Mini Normal 2279: VGSR - GAME OVER

[Frogsterking]

Like hmm who could this post about several people making teamsolves in the thread be about??? Maybe the people who have been doing that repetitively, in this thread, open for everyone to read

Do you think it's fake confusion? Or do you think they're playing dumb?

I thought last night this was likely because I couldn't understand Frog's thought process at all. Right now I think we view the game so differently that this line of reasoning is probably useless.

Yes and it may get better over time, for example:

Juice is supreme limbait. I don't have any strong evidence that they're town (I suppose play like this is somewhat +town just because if they were scum their partners would probably bully them into not doing this?) but I do agree that pushes there raise eyebrows to some extent.

This is how I'm viewing the Juice slot as well. I call them a red herring, like the rude janitor at the beginning of a Scooby Doo episode. They rarely are the actual culprit.

[Eiralox]

delta/hoppip isn't a team solve to me, but a blatant pattern that i feel delta is trying very hard to veer past for whatever reason. if i felt town on either slot I woulda let it slide, but I don't.

I'm going to be honest, I don't see the Delta read - I don't agree that scum are more likely to respond defensively and aggressively in the way he did to you, and I think Delta is likely to be town here

That said I don't really suspect you either - you feel like you have conviction and I sort of understand where your Delta read comes from at least. It shows a level of solving that experienced scum can definitely fake but I think is probably +town for you here.

I don't think hoppip is a bad place to look though, his posting hasn't really whelmed me and the push on Delta felt slightly slimy in the sense that "if he was town he would have brought up his meta in response to my post" doesn't feel like a real thought? Does anyone else, like, understand this line of reasoning? If people do it might just be a me thing, but otherwise I don't like the read

this is a very good post. town points for ausuka. i'll admit that hoppip seems worse to me rn than delta, but i'm still not gonna push either of them as an option for now. tbh thus far the only real pings i've gotten are from gandhi and furtive and meh furtive i'm like still 50/50 on.

[Nuclear Gandhi]

First 2 pages

- I guess what looked like inutile narrating Ausuka's play but then trying to

diffuse the situation

when asked about why, it was really him thinking out loud. I don't blame myself for finding it sus earlier, never seen that (usually when someone thinks out loud it's not so.. empty). I'm willing to mark that as useful engagement by inutile.
- Ausuka's read in 42 https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13480278 is reasonable, for the above.
- Frog's read in 41 https://forum.mafiascum.net/memberlist. ... le&u=16233 also, though I'm surprised he could see everything so clearly.
- 45s https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13480284

"? it could easily be explained as coming from either mafia or town, why would i only consider the scumread aspect of it?"

by inutei feels too defensive intially. But on a 2nd thought, it's again him describing his playstyle so whatever. Currently I want inutei alive for now; I'm very confident that their playstyle makes their slot very very solvable in the long run so it's benefitial to give them the benefit of doubt.
- 47 https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13480293 by Frog is just.. deliberately aggrevating with unncessary unhelpful demeaning comment? Why?
Also of note: given that me, inutile, ausuka and Frog have been the only players who posted thus far, and Frog called me Town in 48 and 51 while calling inutile and ausuka locktown in 47 - it makes Frog's claim of there being a solvable wolf slot already be his own slot?

page 3

- 58 https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13480346 by Frog makes no sense given the above, since he must be talking about himself?
- While I can see what DeltaWave means in 67 https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13480602 ; I'm not as convinced it's that AI for inutile. A decent early sus though, but a bit weak to follow especially when it's on a self resolving slot like inutile seems to be.
- I can agree with hoppip's 68 https://forum.mafiascum.net/memberlist. ... le&u=36738 to an extent. I mean, I no longer think it's as bad looking for inutei as I originally thought but I wouldn't call them Town either like hoppip does.
- inutile, if you read this, what did you mean by "traction" in 70? https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13480622
- 72 https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13480625 by DeltaWave is interesting in the sense that I don't think a player who hasn't played since 2015, or whenever, would be so directly shade throwy and so early if they were wolf? It's so "in your face" WIM energy, though I'm not sure. This read is entirely based on the idea that someone who hasn't played so long wouldn't be so fearless as Mafia, but I don't know what type of person they are. Good enough for a Day1 read as far as I'm concerned though.
- Really wish inutile in 74 https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13480627 didn't leave his comment to implications and instead said what they think. What's the point other than off hand shade throwing? If you throw shades at least don't leave them to implications and say what you mean.

page 4

- 76 https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13480629 Can I just say that, yet again, this makes way more sense coming from a Town!DeltaWave simply given the 7 years of not playing? I hate this read because without that fact, I'd call this shade throwing otherwise.
- 79 https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13480637 by DeltaWave, again, that's a fair view tbh.
- hoppip, if you read this, what's the difference between "looks bad" and "looks scummy"? https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13480649 ; Though I can now see how "shading Inutile for superficial reasons" isn't necessarily scummy, as I got the same view on this re-read. But honestly, without that

hasn't played for 7 years

thing, I could usually never see that as not scummy.
- inutile, you're completely right in 88 https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13480742 ; I'd like to apologize for that.
- due to 90 https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13480744 I've the feeling that inutile is the type of person who's super easy to get voted out if you're Mafia, all you need is to sus them and their focus will be limited to defending themselves, which can only lead to their overall game contribution to look nothing but scummy. I think we should give inutile some breathing room. Again, I'm super certain that slot is easily solvable in the long run.
- At this point in game inutile is/was such a low hanging fruit, that I think 95 https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13480777 is a good look for Ausuka. Not by much, because multiple people called inutile town by this point. But I do believe a inutile miselim would had been an easy path for a wolf!Ausuka.
- I don't like 99 https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13480784 by Frog tbh. Because I don't see why would you townread someone for trying to communicate something that you yourself don't understand what it is. Because "it seemed important to them"? This may be a wild guess, but I believe it's possible for wolves to also have some importance in explaining and defending themselves. This is a bad townread reasoning tbh.


Alright, I know I only got 4 pages in - but I honestly feel good about my progress. I'm starting to tell slots apart from each other and have some view on how the game is going, so I think it'll be much easier for me the next time I come in. Nevertheless I'll need to up my activity a bit to be left behind.
VOTE: Frogsterking I got nothing better tbh; simply put the only slot who gave me some negative vibes on this re-read catchup.

Be back tommorow

[Frogsterking]

scums are time travelers because they know the solution to the mystery so they are more likely to play in the future rather than the present and often have a plan for how they hope or think things will play out or potentially play out whereas towns are just weighing very most likely mafia right now

like you'll often see this present itself with players saying 'i am going to do this' or 'hold me to this' because they have an expectation of themselves

which isn't an only comes from mafia thing but more often than random would indicate in my experience

...

this is super interesting. I've made this Tell before as scum though I was also lurking while I did it. I think that's the AI difference between how I procrastinate

.

This is my takeaway here on what Gandhi is doing.

[furtiveglance]

I was out today. I'll be able to post more this time tomorrow. In short, Deltawave has been giving some good stuff and I quite like it, enough to unvote. I think Eiralox looks worse from their back and forth and I think the "I faked a read to test reactions" is easily faked and not amazing townplay in any case. BBT is a bit sus but not enough to vote yet. I'll vote Juice because they laughed about being sussed for RVS or something and it was weird.

VOTE: Juice

I think this post is scummy - part of it is just that it feels a bit slimy? But I'm particular I don't get the eiralox read and I think the push on Juice is opportunistic and unlikely to lead to much while being a seemingly safe route for scum - I think town would be more likely to expand on the BBT read or push Eiralox harder since it's more likely to generate AI content at this stage

You don't think Juice can defend themself?

[furtiveglance]

I'm starting to think furtive is likelier scum than delta? esp. if, as my previous redundant now instated faux maneuver averred, furtive and gandhi are are scum together:

Agreeing with town! Delta and shifting the vote to juice is a great possible way to indirectly divert from the gandhi wagon(while furtive also shades eira, who started that wagon).

So I mean........ Delta is wrong, delta is defensive as fuck, delta is misrepping me bad, delta was very irritating and dodgy and illogical last night but, and meh i havent done the iso shtick cos I got a life, I can feel all those irregularities coming from town. Furtive? Rats but that slot just scumpings me on an instinct level, even tho they also feel green at the same time? paradox? maybe. But I think RE: Juice delta talking and furtive voting convinces me that scum is likelier in furtive than delta..... maybe........ too early for me. imma watch these two, something's whack.

Hoppip voting Delta is a very very interesting development.................. i'll post when I post/

Maybe we're not gonna get on this game, that's fine. I'm not sure if getting into it with you is the best use of my posts this game.

[Ausuka]

I was out today. I'll be able to post more this time tomorrow. In short, Deltawave has been giving some good stuff and I quite like it, enough to unvote. I think Eiralox looks worse from their back and forth and I think the "I faked a read to test reactions" is easily faked and not amazing townplay in any case. BBT is a bit sus but not enough to vote yet. I'll vote Juice because they laughed about being sussed for RVS or something and it was weird.

VOTE: Juice

I think this post is scummy - part of it is just that it feels a bit slimy? But I'm particular I don't get the eiralox read and I think the push on Juice is opportunistic and unlikely to lead to much while being a seemingly safe route for scum - I think town would be more likely to expand on the BBT read or push Eiralox harder since it's more likely to generate AI content at this stage

You don't think Juice can defend themself?

I feel like this was meant to be a sarcastic comment to imply I'm defending Juice when I shouldn't be but I unironically think this

[Ausuka]

Well maybe it's a matter of won't rather than can't but I think I'm broadly correct that Juice is an extremely easy target here

[Frogsterking]

I'm not sure if getting into it with you is the best use of my posts this game.

I'd rather you both didn't I'm pretty sure it's TvT.

[furtiveglance]

I was out today. I'll be able to post more this time tomorrow. In short, Deltawave has been giving some good stuff and I quite like it, enough to unvote. I think Eiralox looks worse from their back and forth and I think the "I faked a read to test reactions" is easily faked and not amazing townplay in any case. BBT is a bit sus but not enough to vote yet. I'll vote Juice because they laughed about being sussed for RVS or something and it was weird.

VOTE: Juice

I think this post is scummy - part of it is just that it feels a bit slimy? But I'm particular I don't get the eiralox read and I think the push on Juice is opportunistic and unlikely to lead to much while being a seemingly safe route for scum - I think town would be more likely to expand on the BBT read or push Eiralox harder since it's more likely to generate AI content at this stage

You don't think Juice can defend themself?

I feel like this was meant to be a sarcastic comment to imply I'm defending Juice when I shouldn't be but I unironically think this

I'm feeling a little disillusioned about this - if you list the criteria that make someone sus, and then list the criteria that make someone 'an easy target' (or at least the popular idea of one) - I think it's the same list, isn't it?

[Ausuka]

I disagree. I mean, it's certainly reasonable to not townread Juice, but I think having them as your top scumread this early is just safe and boring. They are borderline unreadable at this stage. Later we might have more content, a new player in the slot, whatever.

[DeltaWave]

I just got done driving all day. I'm going to catch up in the morning

[furtiveglance]

I disagree. I mean, it's certainly reasonable to not townread Juice, but I think having them as your top scumread this early is just safe and boring. They are borderline unreadable at this stage. Later we might have more content, a new player in the slot, whatever.

I'm tired of being told some players are too scummy to be pushed. I want to reward players who try.

[Ausuka]

I disagree. I mean, it's certainly reasonable to not townread Juice, but I think having them as your top scumread this early is just safe and boring. They are borderline unreadable at this stage. Later we might have more content, a new player in the slot, whatever.

I'm tired of being told some players are too scummy to be pushed. I want to reward players who try.

Ok, that's not what I'm saying but go ahead, I can't stop you but you're not going to stop me scumreading your play either

[Frogsterking]

There is something called the "Luca Blight tell" which I guess was never added to the wiki. I've been trying to find a link to where Luca explained it themselves.

[furtiveglance]

I disagree. I mean, it's certainly reasonable to not townread Juice, but I think having them as your top scumread this early is just safe and boring. They are borderline unreadable at this stage. Later we might have more content, a new player in the slot, whatever.

I'm tired of being told some players are too scummy to be pushed. I want to reward players who try.

Ok, that's not what I'm saying but go ahead, I can't stop you but you're not going to stop me scumreading your play either

I disagree that they're unreadable, I read their posting as scum. I'm townreading quite a few players, so why not vote a low content slot?

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: Juice

I read through one of Luca's isos as Town and I saw enough to indicate that they would take furtiveglance's side here. It seems the Luca Blight tell only applies to situations where we are already very familiar with the player Juice and their meta and we KNOW they play this way as Town. I think it's fair to put the heat on Juice and make it clear we expect them to Town tell in some capacity.

[Gamma Emerald]

Vote Count 1.4

Nuclear Gandhi (3): Eiralox, Greeting, Juice
Juice (2): furtiveglance, Frogsterking
DeltaWave (2): BlueBloodedToffee, hoppip
furtiveglance (1): Ausuka
Frogsterking (1): Nuclear Gandhi
inutile (1): DeltaWave

Not Voting: inutile, hutmeil, Mohab500

With 13 alive it takes 7 votes to forcibly remove a player.

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-08-28 15:00:00)

[hoppip]

Objection your honor; they're leading the witness.

Like hmm who could this post about several people making teamsolves in the thread be about??? Maybe the people who have been doing that repetitively, in this thread, open for everyone to read

Do you think it's fake confusion? Or do you think they're playing dumb?

I was confused by what you meant, but I realized my posts basically just asks "are they lying or are they lying" lmao. That should say "genuine confusion," not "fake confusion."

[hoppip]

why would you expect town!delta wave to mention this unprompted?

like

i am asking why would this be potentially scum indicative to you?

i guess i don't really get at all why this in particular 'looks bad' to you

i guess maybe unless you thought you saying you were going to look at their past games

was

a prompt for delta wave to say, 'hey that would be fruitless i haven't played any games in seven years' or whatever

but, uh,

i still do not understand how delta wave not doing so would be more likely to come from a mafia

Hmm, you mostly got it right. I don't think that alone is enough to believe he's scummy, it's just a inconsistency after all.

But in the post where I voted Delta, it was actually a follow up to how I didn't like his interactions with you earlier. That's two strikes, enough to earn a side eye from me on Day 1.

[hoppip]

inutile, hutmeil, Mohab500, hopefully you three can vote soon, even if you vote me I think it would be helpful to see where you want to push!

[hoppip]

I just got done driving all day. I'm going to catch up in the morning

Hi Delta! Do you think inutile or Eiralox have a good chance of being scum here? If so, I'd like to see a stronger push instead of getting into a shit fight, thanks! If not, why don't you seem interested in any of the leading wagons? Do you town read Gandhi and Juice?

[hutmeil]

inutile, hutmeil, Mohab500, hopefully you three can vote soon, even if you vote me I think it would be helpful to see where you want to push!

Will do so later on my laptop. Will reread there and then vote.

[Ausuka]

This game feels very bleh right now.

BBT talk to me where are you at

[furtiveglance]

This game feels very bleh right now.

BBT talk to me where are you at

Why don't you vote Juice, it will get a bit of momentum going.