Open 861: The Turing Test [game over]

[GuiltyLion]

my first thought seeing this test is that Bell is (correctly scumread) scum and scumteam just wanted to get him out so he wouldn't have to keep masking associatives on future tests, and they want to also just remove furtive who was widely townread and not seemingly likely to be a viable miselim

I'm gonna try not to drink the wine this time, fire you were right and I felt like a bit of a fool seeing that Dann flip - my apologies to both you and Dann

I still scumread Rat/Roden otherwise. I shouldn't confbias but tbh I could see a kuti/Bell/Roden/Rat team making that Dann-kuti test and hoping we fuck it up, which we did. Rat kinda easily let me talk them onto Dann and I haven't checked this to confirm yet but it felt like Roden didn't vote kuti until Dann clearly had more momentum. If I'm wrong on one of them I could see a world with Vulture scum I guess, but less confident on a SR there.

that's my first take

[Vivax]

Meow me a river.

Also, that is the cutest avatar. I cannot tel if that is an actual cat or a doll.

Thank you, it's a cute cat.

What is your experience with the players in this player list

I've played with Fire, Dann, Furtive, Roden, Guilty, Radicalrat (

but it always feels like I'm playing adjacent to them

).

lolll

[Vivax]

Meow me a river.

Also, that is the cutest avatar. I cannot tel if that is an actual cat or a doll.

Thank you, it's a cute cat.

What is your experience with the players in this player list

I've played with Fire, Dann, Furtive, Roden, Guilty, Radicalrat

(but it always feels like I'm playing adjacent to them)

.
And I completely forgot if I played with Aris before or if I just chatted with them in a dead thread once.

I think getting a lay of the land is kind of both.

@Fire, same. Mostly I play this game to understand people. Speaking of which.
Are you scum?

I feel that. There are just some players that I never really interact with even across multiple games.

It's this for me. It's just fluff, designed to pocket Bell.

Is this townie?

[Vivax]

At the very least that interaction looks very W/V in regards to Roden/Furtive

So furtive is probs one of the goodies, though they don't always look the part.

VOTE: Bell

for now

[Loki Dokie]

vote count 1.final

with 13 votes in play, it took 7 to make a decision. day 1 ended.

yeet

KittyTacky [7]:

Bell, Aristeia, GuiltyLion,

Dannflor

, Vulture, Vivax, fireisredsir

[HAMMER]

Vivax [5]:

Radical Rat, furtiveglance,

kutiplz, KittyTacky

, Roden

not voting [1]:

Loki Dokie

mod notes

~ i was literally about to sleep, why do you do this to me

So this is really interesting. Since I don’t tr Roden, I think it’s extremely unlikely more than 3 scum on Vivax, so it likely means 2 scum were bussing like Dann said.

Which most likely would point to Bell/Vulture if my current reads are right. It’s extremely unlikely all of the scum were on Vivax and not one on Kitty.

I think it’s pretty damned clear that scum is pairing the towniest scumslots with lesser tr townies, so it makes me think from this, that it’s highly unlikely furtive’s scum here.

I think scum needed to get Dann out of the way, not just because he was strong town but for his reads like I said. Otherwise why aren’t any of the scummier slots being paired if they’re town? I think scum knows exactly what they’re doing here.

So maybe the salient question ought to be, who do you read as town on Vivax wagon? If we’re going to assume that the entire scumteam wasn’t on Vivax - extremely likely - furtive’s very likely spewed town by this.

[Vivax]

vote count 1.final

with 13 votes in play, it took 7 to make a decision. day 1 ended.

yeet

KittyTacky [7]:

Bell, Aristeia, GuiltyLion,

Dannflor

, Vulture, Vivax, fireisredsir

[HAMMER]

Vivax [5]:

Radical Rat, furtiveglance,

kutiplz, KittyTacky

, Roden

not voting [1]:

Loki Dokie

mod notes

~ i was literally about to sleep, why do you do this to me

So this is really interesting. Since I don’t tr Roden, I think it’s extremely unlikely more than 3 scum on Vivax, so it likely means 2 scum were bussing like Dann said.

Which most likely would point to Bell/Vulture if my current reads are right. It’s extremely unlikely all of the scum were on Vivax and not one on Kitty.

I think it’s pretty damned clear that scum is pairing the towniest scumslots with lesser tr townies, so it makes me think from this, that it’s highly unlikely furtive’s scum here.

I think scum needed to get Dann out of the way, not just because he was strong town but for his reads like I said. Otherwise why aren’t any of the scummier slots being paired if they’re town? I think scum knows exactly what they’re doing here.

So maybe the salient question ought to be, who do you read as town on Vivax wagon? If we’re going to assume that the entire scumteam wasn’t on Vivax - extremely likely - furtive’s very likely spewed town by this.

That depends on your beliefs, nobody expects scum to go all-in on a single wagon, but it's not impossible there since KT depended on it

[Loki Dokie]

At any rate, furtive is objectively the towniest slot on Vivax, so I feel extremely confident that I’m right.

[Vivax]

[quote="In post 1406, Loki Dokie"][/quote]

I don't necessarily disagree, though the Dannflor elimination was objectively bad.
It would be fallacious for me to expect every town to repeat that mistake, however

[Loki Dokie]

vote count 1.final

with 13 votes in play, it took 7 to make a decision. day 1 ended.

yeet

KittyTacky [7]:

Bell, Aristeia, GuiltyLion,

Dannflor

, Vulture, Vivax, fireisredsir

[HAMMER]

Vivax [5]:

Radical Rat, furtiveglance,

kutiplz, KittyTacky

, Roden

not voting [1]:

Loki Dokie

mod notes

~ i was literally about to sleep, why do you do this to me

So this is really interesting. Since I don’t tr Roden, I think it’s extremely unlikely more than 3 scum on Vivax, so it likely means 2 scum were bussing like Dann said.

Which most likely would point to Bell/Vulture if my current reads are right. It’s extremely unlikely all of the scum were on Vivax and not one on Kitty.

I think it’s pretty damned clear that scum is pairing the towniest scumslots with lesser tr townies, so it makes me think from this, that it’s highly unlikely furtive’s scum here.

I think scum needed to get Dann out of the way, not just because he was strong town but for his reads like I said. Otherwise why aren’t any of the scummier slots being paired if they’re town? I think scum knows exactly what they’re doing here.

So maybe the salient question ought to be, who do you read as town on Vivax wagon? If we’re going to assume that the entire scumteam wasn’t on Vivax - extremely likely - furtive’s very likely spewed town by this.

That depends on your beliefs, nobody expects scum to go all-in on a single wagon, but it's not impossible there since KT depended on it

Sure but in this kind of game, I find it highly unlikely that the entire scumteam piled on you. Think of it this way, let’s say hypothetically furtive does wind up flipping scum here, then we’d be left with RR and Roden on that wagon, so it would be absolutely horrible play for scum to do this. Far better to concede the point and hope that your wagon succeeds.

Also you had Ari pushing so extremely hard for that Kitty lim, scum needed to be on it. Remember Dann said that scum probably sacrificed Kitty and they whacked him first chance they got. Maybe they really needed him out of the way because his reads and assessment of the gamestate were bang on? Ari too but she was much more widely tr than Dann. This also makes Roden look particularly suss in my eyes because he would absolutely know that I’d have trouble getting over that vote from Dann. There’s really no one I’m particularly suss on that I think could know that. Bell might but idk but for sure Roden would.

[Radical Rat]

I can confirm that not all of us on the Vivax wagon were scum

I'm also actually pretty certain on Vivax being Town now, which I was not expecting to be this game at all.

Vulture... I was obviously wrong about their motivations, but seeing as that WAS what settled my mind on Dann... If they are scum, the scheme worked

[Radical Rat]

I don't really know who the last scum would be though. Potentially Roden?

[Loki Dokie]

Town ish vibes:

GuiltyLion: my first tr of the game, very much like they were in our previous games, just overall a gut and soul read
Loki: feeling good about this slot, their solving is logical (like how they are doing it in the thread), I like the effort to look into Vivax old game. In p#602
Greetign: weakest of the three, I feel like her emotions have been genuine. Dunno how to feel about the buddying
Kitty: weakest of them all, a town lean, their tone is genuine and maybe im weak to it.

Scummy vibes:
Dann: I feel like they kinda fell off since the beginning (I know I'm being a hypocrite)
Ari: I dunno how to feel about them trying to buddy everyone and her post have been agenda driven
Vivax: his tone and what not is not what I'm used to. He doesn't feel towny because he's missing his trademark tinfoil. I am sus of him
VOTE: vivax

I don't necessarily disagree, though the Dannflor elimination was objectively bad.
It would be fallacious for me to expect every town to repeat that mistake, however

Yeah, it’s the fact that none of the pairings were slots I’d be particularly interested in limming this early. so why wouldn’t scum throw in scummier town slots into the mix?

Other than Roden, I’m thinking one of Vulture/RR. Probably Vulture based off this post. One scum, Kitty shades Vulture/Greeting/Don slot and the other Kuti, trs them.

[Loki Dokie]

Vivax almost seems... too scummy to be scum

People who seem too scummy to be scum are almost always just scum who played badly.

I really wish I had caught this, pretty clearly anti-partnery.

[Vivax]

I just think that wifom wise making this pairing for mafia after yeeting (to me) the obvious town of the pair Dann feels suggestive to me to induce thinking that Bell isn't the correct elim here
But it's wifom and it might fail, so I rather go off the Roden read and realize he talked to furtive as if he was town.

[Loki Dokie]

the wagon is on a slot getting replaced, they are effectively dead votes

The slot's scummy actions are not undone, we should wait for a replacement though.

ok I am feeling good about a Dann TR currently. I am not sure if I should be in the business of sharing every townread this game but I do like working with Dann so I'm gonna throw that one out there

I still kinda gut scumread everything fire is posting, I don't like that they unvoted Loki and didn't vote anywhere else.

I also don't like Rat describing my case as "nitpicking" in 175 - calling out the logical slip up is arguably a reach, like I understand that particular point is not necessarily AI, but the overall argument I was making was that I felt fire's TR on Ari was premeditated, which is definitely a cause for concern. Also, I want to clarify my understanding of that post in general - RR, are you using "human"/"AI" as stand-ins for "town"/"mafia", or are you just making a joke about the flavor and Bell's comment as opposed to making a read on me?

I feel like I know who Loki is and I have a lot of trouble with his playstyle because he can not fathom or accept any suspicion or scrutiny on him in any circumstances, but so far I am fine with shelving him as town for now and judging him based off his read accuracy when we get some flips - further if fire is scum then I def think Loki's spewed town by their interaction

Other thing I found odd:

the wagon is on a slot getting replaced, they are effectively dead votes

The slot's scummy actions are not undone, we should wait for a replacement though.

a) What are DonEmpire's scummy actions, in your own words?
b) Why are you not voting the slot if this is how you feel? Better yet, why are you not voting anybody?

I'm actually nullreading the slot, I just explained why they aren't being unvoted.

I don't understand the Roden wagon. He's got three posts, and none of them strike me as particularly scummy.

Yeah same. Roden is very null to me.

This doesn’t look great for Vulture, Kitty going from a sr to a null read and Roden is yet another null read. I think I’m probably right on this solve, especially liking RR’s posting today.

[Vivax]

You do realize that no one in this game is a mindreader right.

Your analysis doesn’t mean a lot unless you present why and I’ve like mortally offended you by asking to see why. I don’t get it lol.

Aw not this again after all I've went through to prove otherwise, sometimes more sometimes less
I shouldn't have an incentive to convince you otherwise
But neurologically, the causality of electric potentials being given specific qualia isn't explainable from the assumption that there isn't something undetectable by technical means they correlate with
This isn't even a novelty in the field

Back on topic:
Roden, Bell, you being the last ones here presumably

[Roden]

I'm just struggling to figure out how to participate without inducing WIFOM by just existing

I feel like I'm in a weird spot where anything I say is going to get interpreted as being way more layered than it actually is. Some of the votes on Dann were made because of a pre-flipped read on me and looking too deeply into my town read on him. Idk, I don't want to ruin the game by centralizing who to vote for over things that are in my ISO.

[Vivax]

Can‘t figure out for shizzles who GL and Fire could be alts of. Likable verbosity but don‘t give me vibes of anyone I‘ve played with before.
Sorry Roden, I know being in the reads ‚pit‘ sucks
But this playerbase seems to be quite strong and I don‘t think I could ever get through this as mafia myself

[Loki Dokie]

I’ve been thinking some more about the Bell - Kuti/Roden - Kuti votes and their timing.

Bell votes early but expresses plenty of doubt on Dann - doesn’t really make that sense if you’re undecided right? And Roden - who had a confident tr on Dann votes after GL puts him to e-1.

So Bell does look kind of townie doing that but logically it makes no sense. It reads to me like scum who wants to look good by have their correct vote in early but doesn’t exactly encourage you to confidently sheep that vote due to the extremely indecisive way he expressed it.

Contrast those two votes with Vivax and fire who both voted early enough + had confident reads on Dann and also strongly advocated for him.

Both Bell and Roden wanted towncred but didn’t want you to sheep those reads. Roden waited so long because had he voted early, all town probably would have piled on Kuti.

[Loki Dokie]

I'm just struggling to figure out how to participate without inducing WIFOM by just existing

I feel like I'm in a weird spot where anything I say is going to get interpreted as being way more layered than it actually is. Some of the votes on Dann were made because of a pre-flipped read on me and looking too deeply into my town read on him. Idk, I don't want to ruin the game by centralizing who to vote for over things that are in my ISO.

So your argument is that you waited to vote Kuti once GL had already put him to e-1 not to wifom scum? Your vote did absolutely nothing to help Dann atp because had I voted Kuti, it would have been a tie and the earlier tie always wins, so I think for that to have really made any sense, you wouldn’t have waited until it was extremely likely too late to save him.

[Loki Dokie]

You do realize that no one in this game is a mindreader right. Your analysis doesn’t mean a lot unless you present why and I’ve like mortally offended you by asking to see why. I don’t get it lol.

Personality things tho I guess.

I can assure you Vulture, I have absolutely nothing personally against you, I just don’t tr you.

[Loki Dokie]

Apologies.

VOTE: Kutplz

Ultimately I’m incredibly conflicted on Dann, and I don’t want to embarrass myself by misreading him. Made town posts. Made scum posts. I don’t eee much like an agenda, even though his pushes felt agendey he *sort of* kept his way of treating people the same. It’s not great but he seems to have used his yardstick about the same for everyone based on how they played. It’s terrible because it feels less like a read than watching someone play off a policy. But at least he had a policy. Inconsistency isn’t a scum tell, nor is consistency.
I’m not satisfied, but life happens.

Does this make a lot of sense as an early vote? Why would town!Bell make this vote so early albeit with all of these reservations?

[Loki Dokie]

I'm just struggling to figure out how to participate without inducing WIFOM by just existing

I feel like I'm in a weird spot where anything I say is going to get interpreted as being way more layered than it actually is. Some of the votes on Dann were made because of a pre-flipped read on me and looking too deeply into my town read on him. Idk, I don't want to ruin the game by centralizing who to vote for over things that are in my ISO.

So your argument is that you waited to vote Kuti once GL had already put THEM to e-1 not to wifom scum? Your vote did absolutely nothing to help Dann atp because had I voted Kuti, it would have been a tie and the earlier tie always wins, so I think for that to have really made any sense, you wouldn’t have waited until it was extremely likely too late to save him.

THEM, THEM, THEM

[Loki Dokie]

Fuck me, why do I keep doing this? I apologize to you Kuti once again. I’m so extremely sorry.

[Loki Dokie]

vote count 2.final

with 10 votes in play, it took 6 to make a decision. day 2 ended.

yeet

Dannflor [6]:

Radical Rat, furtiveglance, Vulture, Aristeia, GuiltyLion, Loki Dokie

[HAMMER]

kutiplz [4]:

Vivax, Bell, fireisredsir, Roden

not voting [0]:

mod notes

~ this is a mod note.