Mini Normal 2279: VGSR - GAME OVER

[furtiveglance]

I said defense, not reads. im not keen on repeating myself.

Don't think BBT really hard defended Gandhi any more than I did either. Why do you want to make a point of distinguishing us when there is no real difference?

[Eiralox]

I said defense, not reads. im not keen on repeating myself.

Don't think BBT really hard defended Gandhi any more than I did either. Why do you want to make a point of distinguishing us when there is no real difference?

cos ur scum with gandhi and toffee isnt. this post proves it.

[Greeting]

@

a lot of players

It's Gandhi not Ghandi.

[Greeting]

Another thing - I don't get the refusal to share. This game is about co-operation. If you repeatedly refuse to talk you're transgressing, which may get you a sanction. And 3 sanctions is a full desadulation. And I might vote you for the simple crime of not talking.

Good. I second this sentiment.

This + his reads (113; I mean I kinda disagree with

hoppip

, but it's still a valid read from a town point of view - speaking of122) + the earlier quoted post makes me think

furtiveglance

is town.

[Ausuka]

Ok, you're right that delayed omgus isn't the right term. It's a knee-jerk reaction nonetheless, it felt to me that DeltaWave didn't want to allow Hoppip to put a bit of sus on them without getting the last word. As to whether or not Hoppip did put sus on DeltaWave, I would argue the answer is yes, whether intentional or otherwise. They said that DeltaWave 'looked bad' to them. So I read into that a bit, I thought DeltaWave looked worse from the whole interaction. I understand your issue with buzzwords like 'omgus', I have the same thing. But in this case I thought it was notable that DeltaWave didn't let it slide, they said they would respond later but made the point of saying that hoppip was being 'somewhat sus'

Do you disagree that town often suspect people who suspect them? I feel like you're pushing a scum!Delta possibility without really considering the other side of things. Like, there is indeed a world where Delta decided to scumread hoppip because he misinterpreted their post as a scumread and wanted to push back against it, but I don't see why you think it's likely, which I was hoping to get you to explain because I think it's a stretchy read.

[Ausuka]

Another thing - I don't get the refusal to share. This game is about co-operation. If you repeatedly refuse to talk you're transgressing, which may get you a sanction. And 3 sanctions is a full desadulation. And I might vote you for the simple crime of not talking.

Good. I second this sentiment.

This + his reads (113; I mean I kinda disagree with

hoppip

, but it's still a valid read from a town point of view - speaking of122) + the earlier quoted post makes me think

furtiveglance

is town.

I mean I think you and furtive are right about Eiralox, but it's not like it's a hard sentiment to fake.

[furtiveglance]

Ok, you're right that delayed omgus isn't the right term. It's a knee-jerk reaction nonetheless, it felt to me that DeltaWave didn't want to allow Hoppip to put a bit of sus on them without getting the last word. As to whether or not Hoppip did put sus on DeltaWave, I would argue the answer is yes, whether intentional or otherwise. They said that DeltaWave 'looked bad' to them. So I read into that a bit, I thought DeltaWave looked worse from the whole interaction. I understand your issue with buzzwords like 'omgus', I have the same thing. But in this case I thought it was notable that DeltaWave didn't let it slide, they said they would respond later but made the point of saying that hoppip was being 'somewhat sus'

Do you disagree that town often suspect people who suspect them? I feel like you're pushing a scum!Delta possibility without really considering the other side of things. Like, there is indeed a world where Delta decided to scumread hoppip because he misinterpreted their post as a scumread and wanted to push back against it, but I don't see why you think it's likely, which I was hoping to get you to explain because I think it's a stretchy read.

Again you make a valid point. I'm not locking in Deltawave as mafia though as you seem to imply, I'm just sussing + voting them. Fairly standard stuff in this kind of game. Yes, I could be charitable and play devil's advocate for every single player I give a read on, but it would be a longer and less interesting game, and I probably wouldn't be saying much either way, just going: "Could be town or mafia here, tough to say" about everyone. A read is a read, and I vote my scumreads. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I'm choosing to push this scum!Delta possibility, as you say, because I want them to be voted out, because I sus them. It all makes sense from my end.

[furtiveglance]

I said defense, not reads. im not keen on repeating myself.

Don't think BBT really hard defended Gandhi any more than I did either. Why do you want to make a point of distinguishing us when there is no real difference?

cos ur scum with gandhi and toffee isnt. this post proves it.

[furtiveglance]

How to put an image in a post

[Ausuka]

I'm aware, and I'm not as confident about this as I would be if you had made such a read later in the game. But I'm just saying it doesn't seem like your read on Delta came from a genuine thought process; if I'm mafia here and Delta is town I would probably want to vote Delta here, he feels like an easier push than other people who have been present so far. So when I feel like you decided he's scum and then made up the reasons it's concerning to me.

[Juice]

my first mini this decade VOTE: Gandhi

[furtiveglance]

I'm aware, and I'm not as confident about this as I would be if you had made such a read later in the game. But I'm just saying it doesn't seem like your read on Delta came from a genuine thought process; if I'm mafia here and Delta is town I would probably want to vote Delta here, he feels like an easier push than other people who have been present so far. So when I feel like you decided he's scum and then made up the reasons it's concerning to me.

I didn't do that, it was an authentic read I made. The term I used wasn't accurate, and I get the sense that the term I used is partly why you don't trust my read. As for your point about easy pushes, that's just speculation. At the time of its conception my scumread of DeltaWave was completely original, with BBT agreeing later. Besides, that argument assumes Town!Delta in its very logic.

[furtiveglance]

I'm aware, and I'm not as confident about this as I would be if you had made such a read later in the game. But I'm just saying it doesn't seem like your read on Delta came from a genuine thought process; if I'm mafia here and Delta is town I would probably want to vote Delta here, he feels like an easier push than other people who have been present so far. So when I feel like you decided he's scum and then made up the reasons it's concerning to me.

I didn't do that, it was an authentic read I made. The term I used wasn't accurate, and I get the sense that the term I used is partly why you don't trust my read. As for your point about easy pushes, that's just speculation. At the time of its conception my scumread of DeltaWave was completely original, with BBT agreeing later. Besides, that argument assumes Town!Delta in its very logic.

Edit: I see you acknowledged that it assumes Town!Delta

[Ausuka]

I acknowledge that, but I think even if other people hadn't really pushed there yet a scum player would likely realise there's room to push him without much pushack. I suppose it's not a particularly productive argument to be having at this stage.

[furtiveglance]

I acknowledge that, but I think even if other people hadn't really pushed there yet a scum player would likely realise there's room to push him without much pushack. I suppose it's not a particularly productive argument to be having at this stage.

I was about to respond that I don't have an internal 'is this player an easy mislim' filter, but I realised mid-thought that I actually do, and categorised Gandhi and Hoppip as such earlier this game. DeltaWave didn't seem that way to me.

[hoppip]

VOTE: BBT

Hoppip I like your username let's be bffs

Oops, I missed this earlier! I don't mind if you pocket me today, so sure!

thanks bestie

i would rather this not continue to detract from us finding mafias

This has big "how do you do fellow kids" energy

VOTE: Inutile

What do you think of the rest of its posts?

frankly most of it confuses me and it seems like lots of weird rationalizations. unless this user is normally on edge all the time, it looks bad

Hmm...I suppose that's fair. But I'm not so sure that "looks bad" is the same as "looks scummy." For instance, I think it looks bad that you're shading Inutile for superficial reasons. But do you think that's scummy?

Shading can only be done by wolves? Unless I've a misunderstanding of the word, I don't quite understand how you could not wolfread DeltaWave if you genuinely think they're shading someone.
This could be Chainsaw Defense done by you, but as that wiki says - Chainsawing is mostly likely if you and inutile are both wolves here, so it's not all that damning for you unless inutile flips red.

Hi Nuclear Ghandi! Can you read my post again? It looks like you missed the point of what I was saying.

Hoppip would you say you're trying to shift your playstyle on this alt? I'm not asking you to out your main or anything but I think it'd be useful to know

Not really, my old account didn't see that much use and I wanted a fresh aesthetic.

[hoppip]

Vote Count 1.2

Nuclear Gandhi (3): Eiralox, Greeting, Frogsterking
inutile (2): DeltaWave, Nuclear Gandhi
DeltaWave (2): furtiveglance, BlueBloodedToffee
furtiveglance (1): Ausuka

Not Voting: Juice, inutile, Mohab500, hoppip, hutmeil

With 13 alive it takes 7 votes to forcibly remove a player.

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-08-28 15:00:00)

This flavor slaps fr

Do what I said or I won't explain ANYTHING to you.

.........................................................

Spoiler: ???

Yes, daddy.

Not me thinking the same thing when I read that

[hoppip]

Spoiler:

Here are some reads of mine.

Consensus (or close to consensus) reads I have:

Frogsterking, Ausuka, Inutile, Hoppip Town

Reads that aren't consensus (I think):

Nuclear Ghandhi Town, Mohab sus, DeltaWave sus

i would rather this not continue to detract from us finding mafias

This has big "how do you do fellow kids" energy

VOTE: Inutile

I sus DeltaWave for this, and I think their delayed omgus style interaction with hoppip (83) also is mafia.

VOTE: DeltaWave

I'd like if you could elaborate on your townreads.

Can you elaborate on your thoughts on 83 as well? I really do not see what you're seeing there

I missed this intially because I posted right after. I townread you for the progression on inutile, it looked natural. Frogsterking is making a lot of reads early on which I usually find towny. Inutile and Hoppip both just seem to have an innocent kind of energy, I can see their approaches to the game being from a town perspective.

83 interested me because DeltaWave says Hoppip is acting sus after their interaction in 82, in which Hoppip said DeltaWave 'shaded Inutile for superficial reasons', which is what it looked like to me as well. Hence I called it a delayed omgus.

Ok, the townreads don't do a lot for me but to be fair it is very early in the game, so

I don't think hoppip was really calling Delta suspicious in post 82. He seemed to be saying that Delta's point is bad but he's not necessarily scum for it. In any case, I'm still not really sure what you mean and why you find it suspicious - it's only one post after so not really delayed, and anyway don't you think town could suspect someone who they're in some sort of confrontation with? The idea of 'delayed omgus' just feels off to me honestly.

Ok, you're right that delayed omgus isn't the right term. It's a knee-jerk reaction nonetheless, it felt to me that DeltaWave didn't want to allow Hoppip to put a bit of sus on them without getting the last word. As to whether or not Hoppip did put sus on DeltaWave, I would argue the answer is yes, whether intentional or otherwise. They said that DeltaWave 'looked bad' to them. So I read into that a bit, I thought DeltaWave looked worse from the whole interaction. I understand your issue with buzzwords like 'omgus', I have the same thing. But in this case I thought it was notable that DeltaWave didn't let it slide, they said they would respond later but made the point of saying that hoppip was being 'somewhat sus'.

Delta wanting to get the last word was interesting to me. Makes it seem like it was for the sake of their ego rather than agenda-driven. I get the feeling that they tend to suspect people based on their own perspective of how Mafia should be played instead of an individual player-to-player basis.

When I get some free time, I'll look through their past games and see if this is something that they can recreate in their scum games.

[Frogsterking]

I believe this might clear up how I'm reading some things: I believe Gandhi is manipulative because they're charismatic. I realize now I'm probably projecting a lot of other negative qualities that aren't there onto Gandhi because of my cynicism. For example I started to believe that the LHF or mislim bait qualities were a deception, and now I realize that it's unlikely Gandhi is faking those qualities.

That being said, I only partially agree with furtiveglance about the classification of Gandhi as mislim bait/LHF. I agree that those qualities are there, however, I also believe Gandhi shouldn't be classified that way because they're significantly more charismatic than those slots usually are, and that makes Gandhi more potentially dangerous as either alignment.

[Frogsterking]

@Ghandi

Spoiler:

What does this mean?

oh i was asking if you had/have a feeling because i might have had/currently have a feeling

but not alignment related, so! more a wondering aloud

Not sure what you're trying to say here.

was saying it felt like a sort of

like

"this is how to post at the beginning of the game" thing

like especially the first post is textbook "how to rvs"

Not sure what you're trying to say here.

though i am now kinda curious what else you could have thought i was trying to say there

(also to me i am simply saying it not trying to say but i understand that i am often unclear and am happy to clarify)

Ok, am I mafia?

i mean, you could be??

i wasn't saying that out of context i was thinking about the question you were asked about your opener and your response to it

Not sure what you're trying to say here.

though i am now kinda curious what else you could have thought i was trying to say there (also to me i am simply saying it not trying to say but i understand that i am often unclear and am happy to clarify)

I didn't really know. I mean, I think talking about my opener being textbook RVS seems somewhat nonsensical? It's the very start of the game, there aren't many options.

I don't really have a feeling about hoppip. Maybe I will later, idk.

Pedit: I'm trying to ask, like, what are you getting at with what you're saying? Were you just narrating my play?

you made very common opener, which you were aware of and said when asked

,

i guess i was thinking through the noteworthiness of nuclear gandhi's questioning of it and your response to it

shrug

i guess i don't really understand as it still kinda feels like you're just doing the engagement thing with me but that's more player indicative and not alignment indicative so

Not sure what you're trying to say here.

though i am now kinda curious what else you could have thought i was trying to say there (also to me i am simply saying it not trying to say but i understand that i am often unclear and am happy to clarify)

I didn't really know. I mean, I think talking about my opener being textbook RVS seems somewhat nonsensical? It's the very start of the game, there aren't many options.

I don't really have a feeling about hoppip. Maybe I will later, idk.

Pedit: I'm trying to ask, like, what are you getting at with what you're saying? Were you just narrating my play?

you made very common opener, which you were aware of and said when asked, i guess i was thinking through the noteworthiness of nuclear gandhi's questioning of it and your response to it

shrug

i guess i don't really understand as it still kinda feels like you're just doing the engagement thing with me but that's more player indicative and not alignment indicative so

like it's not like i thought

"and now i will narrate ausuka's play"

but if you want to describe my posting that way you probable can it's not not applicable ya know

Let me colorize how I see their posts (look in your spoiler in the quote of this post):

Neutral

- Just neutral commentary.

Active

- Aggressive, Confrontational, "Fighting" as you called it. Lacking the word for it, but simply put the opposite of Defensive.

Defensive

- Trying to defuse the situation (attention away from them)

Neutral/Defensive

Neutral/Active

I see most of what you quoted bordering between neutral commentary and trying to defuse the situation in a "nothing to see here" sense.
I sincerely don't see the "fighting" that you see in the inutile's posts which you quoted.
We can agree to disagree, but perhaps you can color the same way as I did the same posts you quoted, or alternatively describe in your own words why the quotes you posted felt like "fighting" to you? We see it so opposite, clearly one has to be wrong.

This argument is semantic. I don't care how you qualify inutile's words. Their willingness to engage in a dialogue with Ausuka, whatever you want to call it, is what I'm Townreading them for. They obviously didn't want to defuse the situation that much because they remained in the thread responding to Ausuka. If they wanted to disappear they could have just lurked out.

I also have a limited tolerance for posts like 112 because they indicate that you're more concerned with micromanaging your self image than you are with correctly identifying who is Town and who is scum.

[Frogsterking]

@furtiveglance

I should have @ 193 to you as well for clarity's sake, I had you and your Gandhi read in mind when I wrote it.

I also wanted to say that the reason BBT is more aggressive than you about the Ghandi read is because of this interaction:

Can you show examples of Ghandi being manipulative please?

I mean, you're saying he is being manipulative and I'm just asking you to show it? Why is that so difficult?

BBT seems more reckless about how they are connecting themselves with the Gandhi slot. The point Eir was making is that you're taking a more conscientious approach with your Gandhi read. I think it's NAI for you because you're taking a more conscientious approach to a lot of things, and at the same time I can see the solving intent behind Eir's read and I also agree that there is danger of townreading Gandhi too quickly.

[Greeting]

[quote="In

Do what I said or I won't explain ANYTHING to you.

.........................................................

Spoiler: ???

Yes, daddy.

Not me thinking the same thing when I read that

Of all the posts I made this game, this is the one you found the most interesting?

[Greeting]

I see a lot of talk about

DeltaWave

and they're definitely in the PoE for me. The ISO is quite shallow, when at this point there's more than enough content to make deeper reads. Not going to lie,

intuile

is probably my strongest townlean for now, and the fact that this is the player

DeltaWave

has been so focused in this game makes him look worse in my eyes.

I suppose I agree with him that

hoppip

is sus, and

Ausuka

is town, but my gut tells me that something's not right here.

i'm actually interested in hearing from the sideliners since this has mostly been the same few active people talking

I'd be actually very much interested in hearing more from you.

[inutile]

hmm let's see let's see let us see

[inutile]

But perhaps you can explain to me why would the thought "how much I tried to appeared towny?" pop in a townies thought process

it didn't 'pop into my thought process' tho?? i was simply responding to deltawave saying they thought i might have been trying too hard to look town