Mini Normal 2279: VGSR - GAME OVER

[furtiveglance]

I should really open with "Man's town" more often then HUH

[furtiveglance]

I sus DeltaWave for this, and I think their delayed omgus style interaction with hoppip (83) also is mafia.

VOTE: DeltaWave

this is the kind of nonsensical thing that makes you read as town tbh

But seriously....this is kind of increasing my scumread on you. Why don't you talk about inutile, do you still think they're mafia?

[Frogsterking]

I had this one improv teacher who was pretty cool who taught us that the hardest lesson in improv is to learn to accept gifts.

[furtiveglance]

I had this one improv teacher who was pretty cool who taught us that the hardest lesson in improv is to learn to accept gifts.

Why are you scumreading Ghandhi? Bit of a non-sequitur I know but I don't want to get into your improv stuff.

[DeltaWave]

I sus DeltaWave for this, and I think their delayed omgus style interaction with hoppip (83) also is mafia.

VOTE: DeltaWave

this is the kind of nonsensical thing that makes you read as town tbh

But seriously....this is kind of increasing my scumread on you. Why don't you talk about inutile, do you still think they're mafia?

that's funny, because you're looking more like town to me the more we talk. I'd say there's a decent 75% chance that inutile is mafia. signal-to-noise ratio is very bad, trying too hard w/r/t townclaiming, etc. reminds me of how I used to play a mafioso when I was new, very frantic. the 25% exception is if this user just plays like this all the time but I do not know the relevant meta.

btw, someone (I forgot who - it's a page or so back) misunderstood why I was sussing inutile. it wasn't because mafia was plural or anything. it's that the whole "let's come together as town, I'm one of you, let's get those evil mafias" is a sus thing to say overall, especially early game. maybe later on when there are some flips or lots of evidence that's a decent thing to say but combined with everything else, inutile just seems like a mafioso on a sugar high.

[Frogsterking]

I had this one improv teacher who was pretty cool who taught us that the hardest lesson in improv is to learn to accept gifts.

Why are you scumreading Ghandhi? Bit of a non-sequitur I know but I don't want to get into your improv stuff.

It's okay, the improv stuff was for Asuka primarily rather than for you.

Once I saw Eir and Greeting both voted Ghandi I interpreted that as a sign that something was wrong. I reflected on why they may have done that. I realized that Ghandi is attempting to aggressively manipulate as many players as possible and that my initial Townread on them was naive. I believe Ghandi is either a manipulative Townie or a scum slot. In other words, I don't trust Ghandi regardless of their alignment, and I believe their alignment in this case may be scum, because even though it may be NAI for them to be manipulative, the way they're being manipulative in this game doesn't help them to collect AI information about other players.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Alright, caught up. Stuff following;

I actually think you've got me here and that everything you're saying in 53 is true.

I have three reasons mainly for not outing the scum slot yet:

• I want them to post more before they become alarmed so that it will be easier to look for their partners on later days.
  
  I want them to participate in my survey start and if I out my scum read on them first they probably won't want to do that.
  
  I want to give other players a chance to find them without me spoiling it.

I can tell you that I'm pretty sure I'm using spatial working memory to identify where to look rather than verbal working memory.

A few things here, first regarding 51;

1) Why would you trust a town reads reads so early into a game?
2) This feels like an attempt to pocket Ausuka

As for 58, this is a bad post in general. The first point about not wanting scum to know you're scum reading them - at this point about 5 players had posted anything of note, you were one of them and you town locked the other two (possibly three?) so there really weren't many players left who it could have been.

Other two points are fluff, especially third. Unless you're looking for potential mindmelds, but meh, not a fan of this at all.

VOTE: Furtive

Serious vote?

frankly most of it confuses me and it seems like lots of weird rationalizations. unless this user is normally on edge all the time, it looks bad

Just walk me through your thought process here? Most of the posts confuse you (why is that scummy?) but you understand enough to say that their rationalising is weird? You either understand or you don't, it can't be both. Can you show some of their weird rationalising and explain why it's weird?

Bonsoir i be Eiralox and im here for the synth apocalypse.

Frogster and Mohab are lock town, we won't be voting there.

VOTE: Nuclear Ghandi

this is scum. guillotine asap.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaGAk07qgf8

Well, you're seeing the game at the opposite end of the spectrum to me so we probably need to talk. All three of these are bad.

Mohab are lock town,

Explain please.

Happy to take the lock town read on yourself? Do you think you have been that townie?

Hi.

VOTE: Nuclear Gandhi

Serious vote?

Here are some reads of mine.

Consensus (or close to consensus) reads I have:

Frogsterking, Ausuka, Inutile, Hoppip Town

Reads that aren't consensus (I think):

Nuclear Ghandhi Town, Mohab sus, DeltaWave sus

i would rather this not continue to detract from us finding mafias

This has big "how do you do fellow kids" energy

VOTE: Inutile

I sus DeltaWave for this, and I think their delayed omgus style interaction with hoppip (83) also is mafia.

VOTE: DeltaWave

We're viewing the game almost identically, I like this. Just Frog being the outlier.

I'd also like Greeting to elaborate on their reads I guess

VOTE: furtiveglance

I like this best for now

Hi Ausuka, I think you're town and this is a bad vote. Change it please?

I sus DeltaWave for this, and I think their delayed omgus style interaction with hoppip (83) also is mafia.

VOTE: DeltaWave

this is the kind of nonsensical thing that makes you read as town tbh

This makes no sense at all and further intensifies my scum read on you.

Once I saw Eir and Greeting both voted Ghandi I interpreted that as a sign that something was wrong. I reflected on why they may have done that. I realized that Ghandi is attempting to aggressively manipulate as many players as possible and that my initial Townread on them was naive. I believe Ghandi is either a manipulative Townie or a scum slot. In other words, I don't trust Ghandi regardless of their alignment, and I believe their alignment in this case may be scum, because even though it may be NAI for them to be manipulative, the way they're being manipulative in this game doesn't help them to collect AI information about other players.

Why do Eir and Greeting influence your read here? They've barely done anything.

Can you show examples of Ghandi being manipulative please?

[hutmeil]

UNVOTE: Furtive

I had the same question as him for Frog which I TR him for.

[hutmeil]

Serious vote?

RVS Vote. I already unvoted.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Alright, some reads because reads are good;

Town - Hoppip, Inutile, Furtive, Ausuka
Maybe town - Ghandi
Null - Hutmeil, Greeting, Juice
Maybe scum - Eira, Mohab
Scum - Frog and Delta

VOTE: Delta

[Frogsterking]

Do you think you have been that townie?

Yes.

[Frogsterking]

Why do Eir and Greeting influence your read here? They've barely done anything.

Can you show examples of Ghandi being manipulative please?

As for the first question, I'm pretty confident they have reads that are significantly better than most players and I'm hoping to take advantage of this to get a bigger and more accurate town core set up. I'm applying meta knowledge, it has nothing to do with anything they've done in this game.

And for the second question, if you can't read Ghandi's iso and see the intent to manipulate then no I can't help you sorry.

[Frogsterking]

I'm already leaning Town on hutmeil and BBT.

[Frogsterking]

And for the second question, if you can't read Ghandi's iso and see the intent to manipulate then no I can't help you sorry.

I mean I'm willing to try, BBT. My condition is that I want you to choose something more specific from Ghandi's iso for me to talk about.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

But both Eir and Greeting have produced very little and you appear to just believe both are town and I'm wondering what's enabled you to get those reads?

I mean, you're saying he is being manipulative and I'm just asking you to show it? Why is that so difficult?

[DeltaWave]

Just walk me through your thought process here? Most of the posts confuse you (why is that scummy?) but you understand enough to say that their rationalising is weird? You either understand or you don't, it can't be both. Can you show some of their weird rationalising and explain why it's weird?

yeah sure. it's weird because it confuses me and it confuses me because it's weird. if I just started spouting gibberish you could call it weird even if it made no sense to you. not sure what your angle is here. e.g. the various walls of text inutile has posted.

This makes no sense at all and further intensifies my scum read on you.

call it a vibe. i expect mafia to act more like inutile and less like furtive

[Frogsterking]

But both Eir and Greeting have produced very little and you appear to just believe both are town and I'm wondering what's enabled you to get those reads?

I mean, you're saying he is being manipulative and I'm just asking you to show it? Why is that so difficult?

Wisdom bomb:

“Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces”

Matthew 7:6

Do what I said or I won't explain ANYTHING to you.

[DeltaWave]

Do what I said or I won't explain ANYTHING to you.

this is based, ngl

[furtiveglance]

Here are some reads of mine.

Consensus (or close to consensus) reads I have:

Frogsterking, Ausuka, Inutile, Hoppip Town

Reads that aren't consensus (I think):

Nuclear Ghandhi Town, Mohab sus, DeltaWave sus

i would rather this not continue to detract from us finding mafias

This has big "how do you do fellow kids" energy

VOTE: Inutile

I sus DeltaWave for this, and I think their delayed omgus style interaction with hoppip (83) also is mafia.

VOTE: DeltaWave

I'd like if you could elaborate on your townreads.

Can you elaborate on your thoughts on 83 as well? I really do not see what you're seeing there

I missed this intially because I posted right after. I townread you for the progression on inutile, it looked natural. Frogsterking is making a lot of reads early on which I usually find towny. Inutile and Hoppip both just seem to have an innocent kind of energy, I can see their approaches to the game being from a town perspective.

83 interested me because DeltaWave says Hoppip is acting sus after their interaction in 82, in which Hoppip said DeltaWave 'shaded Inutile for superficial reasons', which is what it looked like to me as well. Hence I called it a delayed omgus.

[furtiveglance]

I sus DeltaWave for this, and I think their delayed omgus style interaction with hoppip (83) also is mafia.

VOTE: DeltaWave

this is the kind of nonsensical thing that makes you read as town tbh

But seriously....this is kind of increasing my scumread on you. Why don't you talk about inutile, do you still think they're mafia?

that's funny, because you're looking more like town to me the more we talk. I'd say there's a decent 75% chance that inutile is mafia. signal-to-noise ratio is very bad, trying too hard w/r/t townclaiming, etc. reminds me of how I used to play a mafioso when I was new, very frantic. the 25% exception is if this user just plays like this all the time but I do not know the relevant meta.

btw, someone (I forgot who - it's a page or so back) misunderstood why I was sussing inutile. it wasn't because mafia was plural or anything. it's that the whole "let's come together as town, I'm one of you, let's get those evil mafias" is a sus thing to say overall, especially early game. maybe later on when there are some flips or lots of evidence that's a decent thing to say but combined with everything else, inutile just seems like a mafioso on a sugar high.

I just thought Inutile was excited about playing, that's the vibe I got.

[Greeting]

I'd also like Greeting to elaborate on their reads I guess

I have played with

Frogsterking

before. He likes to troll around, and, in my experience, tone-wise, he usually falls into the category "too scummy to be scum". It's a meta read from experience, because not knowing that, his ISO is very confusing.

Still, there is a more obvious sign pointing to him being town: I completely agree with his reads from 41, and he was the first one in the thread to make this observation actually. Some of his later reads are admittedly a bit hurried, and shaky (such as 137), but to be fair this overall sounds like town!

Frog

actively sorting rather than scum!

Frog

throwing random reads around. Maybe if he expands more on his reads, the townread will get more firm, but I'm happy to give him a townlean for now.

People don't tend to take him seriously because of the way he posts, but

Frogsterking

can be a pretty capable player if he wants to be.

[DeltaWave]

I just thought Inutile was excited about playing, that's the vibe I got.

Have you played with inutile before?

[furtiveglance]

Alright, caught up. Stuff following;

I actually think you've got me here and that everything you're saying in 53 is true.

I have three reasons mainly for not outing the scum slot yet:

• I want them to post more before they become alarmed so that it will be easier to look for their partners on later days.
  
  I want them to participate in my survey start and if I out my scum read on them first they probably won't want to do that.
  
  I want to give other players a chance to find them without me spoiling it.

I can tell you that I'm pretty sure I'm using spatial working memory to identify where to look rather than verbal working memory.

A few things here, first regarding 51;

1) Why would you trust a town reads reads so early into a game?
2) This feels like an attempt to pocket Ausuka

As for 58, this is a bad post in general. The first point about not wanting scum to know you're scum reading them - at this point about 5 players had posted anything of note, you were one of them and you town locked the other two (possibly three?) so there really weren't many players left who it could have been.

Other two points are fluff, especially third. Unless you're looking for potential mindmelds, but meh, not a fan of this at all.

VOTE: Furtive

Serious vote?

frankly most of it confuses me and it seems like lots of weird rationalizations. unless this user is normally on edge all the time, it looks bad

Just walk me through your thought process here? Most of the posts confuse you (why is that scummy?) but you understand enough to say that their rationalising is weird? You either understand or you don't, it can't be both. Can you show some of their weird rationalising and explain why it's weird?

Bonsoir i be Eiralox and im here for the synth apocalypse.

Frogster and Mohab are lock town, we won't be voting there.

VOTE: Nuclear Ghandi

this is scum. guillotine asap.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaGAk07qgf8

Well, you're seeing the game at the opposite end of the spectrum to me so we probably need to talk. All three of these are bad.

Mohab are lock town,

Explain please.

Happy to take the lock town read on yourself? Do you think you have been that townie?

Hi.

VOTE: Nuclear Gandhi

Serious vote?

Here are some reads of mine.

Consensus (or close to consensus) reads I have:

Frogsterking, Ausuka, Inutile, Hoppip Town

Reads that aren't consensus (I think):

Nuclear Ghandhi Town, Mohab sus, DeltaWave sus

i would rather this not continue to detract from us finding mafias

This has big "how do you do fellow kids" energy

VOTE: Inutile

I sus DeltaWave for this, and I think their delayed omgus style interaction with hoppip (83) also is mafia.

VOTE: DeltaWave

We're viewing the game almost identically, I like this. Just Frog being the outlier.

I'd also like Greeting to elaborate on their reads I guess

VOTE: furtiveglance

I like this best for now

Hi Ausuka, I think you're town and this is a bad vote. Change it please?

I sus DeltaWave for this, and I think their delayed omgus style interaction with hoppip (83) also is mafia.

VOTE: DeltaWave

this is the kind of nonsensical thing that makes you read as town tbh

This makes no sense at all and further intensifies my scum read on you.

Once I saw Eir and Greeting both voted Ghandi I interpreted that as a sign that something was wrong. I reflected on why they may have done that. I realized that Ghandi is attempting to aggressively manipulate as many players as possible and that my initial Townread on them was naive. I believe Ghandi is either a manipulative Townie or a scum slot. In other words, I don't trust Ghandi regardless of their alignment, and I believe their alignment in this case may be scum, because even though it may be NAI for them to be manipulative, the way they're being manipulative in this game doesn't help them to collect AI information about other players.

Why do Eir and Greeting influence your read here? They've barely done anything.

Can you show examples of Ghandi being manipulative please?

I am happy that BBT is now voting with me, but I don't townread this post at all. I've found that responding to other people's reads/comments and following up like this is one of the easiest things to do as mafia, because a lot of the time town players' reads/comments on the game don't make a lot of sense and you can look towny as scum by criticising that.

[furtiveglance]

UNVOTE: Furtive

I had the same question as him for Frog which I TR him for.

Did I ask Frogsterking a question that you wanted to ask him, or did you want to ask me a question?

[furtiveglance]

I just thought Inutile was excited about playing, that's the vibe I got.

Have you played with inutile before?

I've played with similar players.