Open 861: The Turing Test [game over]

[Aristeia]

Bell's inactivity is a p bad look and points to him being probably just scum.

I think Dann decided to try to push Bell d1 to salvage the KT situation but when he couldn't get traction he basically gave up and bussed KT.

Dann probably figures if he flips here that gives Bell enough towncred tommorrow after he flips to somehow escape off distancing later down the line.

[Aristeia]

fire being one of the most vocal dann supporters with logic thats surface level correct is also kind of strange to me

like the principles he's using are correct but they're correct in a way that would be correct even if Dann flips scum here;

which feels like thats his primary consideration rather than who is town/scum within the Dann/Kuti dichotomy


everything is about loss, strategy, and like how a scum team looks at resources rather than

who is actually scum

Rather than trying to win by voting out who is scum, its all about mitigating a possible loss that creates a narrative further down the line that feels somewhat like putting the cart before the horse.

[Aristeia]

in fact its wholly irrelevant to what I think of Kittys alignment!

It's not irrelevant to what you think of Dannflor
It's not irrelevant to think about Dannflor's alignment
Unless your plan is to withhold information on his alignment, is it that?

I don't know I didn't get a reply to these questions from Aristeia. Made before we limmed KT

I have no reason to explain my reads prior to scum making decisions about who to put in front of me because I am capable of being wrong and I prefer the scum not to know who i am wrong about.

I have a very hard time changing my mind usually.

Dann's alignment at the time is wholly irrelevant to Kitty making the remarks he made because Kitty's play did not make sense from a town perspective.

If Kitty is town, he is uninformed by definition of Dann's alignment so it is wholly irrelevant to my interrogation of Kitty.

[Loki Dokie]

@Ari, you’re definitely wrong on Bell. There’s just no way Bell is scum here. You’re argument makes more sense if scum!Dann was trying to miselim town!Bell.

I know Bell!scum meta and this 100% ain’t it. Read Bell in Among Us where he’s as wooden af and tell me that these posts are in anyway similar.

[Loki Dokie]

Bell's inactivity is a p bad look and points to him being probably just scum.

I think Dann decided to try to push Bell d1 to salvage the KT situation but when he couldn't get traction he basically gave up and bussed KT.

Dann probably figures if he flips here that gives Bell enough towncred tommorrow after he flips to somehow escape off distancing later down the line.

If Bell and Kitty are both scum, why would Dann push Bell over Kitty? I mean, Bell is like the most obvious scum ever. No way does scum!Kitty die over scum!Bell. I promise you, Bell begs to die in his scum pt because he absolutely hates being scum. I would know, I was buddies with him in Pooky v FL. His arguments here are nuanced. He just can’t fake doing that as scum.

[Loki Dokie]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=34613

Town!Bell

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=34613

Scum!Bell

Okay, maybe it’s not that obvious as I thought but your argument that Dann wants cred for killing Bell over Kitty, like just why? If both are buddie, why would Dann even care which one he busses?

[Loki Dokie]

I also want to noted that fire was also in KATANE and Bell wrongly sr him. Like I don’t think this decision is at all obvious so I wouldn’t assume that having a wrong take on whichever one - by itself - necessarily means anything.

I do agreee that fire needs to look a lot deeper because nothing he’s tr Dann for here, he couldn’t also do as scum. I don’t see this vote in anyway as a slam dunk.

I’m also not convinced that fire is necessarily scum if Dann is but his argument that wrongly voting Dann is somehow worse > wrongly voting Kuti makes absolutely no sense regardless.

I also strongly tr furtive but fire probably doesn’t look too great on a Dann red flip. But if Dann was trying to bus Bell. I don’t see why that wouldn’t have happened.

[fireisredsir]

@Ari, you’re definitely wrong on Bell. There’s just no way Bell is scum here. You’re argument makes more sense if scum!Dann was trying to miselim town!Bell.

I know Bell!scum meta and this 100% ain’t it. Read Bell in Among Us where he’s as wooden af and tell me that these posts are in anyway similar.

very strong disagree

[fireisredsir]

fire being one of the most vocal dann supporters with logic thats surface level correct is also kind of strange to me

like the principles he's using are correct but they're correct in a way that would be correct even if Dann flips scum here;

which feels like thats his primary consideration rather than who is town/scum within the Dann/Kuti dichotomy


everything is about loss, strategy, and like how a scum team looks at resources rather than

who is actually scum

Rather than trying to win by voting out who is scum, its all about mitigating a possible loss that creates a narrative further down the line that feels somewhat like putting the cart before the horse.

if im picking who i think is more likely to be scum then it's kuti every time. i don't really care that strongly about going into why but maybe i should idk, maybe i will be able focus on this game more now that frenemies is over

the loss and resources thing was just something that i think is also relevant and maybe more interesting for people to hear than my reasons which im not that confident in anyway

im sleepy ill talk more tomorrow

[fireisredsir]

you also could just be right on dann/bell and i should sheep you until proven otherwise since you were right on kitty

tbh sheeping a townread is prob the best strategy here in terms of winning an individual point

[fireisredsir]

oh also my other thought was that like... scum are gonna be trying to predict the ways in which town are thinking, and choose the pairs based on that. i want to try to predict the ways in which scum would predict the ways that town would be thinking, and then think unpredictably

hope that makes sense :>

[Datisi]

prodding GuiltyLion.

[furtiveglance]

i think Bell/Dann are S/S and this game is basically over

I agree zomg, with RR/Vivax for the third.

[Vivax]

i think Bell/Dann are S/S and this game is basically over

I agree zomg, with RR/Vivax for the third.

RadicalRat? How so?

[furtiveglance]

i think Bell/Dann are S/S and this game is basically over

I agree zomg, with RR/Vivax for the third.

RadicalRat? How so?

Feels like they're deliberately positioning themselves to align with certain players rather than natural thought process and see if people agree.

[Datisi]

prodding Bell.

[Bell]

Apologies.

VOTE: Kutplz

Ultimately I’m incredibly conflicted on Dann, and I don’t want to embarrass myself by misreading him. Made town posts. Made scum posts. I don’t eee much like an agenda, even though his pushes felt agendey he *sort of* kept his way of treating people the same. It’s not great but he seems to have used his yardstick about the same for everyone based on how they played. It’s terrible because it feels less like a read than watching someone play off a policy. But at least he had a policy. Inconsistency isn’t a scum tell, nor is consistency.
I’m not satisfied, but life happens.

[Bell]

Gotta go to work. First day of middle school.

[Bell]

The lack of focus on the players we have to choose from today bothers me. Especially because all it does is tell the scum team who to pair.
But w/e. Bit late for that.

[Vivax]

i think Bell/Dann are S/S and this game is basically over

I agree zomg, with RR/Vivax for the third.

RadicalRat? How so?

Feels like they're deliberately positioning themselves to align with certain players rather than natural thought process and see if people agree.

Good tinfoil for a player on KT wagon

[Loki Dokie]

Apologies.

VOTE: Kutplz

Ultimately I’m incredibly conflicted on Dann, and I don’t want to embarrass myself by misreading him. Made town posts. Made scum posts. I don’t eee much like an agenda, even though his pushes felt agendey he *sort of* kept his way of treating people the same. It’s not great but he seems to have used his yardstick about the same for everyone based on how they played. It’s terrible because it feels less like a read than watching someone play off a policy. But at least he had a policy. Inconsistency isn’t a scum tell, nor is consistency.
I’m not satisfied, but life happens.

It was proven to be so with Kitty. And I disagree. Because it speaks to mindset but I agree it’s also context dependent.

But you have Dann both saying that Vivax wagon is “disgusting” as opposed to just wrong and that scum “sacrificed” Kitty. Well which is it? Because “disgusting” heavily implies scum driven, does it not? And if Vivax wagon was scum driven, than how could Kitty have been “sacrificed” by scum?

This type of inconsistency doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. @Furtive, I think Vivax is probably a Dann pocket if he’s scum here. Scum generally wouldn’t characterize a wagon on their buddy that way. If Dann is scum, that reads tmi to me.

@Bell, if you’re so “incredibly conflicted” then why are you voting Kuti?

Idk what to think rn. This isn’t obvtown!Bell or I would have townlocked you d1 but I still don’t understand why according to Ari, Dann tries to bus you > Kitty?

[Loki Dokie]

i think Bell/Dann are S/S and this game is basically over

I agree zomg, with RR/Vivax for the third.

RadicalRat? How so?

Feels like they're deliberately positioning themselves to align with certain players rather than natural thought process and see if people agree.

How are RR and Vivax ever buddies when RR tried really hard to ram his wagon through? That’s well beyond distancing.

[Radical Rat]

i think Bell/Dann are S/S and this game is basically over

I agree zomg, with RR/Vivax for the third.

RadicalRat? How so?

Feels like they're deliberately positioning themselves to align with certain players rather than natural thought process and see if people agree.

And here I was thinking we might get along this game...

In all seriousness though, I don't really understand this accusation. If I were just trying to align myself with certain players, by which I can only assume you mean Loki since we've agreed on things a few times, why did it take so long to convince me on Dann being scum, to the point where even as I started to see it as a possibility it took Vulture showing up and scumclaiming to actually seal the deal? Why do I get nervous about GL instead of trying to rope him into my nefarious fake townbloc?

[furtiveglance]

i think Bell/Dann are S/S and this game is basically over

I agree zomg, with RR/Vivax for the third.

RadicalRat? How so?

Feels like they're deliberately positioning themselves to align with certain players rather than natural thought process and see if people agree.

How are RR and Vivax ever buddies when RR tried really hard to ram his wagon through? That’s well beyond distancing.

I didn't say buddies, I said one or the other.

[furtiveglance]

i think Bell/Dann are S/S and this game is basically over

I agree zomg, with RR/Vivax for the third.

RadicalRat? How so?

Feels like they're deliberately positioning themselves to align with certain players rather than natural thought process and see if people agree.

And here I was thinking we might get along this game...

In all seriousness though, I don't really understand this accusation. If I were just trying to align myself with certain players, by which I can only assume you mean Loki since we've agreed on things a few times, why did it take so long to convince me on Dann being scum, to the point where even as I started to see it as a possibility it took Vulture showing up and scumclaiming to actually seal the deal? Why do I get nervous about GL instead of trying to rope him into my nefarious fake townbloc?

Idk, and it doesn't matter too much either, let's just vote on the flips and go from there. It's not like I can vote you out.