Open 861: The Turing Test [game over]

[Loki Dokie]

long answer short my vote on fire isn't doing anything right now

your reaction to him and me is weird

and voting you is just funnier right now

I see both of these thoughts as being inconsistent. Why would he think my reaction was funny if he actually thought I was possibly scum or “weird”?

It reads like he knew he needed to somehiw justify his bad vote on me, which makes it read insincere.

I don't really think this is as big a slip as you think it is. In tandem with everything else though... yeah, I'm coming around to Dann looking worse than kuti.


Problem I have though is that it could just be because kuti doesn't have that many posts with which to appear scummy... But it's probably fine. Deal with it after the flips.

But why is Dann even paired with someone like Kuti if they’re scum here? Wouldn’t you think scum would choose more of a deep wolf hypothetically to pair with town!Dann? My initial reaction was to vote Kuti until GL made me question that and then and only then, did I decide to seriously case both of them.

I think scum wanted us to take the most superficial stance and just auto-assume that they wifommed us with Dann!town and it actually fits, so long as you don’t actually look deeper and realize how agenday Dann’s posts actually are and how there’s actually really nothing particularly scummy about any of Kuti’s posting but scum was obviously logically counting on lazy town not bothering to do that, because they usually don’t bother.

I usually don’t do as much as a deep dive in most games but it’s not really all that hard when you only have to bother with two players. It’s almost like a mini elo.

[Loki Dokie]

Wolves down bad.

Not to form a wolfy little narrative but I kind of want to bumrush through this day with a Dann elim. Feel decently okay about him being a wolf, and I think maybe the idea was for someone to like, really build up a case on Dann and flip and go throughout the game, hope wolves can get up to like 2-2 and then send it home for them.
Seems simplistic but this game is ? right now.

Is this shading Loki?

I have no idea what this is but I think it’s absolutely ridiculous. Scum is already down one point, in no world would they risk putting it to 2-0.

[Loki Dokie]

Fyi. I don’t tr don/Greeting/Vulture slot and was actually seriously considering voting there when I unvoted Vivax. So @RR, you could possibly be onto something with this.

[Loki Dokie]

the wagon is on a slot getting replaced, they are effectively dead votes

The slot's scummy actions are not undone, we should wait for a replacement though.

This was actually one of the reasons I wrongly tr Kitty because I found the replace out slightly suspicious and then Greeting weirdly reps out, now this odd post from Vulture.

This makes me even more convinced than ever on Dann!scum now.

[Radical Rat]

Y'know what
VOTE: Dannflor

Vulture's post ONLY makes sense in this world, plus all the other stuff. I'm convinced now.

[Vulture]

Oh, no shade to anyone in particular. Was just worldbuilding a potential for why Dann, if a wolf, was put up as an option.

It makes someone look good to be able to catch the deepwolf out, just like that. So, if he is wolf, discussion is good and all but denying someone the chance to like... nurture a ""good solve"" or credit as a wolf would be good.

Then again, I also think that this setup is like, super WIFOM-y and poweryeeting Dann prooooobably isn't good either. Even if I want to, due diligence, etc. I wanna feel like the strategist here.

[Vulture]

I think it'd be pretty goofy if I was a wolf to go off and attack random other players and drum up ire in this situation, anyways. Fixating on the two in the seat is almost always the best play for a woofer.

[Datisi]

vote count 2.02

with 10 votes in play, it takes 6 to make a decision. day 2 ends in (expired on 2022-08-18 01:15:00).

yeet

kutiplz [1]:

Vivax

Dannflor [1]:

Radical Rat

not voting [8]:

Loki Dokie, furtiveglance, Vulture, GuiltyLion, Aristeia, fireisredsir, Bell, Roden

mod notes

~ this is a mod note.

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: Dannflor

[furtiveglance]

I think even if we get this one wrong, we're still in a good position, I'm happy with my current townreads so to challenge us mafia have to pick from a quite limited pool of players.

[GuiltyLion]

sorry I haven't done much yet, I'm visiting family this weekend so not online much, I've read along but haven't revisited a lot of D1 and frankly I am also kinda waiting to see what Ari thinks so far once she's able to dig back into the game

I think Loki has a good find on the perspective/TMI slip of it being "funnier" to vote Loki

[fireisredsir]

huh? i don't think thats a TMI slip at all

maybe bc i had almost exactly the same reasoning/reaction. i was finding it funny as well bc loki's reaction seemed so unbelievable to me, and it felt like he was flailing under the slightest amount of pressure. it wouldn't have been funny if he was town, id feel bad for causing that kind of reaction. it's only a funny situation if he's scum. it's the same perspective

and then i took a look at some past games and figured out who he was and then it immediately made sense and was no longer funny

[Loki Dokie]

huh? i don't think thats a TMI slip at all

maybe bc i had almost exactly the same reasoning/reaction. i was finding it funny as well bc loki's reaction seemed so unbelievable to me, and it felt like he was flailing under the slightest amount of pressure. it wouldn't have been funny if he was town, id feel bad for causing that kind of reaction. it's only a funny situation if he's scum. it's the same perspective

and then i took a look at some past games and figured out who he was and then it immediately made sense and was no longer funny

I don’t understand this at all. Why would it be funny unless he thought I was town and trolling me?

Chkfkip did that to me in a game, He knew I would get upset so he did it intentionally and it was pretty mean considering he flipped vig and he only made it clear post-game that he never sr me but enjoyed getting me riled up.

[Bell]

idk what the optimal way to play it is but i just know that town!you would be thinking about it

wouldn't scum!Ari be thinking about how town!Ari would play and how town!Ari would think about it? I don't think this is a town indicative thing

shhhh im letting her pocket me

i think its slightly town indicative. i don't think that ari's main priority as scum is to match how she'd play as town, and i don't think most people would really would have that reaction or that she would expect them to. so if it was performative it was a very directed performance

Why are you trying to pocket her

they seem to be somewhat tongue-in-cheek

but the random town reads from Aristeia make me uneasy, especially in this setup

this sounds like a post made by someone who feels obligated to start posting real content but doesn't really have much to say yet

Code: Select all

Do you believe this is due to AI programming, or a simple human instinct?

Is this going to be a game long gimmick

Basically reading how people play helps me read them better so. I'm not misunderstanding them due to play style reasons. I think I make sense to people that aren't me?

Spoiler:

We are currently in rvs so nothing is pinging me as awkward or stiff in an uncomfortable mafia way yet.

How do I share photos

Furtive glance and anyone else,

Want to share your old games so I can get a feel of how you play as either alignments

:curtain:

idk what the optimal way to play it is but i just know that town!you would be thinking about it

wouldn't scum!Ari be thinking about how town!Ari would play and how town!Ari would think about it? I don't think this is a town indicative thing

shhhh im letting her pocket me

i think its slightly town indicative. i don't think that ari's main priority as scum is to match how she'd play as town, and i don't think most people would really would have that reaction or that she would expect them to. so if it was performative it was a very directed performance

Why are you trying to pocket her

they seem to be somewhat tongue-in-cheek

but the random town reads from Aristeia make me uneasy, especially in this setup

this sounds like a post made by someone who feels obligated to start posting real content but doesn't really have much to say yet

Code: Select all

Do you believe this is due to AI programming, or a simple human instinct?

Is this going to be a game long gimmick

I'm going to be honest none of these posts or the bolded questions inside of them really feel like genuine thoughts to me. Or rather, they are very surface level questions pushed out so that you have something to say

I'm not really getting the sense you actually want the answers to any of these questions nor that you hope some productivity will spark out of them. I might be being unfair if this is a strategy you've relied on in the past but the first one especially pings me because it strikes me as highly unlikely that anyone would be able to get reasonable value out of trawling through past games of a bunch of players they are unfamiliar with

as the very first step

to getting to know them. It seems like a way to seem productive but actually avoid having to prod people about this game. Instead it would seem more natural to me if you were prodding people about this game.

granted, you are doing that too... sorta. but "how to post photos" and the "is this going to be a game long gimmick" are both questions that like don't really require an answer, or I'm not sure what value you're hoping to gain by posting them in thread

i also find the part of the fireisred's post that you latched onto like the least interesting part because it seems clearly jokey

Yes we are in RVS and you claim nothing has been pinging you as off - but that means I expect your following questions to be trying to prod people that you think are off or just trying to get people out of their comfort zone, but I feel like I'm seeing more just posts to fill space

pedit:

it is very possible your playstyle is more fluffy here and I am misreading you based off that. how would you describe how you're trying to play this early game?

You can check my previous game on ms (is it loaded?) where I was town. I am very fluffy day one because I like conversation. I also asked about people's old games and what not because I do in fact read old games. It takes me a day or two to get comfortable in a game to start pushing on people.

I'm new to this site and like to be aware of people's playstyles. Shoot me for that.

do you have any impressions of any players yet? if not anything pinging you scummy has anything struck you as towny? or not really anything at all yet

Fire feels very natural and fluid so far, nothing towny yet since it's been NAI content.

Waiting for GL to do something AI so I can sheep if he's towny again.

Ari, I have only played turbos and one mash with, hasn't really given anything AI related. Her shit posting doesn't feel awkward.

I honestly can't read people that do gimmicks so I'm already annoyed at that slot.

I do like the pressure you are applying to me.

That's all I got so far.

interesting

I am skeptical of the value of cold meta versus personal history with someone when it comes to returning anything alignment indicative but I won't argue the point

I mean when you are new to a playerlist, you gotta take cold meta and it clearly helped me in my last game. I rather get myself familar with players than have no idea about them.

meh, okay. I'm not going to lie and say I have any more stronger impressions than you do.

I apologize if I came off as somewhat abrasive but you're a newer player (I think?) and I was hoping you might panic a little bit if I laid it on somewhat thick. and I think it's ever so mildly towny that you didn't just start making up reads on people because I put some pressure on you

I think I'm still most scared of Aristeia for handing out free town reads to Kutiplz and GL

I only played three games on ms but one was a hydra so I don't count that one. This is my second solo game on here. It's just a routine I do when I'm trying to get used to players so I apologize that it seems like I'm asking for games as busy work when I really am not.

Wait Ari gave me a townread? Why does that scare you

GL I think I'm ready to sheep you again part2

Wait the case on roden was that they were emotional?

Hi sorry I forgot about this game

kuti has 32 posts and i counted like, maybe 2 opinions total

hi kuti i would like to hear some more opinions plz

If I remember correctly, you really like to base your reads off meta. I have played with

kutiplz

on MU and my impression is that they sound no different to what they did in the games I've played with them on that site.

ive looked at a few of their games and the tone is similar yes but the level of content is not

I just forgot the game. I am going to catch up right now and give my opinions. Again I'm sorry

Oh and I asked Kuti cause I thought they'd like to be asked about their opinion and the read on Greeting could prove useful down the line.

My read so far in greeting/west is like I kinda don't like their attempt at buddying me. We had only played two games and idk if that makes them an expert on my meta since I play low activity in ms.


Besides the buddying, from what I have read so far, I have them as town lean ish vibes

And I'd add that if kuti is mafia (seems less vocal from what I'd expect from them as town), them not replying to me asking about that could be from a situation where they'd have to commit to agreeing with a mafia teammate (Greeting). Might stem from them being nervous about looking like that. But I can't dismiss other reasons.

I'm just not active in ms games truth be told. Look at my last ms game and the Hydra.

But no i dont think greeting is mafia. Weird they and you keep focusing on me tho

Town ish vibes:

GuiltyLion: my first tr of the game, very much like they were in our previous games, just overall a gut and soul read
Loki: feeling good about this slot, their solving is logical (like how they are doing it in the thread), I like the effort to look into Vivax old game. In p#602
Greetign: weakest of the three, I feel like her emotions have been genuine. Dunno how to feel about the buddying
Kitty: weakest of them all, a town lean, their tone is genuine and maybe im weak to it.

Scummy vibes:
Dann: I feel like they kinda fell off since the beginning (I know I'm being a hypocrite)
Ari: I dunno how to feel about them trying to buddy everyone and her post have been agenda driven
Vivax: his tone and what not is not what I'm used to. He doesn't feel towny because he's missing his trademark tinfoil. I am sus of him
VOTE: vivax

Tbh, the first half of their early posts make me wonder why I was so suspicious of them when they basically entered like how I would enter a game.
The second half of their posts however, doesn't make any sense.
Who asks to meta a bunch of people, a significant time investment,and then says they forgot about the game and, in fact, they aren't very active in their games on MS.
At first I thought it was a joke but then they straight faced it on the second post.

fixed broken quote tags. ~D

[Bell]

plz fix mod, thx.

[fireisredsir]

VOTE: Loki Dokie

Is anyone going to explain why I’m getting voted?

I hope people are watching the votes on me.

Dann expressed suspicion on Fire and GL and is now voting me.

Could this possibly be scum theatre?

Like it’s seriously weird that you’re voting me after sussing on Fire who’s now voting me.

Your naked vote on me may even be worse if possible.

@loki, from a perspective of thinking you were scum and not knowing who you were, i thought this post was p funny, because it looks like wild flailing and scum panicking, not understanding why they were caught, and i found that entertaining

once i knew who you were it no longer looked scummy to me and it wasn't funny anymore bc you have that kind of reaction to suspicion on you as town too

i don't think it's funny to intentionally rile up town and idk dann that well but i don't really get the impression that he would either

i imagine he had a similar reaction of amusement at the reaction except that he didn't figure out who you were until later

[Loki Dokie]

I don’t see that at all. This is exactly how I respond to nonsensical shitpushes on me. And I’ll say it again: why did Dann have no reaction whatsoever to you unvoting based pff of knowing who I was?

if Dann had voted me first and unvoted me because he realized who I was, would you have absolutely no reaction to that whatsoever?

Like wouldn’t you ask a question like, is that nia or town indicative for them? because I sure as hell would want to know why the person I just sheeped unvoted. I wouldn’t just make some ridiculous comment like that.

@fire


@Bell, Idk but wouldn’t scum be most likely to start out with their strongest scum player not the weakest? I also question whether Roden who’s not a buddy jumps on me like that. If he’s scum, does it really make that much sense that he’d jump on me like that if Dann is town? I guess that all depends on whether or not you sr Roden or not but I think they have high buddy equity, especially based off of that game I linked.

[Datisi]

prodding Aristeia, Vivax, and Roden.

[Vulture]

Ugh.

It doesn't really make sense to start with your strongest player in this position though, because you're already down a voice to help you sort through things, and you're like...

When you make your strongest player the one in the hot seat they lose the ability to vouch for themselves in a large capacity, because everything's under scrutiny. A weaker team might struggle to help push them through as the vote without making it obvious they're paired after the flip.

:V It's a temporary benefit for the present.

[Vivax]

Spoiler:

Apologies for my absence. Was outdoors and not really feeling like writing from phone. Maybe this will make up for it. But I think only you are entitled to change your thoughts to the solution that fits.
I've been contemplating a lot about the recent experiences playing this game. Various hints and the like.

For one thinking about 'anomalies' and the like. In game and out of the game. About being able to perceive oneself differently while typing out thoughts in a game of mafia.
Because it's really surprising to gauge how different you can be from your normal self when looking through a screen, the mirror that separates your reality from another.
And having the ability to finish your thoughts and communicate them as honestly and detailed as possible. In a game of lies. Everything is a lie here until proven otherwise.
This is why it's so valuable to have a space where such a mindset is possible. It's a space that can throw a lot around and on its head.

And why the picture from the host I quoted is not an error, but something to be expected from an AI that is sufficiently intelligent to reach the same conclusion as others who play this game.

Why do we even have to laugh? That's so pointless. I've been wondering why state=laughing in a biology context isn't categorized as its own emotion. Maybe laughing is also an anomaly.
We often laugh at an obvious lie to a statement, depending on the intention we expect from the liar. Maybe that's your clue.

I could go on into a more metaphysical view of things, but I'll abstain for now.

[fireisredsir]

thank you for sharing, vivax

[Vivax]

thank you for sharing, vivax

I don't know how much is enough. But I need time for other stuff sometimes, and often overlook when someone tries to force me into a schedule while I'm busy playing this game to the best of my ability. Need to balance the dimensions you could say.

[Vivax]

But I guess adding more to the mix won't hurt.
I was certainly amused when my friends two days ago brought up a local folklore tale about children born on a Sunday, who, after taking a piece with a hole from a dead person's coffin, are able to see the true face of people when looking through it. They initially thought that it's a gift from god, to find out later that it was a gift from the devil.

[Roden]

Well, so far it seems like GL and Loki are leaning towards Dannflor, and Fire/Vivax/RR are leaning towards kuti plz.

Anyway, follow up to this is I'd know who I'd rather vote with, regardless of who we're actually voting.

This actually does concern me as well. Unfortunately, I have concerns on both sides, and those concerns aren't likely to be alleviated until I get to see how Dann and kuti flip.

What are your concerns and who with?

Vivax is the obvious one. It worries me greatly that my top scumread from D1 has arrived at the same conclusion, but with so many scum it seems a bit farfetched that BOTH leading wagons were on scum. Plus if kuti IS scum it actually makes Vivax look significantly better.

And then I also have a growing paranoia that GL could be deepwolfing here, but that isn't really substantiated by anything yet. I just find it very strange that no one has really expressed suspicion on him. Like, you'd think at least one or two scum would be trying to sow doubt on a true obvtown. And then if Dannflor flips green.... Not a great look.


But without flips I can't really draw proper conclusions here. Kitty's flip is... Spectacularly uninformative, which is why there may have been merit to scum sacrificing him. This pair is going to be much juicier though

There've been a few slots that haven't had much suspicion on them, not just GL. Why him in particular?

[Loki Dokie]

@Vivax, do you have any new thoughts about Dann v Kuti?

I’ve decided to reset because the possibility of scum!Dann actually getting away with and being rewarded for that horrible vote on me is just infuriating to me and that could possibly be affecting my read of him v Kuti.

Objectively Dann was making a lot of pushes on different players and not a lot of townreads, which is more what I would tend to expect from town!Dann. Basically, the way he made pushes in Forrest Fire is closer to what we’ve seen from Ari so far.

I probably should also not speculate on Roden’s alignment. I just feel that a lot of Dann’s takes and not just on me, did seem truly over the top. After all, it was rvs and I failed to respond to a post because I was tired and wasn’t up to reading it. I just don’t know if it’s typical for town!Dann to act so alarmist when the game has pretty much barely even started.

However, Bell does make some very valid points, so idk. \_0_/

Anyway, while I was unsure on d1, I think it’s pretty damned obvious now that Bell is very likely town here.