like conversation. I also asked about people's old games and what not because I do in fact read old games. It takes me a day or two to get comfortable in a game to start pushing on people.

I'm new to this site and like to be aware of people's playstyles. Shoot me for that.

Here I am asking the same question in my previous ms game

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13453350

Previous game GL provided old games. I read them. Figured out he was towny and sheeped his reads which lead to me helping town win and going 2/2 on vig shots on scum

So yes I do need this for my playstyle

do you have any impressions of any players yet? if not anything pinging you scummy has anything struck you as towny? or not really anything at all yet

Fire feels very natural and fluid so far, nothing towny yet since it's been NAI content.

Waiting for GL to do something AI so I can sheep if he's towny again.

Ari, I have only played turbos and one mash with, hasn't really given anything AI related. Her shit posting doesn't feel awkward.

I honestly can't read people that do gimmicks so I'm already annoyed at that slot.

I do like the pressure you are applying to me.

That's all I got so far.

interesting

I am skeptical of the value of cold meta versus personal history with someone when it comes to returning anything alignment indicative but I won't argue the point

I mean when you are new to a playerlist, you gotta take cold meta and it clearly helped me in my last game. I rather get myself familar with players than have no idea about them.

meh, okay. I'm not going to lie and say I have any more stronger impressions than you do.

I apologize if I came off as somewhat abrasive but you're a newer player (I think?) and I was hoping you might panic a little bit if I laid it on somewhat thick. and I think it's ever so mildly towny that you didn't just start making up reads on people because I put some pressure on you

I think I'm still most scared of Aristeia for handing out free town reads to Kutiplz and GL

I only played three games on ms but one was a hydra so I don't count that one. This is my second solo game on here. It's just a routine I do when I'm trying to get used to players so I apologize that it seems like I'm asking for games as busy work when I really am not.

Wait Ari gave me a townread? Why does that scare you

Kuti, I tried to find your Sabi (?) account on MU and couldn't find it. Is it still there?

I'm Kuti plz (there's a space)

Here are my previous games. I also have a syndicate game I finished if you want me to add it

So who knows each other from the playerlist and what's yall experience levels and what not.

Links to old games as both alignments would be appreciated. I can do the same as well.

I know no one from this player list. As for experience, I played a few games here a couple of years back and that's about it.

Games in question:

[url=ttps://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=81548]Newbie 1973[/url] - Town
Newbie 1976 - Scum
Newbie 1983 - Town
Newbie 1988 - Town
Newbie 1991 - Scum

The newest game on this list is 2+ years old by now, so I'm not sure how relevant these will be in regard to my current playstyle, cause it's bound to have changed since my last game, despite not having played at all for the last 2 years. Still, I'm pretty sure there's useful stuff in there.

What about you?

I have played around year. Started in 2021.

I'm not going to link my one mafia game in MU because I'm ashamed of my extreme ate and deeply embarrassed by it. My other homesite is webdip and I can link those games with my iso:

First time randing mafia, multiball, I end gamed into a draw (1-1-1)

http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/ ... f=4&t=3784 game link
http://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?g= ... sharamSabi my iso

Second mafia rand, normal, mafia sweep and won

http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/ ... f=4&t=3915 game link
http://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?g= ... sharamSabi my iso

Here are my mu town games:
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/35684
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/35591
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/36308
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/36135
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/threads/35929

I'm Kuti plz in mu

Wait Ari gave me a townread? Why does that scare you

yknow what I completely mixed you up with KittyTacky

I was like Ari only talked about me in three post and it was just about my identity and mu lol

Dann I hope you read my old games

GL I think I'm ready to sheep you again part2

None of this looks to be coming from a scum iso. This reads like a townie mindset to me.

[fireisredsir]

Dann was also being extremely lamisty this early in the game. It was freaking rvs, nothing remotely scum indicative about my not commenting on that.

i don't agree here. i thought at the time that popping in without commenting on it was scummy as well. the whole point was that me and GL was one of the first big things that *wasn't* rvs, so treating it as if everything so far was rvs and not worth commenting on was strange from everyone who did

[Loki Dokie]

Dann was also being extremely lamisty this early in the game. It was freaking rvs, nothing remotely scum indicative about my not commenting on that.

i don't agree here. i thought at the time that popping in without commenting on it was scummy as well. the whole point was that me and GL was one of the first big things that *wasn't* rvs, so treating it as if everything so far was rvs and not worth commenting on was strange from everyone who did

I disagree because game just literally started and I generally don’t respond to much until I’ve had time to actually process the game and I was extremely exhausted like I said, so was in no position to comment but Dann definitely having no reaction to you unvoting me was definitely hella strange. Town!Dann would have 100% reacted to it. He made a huge deal about your case but has no reaction to you suddenly unvoting me because you recognized my main? I find that at least, highly unlikely. Even if you’re going to argue he didn’t actually know who I was yet, he had no reaction to it whatsoever and that’s the part that pings me the most.

[Loki Dokie]

Furtive glance and anyone else,

Want to share your old games so I can get a feel of how you play as either alignments

:curtain:

I don't really like this

kutiplz have you gotten any value out of reading cold meta in the past?

Why tf. is Dann sr this anyway? In what world is this a scummy question?

These serirs of posts also ping me. Why is asking for cold meta reads ever scum indicative? Not saying scum couldn’t ever make such a post but it’s a weird post for Dann to be jumping on.

[Loki Dokie]

I think the main thing GL picked up on with fire that appealed to me was that they seemed to have a post-hoc justification for a read that didn't come off to me as an entirely natural train of though. Rather, it felt like it could have been someone searching for a reason to support that read. The whole logical error part of the argument is less enticing to me. Town make logical errors in their thinking all the time, it's more the feeling that it wasn't a natural train of thought for fire that lead me to like GL's argument.

I'll chicken out and say fire is still a pretty mixed read. They strike me as a good player and while the stuff GL is putting pressure on has me suspicious I think I need a much larger volume of content from them to develop a better read.

Meanwhile, Roden's pop-in was lacking a lot to be desired. It took the form of that cookie-cutter scum pop-in that I tend towards a lot when I have a red PM.
1.

place a vote down on an easy to push townie

2. throw out a read for content
3. make one more post about anything to appear natural

more votes here

Roden is right about one thing, It’s extremely hard to miselim me. And most players who pocket me usually wind up to be players who initially jumped on me for silly reasons because it’s so difficult to tell the difference between actual town who changed their mind and scum doing the same thing. Of course Kitty was obviously an exception.

[furtiveglance]

Well, so far it seems like GL and Loki are leaning towards Dannflor, and Fire/Vivax/RR are leaning towards kuti plz.

[furtiveglance]

I think the main thing GL picked up on with fire that appealed to me was that they seemed to have a post-hoc justification for a read that didn't come off to me as an entirely natural train of though. Rather, it felt like it could have been someone searching for a reason to support that read. The whole logical error part of the argument is less enticing to me. Town make logical errors in their thinking all the time, it's more the feeling that it wasn't a natural train of thought for fire that lead me to like GL's argument.

I'll chicken out and say fire is still a pretty mixed read. They strike me as a good player and while the stuff GL is putting pressure on has me suspicious I think I need a much larger volume of content from them to develop a better read.

Meanwhile, Roden's pop-in was lacking a lot to be desired. It took the form of that cookie-cutter scum pop-in that I tend towards a lot when I have a red PM.
1.

place a vote down on an easy to push townie

2. throw out a read for content
3. make one more post about anything to appear natural

more votes here

Roden is right about one thing, It’s extremely hard to miselim me. And most players who pocket me usually wind up to be players who initially jumped on me for silly reasons because it’s so difficult to tell the difference between actual town who changed their mind and scum doing the same thing. Of course Kitty was obviously an exception.

I thought you were mislim bait and that was your whole paranoid shtick this game.....probably doesn't matter but yeah

[furtiveglance]

Well, so far it seems like GL and Loki are leaning towards Dannflor, and Fire/Vivax/RR are leaning towards kuti plz.

Anyway, follow up to this is I'd know who I'd rather vote with, regardless of who we're actually voting.

[Radical Rat]

Furtive glance and anyone else,

Want to share your old games so I can get a feel of how you play as either alignments

:curtain:

I don't really like this

kutiplz have you gotten any value out of reading cold meta in the past?

Why tf. is Dann sr this anyway? In what world is this a scummy question?

These serirs of posts also ping me. Why is asking for cold meta reads ever scum indicative? Not saying scum couldn’t ever make such a post but it’s a weird post for Dann to be jumping on.

It could be used by scum to provide an appearance of doing something without actually contributing to the game. Especially if all that meta reading never gets brought up again, which I don't believe it was in this case.

[Radical Rat]

Well, so far it seems like GL and Loki are leaning towards Dannflor, and Fire/Vivax/RR are leaning towards kuti plz.

Anyway, follow up to this is I'd know who I'd rather vote with, regardless of who we're actually voting.

This actually does concern me as well. Unfortunately, I have concerns on both sides, and those concerns aren't likely to be alleviated until I get to see how Dann and kuti flip.

[Loki Dokie]

Well, so far it seems like GL and Loki are leaning towards Dannflor, and Fire/Vivax/RR are leaning towards kuti plz.

I realized that my entire reason for wifom tr Dann didn’t really make all that much sense mechwse. If Dann is town here, why does scum pick Kuti as an option?

Scum is down 1 point, they can’t risk town getting another point. In a different kind of game, my initial wifom read would have made more sense.

But Dann saying both that I’m “weird” AND that voting me was “funnier” is really strange. It sounds almost a bit like a tmi. These two thoughts really don’t make a helluva lot of sense together.

[Loki Dokie]

I think the main thing GL picked up on with fire that appealed to me was that they seemed to have a post-hoc justification for a read that didn't come off to me as an entirely natural train of though. Rather, it felt like it could have been someone searching for a reason to support that read. The whole logical error part of the argument is less enticing to me. Town make logical errors in their thinking all the time, it's more the feeling that it wasn't a natural train of thought for fire that lead me to like GL's argument.

I'll chicken out and say fire is still a pretty mixed read. They strike me as a good player and while the stuff GL is putting pressure on has me suspicious I think I need a much larger volume of content from them to develop a better read.

Meanwhile, Roden's pop-in was lacking a lot to be desired. It took the form of that cookie-cutter scum pop-in that I tend towards a lot when I have a red PM.
1.

place a vote down on an easy to push townie

2. throw out a read for content
3. make one more post about anything to appear natural

more votes here

Roden is right about one thing, It’s extremely hard to miselim me. And most players who pocket me usually wind up to be players who initially jumped on me for silly reasons because it’s so difficult to tell the difference between actual town who changed their mind and scum doing the same thing. Of course Kitty was obviously an exception.

I thought you were mislim bait and that was your whole paranoid shtick this game.....probably doesn't matter but yeah

And that’s yet another thing I would expect town!Dann to take into consideration but I really think him not reacting to fire’s unvote at all was really odd. If I had just voted a sr and another player who previously just unvoted them. I would definitely want to know why but Dann votes me for not supposedly being “curious” about a case when we were still in rvs but he isn’t remotely curious as to either why fire unvoted me or who he thinks I might be that caused him to unvote. Does that make sense to anyone?