Open 862: Diffusion of Power (Game Over)

[NorwegianboyEE]

Has your read on Gamma changed?

I felt like our 1v1 was making the game intolerable so i backed off to give it more thought.

[Enchant]

You?

Sry.
Ok so i've been feeling that both Enchant and N_M are suspicious like you've stated yourself. But these are the typical "mislim" players so if i'm wrong about a player being scum it's likely in those two.
PenguinPower i don't think has been very townie. Mostly their day 2 has been mech talk, and then just responding to stuff otherwise. Which is a bit like filler imo.
Goldfish seriously needs to be more active, only an early unexplained claim and then afk is scummy. I can't read their townie motivation for what they did.

Otherwise i find most slots townie or null. Want Jake to post more.

I think NM is town

if

when Norwe flips mafia.

No reason for teammate to throw self at sword to give NM towncred.

[Not_Mafia]

It's a bit early to be forming definitive opinions don't you think

when is this happening?

Wut

i'm asking you to give reads and push stuff instead of constantly shading me and making snarky comments. i saw one post from you with actual reads on people and i want more. with the amount of things you comment on ur clearly reading this game so what gives?

I do kind of agree with this though. Not_Mafia has been active and is clearly making observations, but virtually all of it just feels like casting 1-liners/shade and then moving on to the next person. Just kind of circling around to everyone (except maybe myself?), rinse, and repeat.

Brevity is the soul of wit my friend

[Not_Mafia]

So 2 dead cops and 2 claimed cops. Curious to see where this goes.

It's a cornucopia

[Not_Mafia]

mmm wonder if it’s not ideal to hold a popcorn-style, no-night mass claim…

Probably not. Scum know the numbers.

It could still narrow down scum pools though couldn't it

[Not_Mafia]

Probably not. Scum know the numbers.

yeah I mean, how would it help us to claim? cause if people say the night they're good on... scum can plan their kills around that... and claiming cop or doc.. scum knowing the numbers could just balance it out so it's more even.. I see no benefit in claiming

now the "cop" we do have... I don't don't trust it at all, like, until goldfish does something towny, they're chilling in the pool of people i sr

-Andante

You might want to brush up on your reading comprehension there buddy

[Not_Mafia]

@frog, finding the use of language a little bit emotional: there must be better words than abusive And gaslit. Can we tone it down a little? Like, I'm not even parsing the conversation and these touch paper words aren't helpful

“Touch paper”?
I probably understand the meaning of this less due to the existence of the phrase “touch grass”

Emotive I guess. The content doesn't seem like frog actually wants to upset the hydra, but the words are going to do that. Frogs response to everything seems really overblown but I'm not sure if scum would make this much noise?

Seems pretty classic overwhelmed n00b scum to me

[Not_Mafia]

I think mechanically, the argument to lim Goldfish is sound.
If they are mafia then that's a win.
If they are town that's unfortunate because we didn't hit scum, but they are town that already had an check. Meaning we won't lose any more town power. And if we have N2 doctor they can protect an confirmed town!Somnus that night. And even if we don't have an doctor for that night, mafia doesn't know that. So Somnus would likely not die anyway since any doctor worth their salt should be protecting our only conf!town in that instance.

How about it's only day 2 and we just scumhunt

[BlueBloodedToffee]

yea ok - fun times is town.

moving on.

How so?

It's more the odds that you ended up a Night 1 cop and investigated me when I was largely town-read except by Asuka,

who was only scum-reading me because they prematurely decided Alianna was absolutely going to flip red

and that I somehow must have been Alianna's scum-partner who was terrified to vote her off less than 24 hours into the game. A ridiculous conclusion on their part, but it happened.

This isn't entirely true, Ausuka's scum read on you started earlier in the game, before the Ali push.

andante's pressure on alianna was scum-aligned no matter what their alignment, there was literally nothing they could do to please you. that is not scumhunting and it is not solving, it is pushing for a d1 elimination on someone who if you are town should have no real confidence that they will actually flip scum. nothing abt andante's play aligns with a town!pov.

Alianna was acting pretty scummy to be fair, but you're right in terms of Fun Times giving her no wiggle room at all.

penguin power is solvey. it looks legit to me.

Please quote posts from Penguin showing he is solving.

Gonna come back to this after a bit more sleep, I just caught up and am now scum reading everyone apart from sonmus (old news) and gamma (new news).

Talk about Gamma not being scum please Bella?

I noticed you said you will expand on these reads so I'll look for that as I continue catching up.

VOTE: froggodoggo

Why?

Feels like an opportunistic and grimy vote choice

Can you explain how Enchant's vote was opportunistic?

i disagree with this, we have lots of time and I think making sure UTRs are actually town is good, but anyways the walkthrough of ur thought process helped a lot and I apologize for what I said earlier. i am kind of just SRing the playstyle and having the play by play helps to establish for me how it can be helpful and come from town.

will most likely change my vote i like the effort a lot. will wait til I get on laptop and can look at more ppl

FMPOV, I don't feel like Fun Times actually answered your main gripe with how they pushed Alianna and didn't allow her any room to breathe. You looking to move on is questionable, scum theatre?

UNVOTE: Fun times

VOTE: Enchant

Yeah, you're gonna have to walk me through this one.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Tbf it's really surprised me they were a check, they were my strongest tr day one.

Bella you have spoken about Somnus being your strongest TR and I think you alluded to it earlier in the game, too. Can you just quote some posts that show Somnus solving please?

Same for us.

Again, Somnus town reads from early game really need to be explained.

Like....I can understand copping a person you were unsure on/wouldn't be able to read but that would be enchant/not mad/even penguin power for me, just because of playstyle.

You disagree with Goldfish's reasoning for checking Somnus? I think he gave 4 reasons and you have disagreed with one?

C: I still sus Not_Mafia slot and they haven't improved whatsoever so what would change if i voted you? I still find you both scummy so changing my vote from A to B wouldn't change too much.

Did you not do this when you changed your vote from Gamma to NM?

Has your read on Gamma changed?

I felt like our 1v1 was making the game intolerable so i backed off to give it more thought.

And that is different to your 1v1 with Enchant how?

[Fun Times]

Spoiler:

Catching up on early D2 stuff, so bare with me please.

VOTE: norwegian

his reaction to the Alianna flip is over-the-top

Self-voting as town. Even more heinous crime.

this is what pinged me the hardest

Don't think I agree with any of this and I'm left wondering why the same logic wasn't applied to Fun Times who wrote a paragraph referencing the Ali flip.

Don’t have much time to post rn but that self hammer fkin sucked and I want to lim the hydra for putting such overwhelming pressure on Alianna. It was ludicrous

I get the sentiment behind this and it was my initial thought at start of D2 but Frog just doesn't read as town to me in this game at all so far.

because i don't know who i want to vote for rn...unlike the two of you who have expressed someone you do want to vote for...

I guess this is a problem when you bait a lolhammer when you have no reads, right?

VOTE: norwee

@bbt, I thought you didn't put a huge amount of stock into nka?

Bad vote Bella, I don't know if you expand on this vote at all but if not I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts. I actually used to rate NKA as a decent scum hunting tool and I still think it's vastly under rated.

they're almost certainly town despite the townflip imo

the confidence in the scumflip?

Gamma, you posted this in reference to Fun Times being town from the Ali flip. I'm not sure I agree, why couldn't they be scum super excited that a townie was acting so scummy they had secured an easy D1 mislim?

tbf I think 2-3 scum were of the Alianna wagon

If you haven't expanded more on this, can you?

Not gonna lie, I didn't realize we were ending the day like 36 hours into it, we definitely should not have ended it before Goldfish spoke. my bad! I mean, end of the day, no regrets? I legit SRed them, they self hammered, and then I was solving, and they flipped town, and I went "are you serious right now??" what TOWN self hammers there?? like dude.. oh well moving on, my next confident read is Not_Mafia being maf here, but like, we're not gonna speed through D2, woooooo I mean, I'm always down for speedgame... but I don't think anyone else would appreciate it lol

-Andante

This feels scummy. Gamma, you were looking for an 'over-the-top' reaction to the Ali flip...here it is.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald
Bad reason to SR me and bad reason to TR Fun Times.
I found my next vote.

Yep, I like this.

What's the question here? I was like one of the only people who actually gave a reason for that vote. Froggo voted too, so I find it interesting froggo is coming at us, like, I wrote yall a paragraph of my full thoughts on that situation, no one had questions at the time, yall just ran with it.

-Andante

Yeah, there is a difference. You were angling for that Ali wagon for a while without committing yourself to it, encouraging Penguin to put them at E-1 with both Enchant and NM around, when you were not voting Ali yourself.

369 and 378 pushing for the E-1 (as a side note; the pushing Penguin to vote, and then scum reading him and voting him for E-1-ing and then the unvote after the self-vote was really weird, not sure what it means yet but something was happening there) only after this pushing for the E-1 vote do you actually vote yourself in 427. The vote itself was poor as well because you used mech talk as reasoning when Ali was responding to Frog who actually started the discussion around mech talk.

I realize that this is completely wasted on the self-proclaimed meta hater but you really ought to listen to people who have played with us before:

Penguin, Gamma, Bella

You also mischaracterized my argument which I’m not extremely happy about, which was that Frog’s over the top reaction to Alianna flip didn’t align with their positioning on the wagon.

~Nancy

[Fun Times]

@frog, finding the use of language a little bit emotional: there must be better words than abusive And gaslit. Can we tone it down a little? Like, I'm not even parsing the conversation and these touch paper words aren't helpful

“Touch paper”?
I probably understand the meaning of this less due to the existence of the phrase “touch grass”

Emotive I guess. The content doesn't seem like frog actually wants to upset the hydra, but the words are going to do that. Frogs response to everything seems really overblown but I'm not sure if scum would make this much noise?

Seems pretty classic overwhelmed n00b scum to me

I could switch our vote back to Frog, I mean Jake. What is your read on Norwee?

~N

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Are you saying Penguin, Gamma and Bella are all town?

Are you also saying that meta is infallible and should supersede anything that happens in this game?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

With relation to Frog, your argument is invalid as Frog was not posting in game at the time of Ali being close to being elimmed.

So, yeah, he voted for Ali. But he voted when it was completely safe to do so and Ali was in no real danger of being elimmed. His gripe was with the way you backed Ali into a corner and every option she had was painted as being scummy.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Bella, I noticed that you didn't expand on 'everyone being scum' outside of Gamma and Somnus?

Would you mind running me through that?

[Bellaphant]

Has your read on Gamma changed?

I felt like our 1v1 was making the game intolerable so i backed off to give it more thought.

I want you to be town, but like… it’s like you feel 2 townie 2 b town.
How do you think people should read you? Do you think you behave an certain way as scum?

Are you normally this skeptical of people you're hard town-reading? I see "too scummy to be scum" thrown around on this site way too much, but I don't think I've ever heard of "too townie to be town".

@bbt There's a few things: how they approach enchant, I really liked the response about low hanging fruit, but also this. Do you disagree?

[Bellaphant]

Also, you mentioned my norwee vote: I don't see much town going on? Even when I've tried to engage with them. Even now I asked them about their reads and it's just miselim bait and ...pp, which is just a bit meh?

,

[Bellaphant]

Bella, I noticed that you didn't expand on 'everyone being scum' outside of Gamma and Somnus?

Would you mind running me through that?

There was lots of shit posting and arguing, I think I was upset by frogs language. I was tired.

[Fun Times]

Are you saying Penguin, Gamma and Bella are all town?

Are you also saying that meta is infallible and should supersede anything that happens in this game?

I know we’re town and they’re all correctly reading us. Probably?

I can’t speak for Andante but that’s my current take. She hasn’t said anything about Bella at all and strongly trs Gamma.

No, but since I know you’re read on us is wrong, that’s an extremely silly question to be asking me, unless you’re referring to something else?

~N

[Fun Times]

With relation to Frog, your argument is invalid as Frog was not posting in game at the time of Ali being close to being elimmed.

So, yeah, he voted for Ali. But he voted when it was completely safe to do so and Ali was in no real danger of being elimmed. His gripe was with the way you backed Ali into a corner and every option she had was painted as being scummy.

My God you are being such a hypocrite. I find this post kind of scummy considering your play on d1. Don’t even start on me with this garbage.

~N

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Bella, you town read Somnus before 330 so can you go back a little further please?

What do you like about how they approached Enchant? Can you quote post it?

What response regarding low hanging fruit? Again, can you quote it please?

Pedit - What do you think about Norwegian's 484 ?

Pedit again - I don't particularly like that answer Bella. I feel like you're hedging your reads this game and scum reading Norwegian is a very safe take for you to have right now.

@Fun Times - It's not a silly question to ask because you use meta as a defence for everything. So it's like 'forget what you think because x, y and z think we're town because meta so you should too!' which I don't really buy.

Pedit again - How is it hypocritical?

[Fun Times]

@BBT, I honestly really don’t gaf whether you buy it or not. It’s hypocritical because you put Alianna to e-1 after you didn’t like her response.

I’m also getting pretty fed up with slots who don’t exactly have their noses clean wrt to the Alianna wagon continuing to shit on us and put all of the blame for her miselim on to us, because it’s mainly slots who were voting/pushing Alianna like Frog and you who are primarily the ones doing that.

And hello, fucking newsflash, we only had one vote, so if you’re town, start looking at that maybe ffs.

~N

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Right, and I don't give a fuck how many times you use meta to defend yourself because it holds extremely little value.

You're conflating two issues. It is not hypocritical for me to accuse your slot of giving Alianna no way out because I did not do that.

I did not call Ali scum for not posting and then call her scum for posting. That was you. Therefore, it is not hypocritical for me, or Frog, to call you out on this.

I'm certainly not blaming your slot for the Ali elim. I have openly stated that she was extremely scummy towards the EoD1, however, your slot backed her into a corner where she had no way out no matter what answer she gave. That's scummy.

I have no idea what you're referring to with the one vote thing.

[Fun Times]

And when we flip town, who do you plan to blame then or you could just you know take some goddamned responsibility wrt to your role in that. I know, what a fucking ludicrous concept!?

Why is it mostly slots who were also pushing Alianna who also called her scummy who keep trying to pin it on us?

You are either lacking in total self-awareness or you’re scum because I have no other explanation for you’re continuing to be this obtuse.

~N

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm being obtuse? That's fucking rich. Are you not reading my posts?

I'll state it again, just to be clear.

YOUR SLOT GAVE ALIANNA NO WAY OUT. That is scummy.

I AM NOT BLAMING THE ENTIRE ELIM ON YOU. I AM SAYING THAT YOUR PUSH/VOTE WAS BAD AND IT LOOKS SCUMMY.

You have not, and continue not to, refute my point regarding your slot giving Alianna no way out because you know it is true and this is the main cause for my read.

Instead, you chose to try and conflate two issues so that you could call my hypocritical when in fact I am not being hypocritical whatsoever. Now you've resorted to calling me obtuse because, again, you simply have no answer to my reasoning for why I scum read you.

VOTE: Fun Times