Mini Normal 2279: VGSR - GAME OVER

[Ausuka]

This game feels very bleh right now.

BBT talk to me where are you at

Why don't you vote Juice, it will get a bit of momentum going.

Doubt it

[Ausuka]

I mean when I think of things we can do to rejuvenate a game voting a lurker is not particularly high on that list

[Ausuka]

I disagree. I mean, it's certainly reasonable to not townread Juice, but I think having them as your top scumread this early is just safe and boring. They are borderline unreadable at this stage. Later we might have more content, a new player in the slot, whatever.

I'm tired of being told some players are too scummy to be pushed. I want to reward players who try.

Ok, that's not what I'm saying but go ahead, I can't stop you but you're not going to stop me scumreading your play either

I disagree that they're unreadable, I read their posting as scum. I'm townreading quite a few players, so why not vote a low content slot?

I was out today. I'll be able to post more this time tomorrow. In short, Deltawave has been giving some good stuff and I quite like it, enough to unvote. I think Eiralox looks worse from their back and forth and I think the "I faked a read to test reactions" is easily faked and not amazing townplay in any case. BBT is a bit sus but not enough to vote yet. I'll vote Juice because they laughed about being sussed for RVS or something and it was weird.

VOTE: Juice

What do you think of eiralox and bbt now then

[furtiveglance]

I disagree. I mean, it's certainly reasonable to not townread Juice, but I think having them as your top scumread this early is just safe and boring. They are borderline unreadable at this stage. Later we might have more content, a new player in the slot, whatever.

I'm tired of being told some players are too scummy to be pushed. I want to reward players who try.

Ok, that's not what I'm saying but go ahead, I can't stop you but you're not going to stop me scumreading your play either

I disagree that they're unreadable, I read their posting as scum. I'm townreading quite a few players, so why not vote a low content slot?

I was out today. I'll be able to post more this time tomorrow. In short, Deltawave has been giving some good stuff and I quite like it, enough to unvote. I think Eiralox looks worse from their back and forth and I think the "I faked a read to test reactions" is easily faked and not amazing townplay in any case. BBT is a bit sus but not enough to vote yet. I'll vote Juice because they laughed about being sussed for RVS or something and it was weird.

VOTE: Juice

What do you think of eiralox and bbt now then

Not much has changed, both still sus for me.

[DeltaWave]

Hoppip - how did you get into a normal game when you've been here for like a week? i thought you had to do a newbie game first.

have you played mafia before on this site or other sites?

wanted to ask before i jump up and down on your logic from several pages back (tried to quote it but it didn't take)

someone scum reads me for my RVS - ROFLCOPTER

not really sure i even buy into the narrative that that was an rvs vote

like a page 8 random vote on the leading wagon seems kinda unlikely for a lot of reasons

though i get that you've also not played in some time so maybe different expectations but still seems unlikely

yeah

i now admit inutile is probably town due to this post.

UNVOTE: inutile

So I mean........ Delta is wrong, delta is defensive as fuck, delta is misrepping me bad, delta was very irritating and dodgy and illogical last night but, and meh i havent done the iso shtick cos I got a life, I can feel all those irregularities coming from town. Furtive? Rats but that slot just scumpings me on an instinct level, even tho they also feel green at the same time? paradox? maybe. But I think RE: Juice delta talking and furtive voting convinces me that scum is likelier in furtive than delta..... maybe........ too early for me. imma watch these two, something's whack.

Hoppip voting Delta is a very very interesting development.................. i'll post when I post/

can you just commit and vote for me already? i don't even know what the purpose would be to fixate on me as scum for so long and then not follow up. unless you're trying to see if anyone else is buying it before you do?

I mean when I think of things we can do to rejuvenate a game voting a lurker is not particularly high on that list

it's a little more than juice being a lurker though. as inutile pointed out, a supposed "random" vote 9 pages in, on the leading wagon, is sus. why would town!juice do that? it doesn't shake out.

i do agree that it's not terrifically interesting if only because juice's flip wouldn't provide a massive amount of associative information. but i can't get over the allegedly "random" vote on the top wagon combined with what seems to be a total lack of interest in scumhunting.



we've got time, we don't need to railroad juice right now. but I think juice is a big contender at this time.

[Ausuka]

why would town!juice do that? it doesn't shake out

You could equally ask why scum Juice would do that. It's not good play as either alignment. I have no particular love for that slot and I'm sure they'll probably be eliminated at some point unless there's a replacement but I stand by the idea pushing them as your primary scumread at this point is safe and boring and somewhat scum indicative as a result.

[furtiveglance]

why would town!juice do that? it doesn't shake out

You could equally ask why scum Juice would do that. It's not good play as either alignment. I have no particular love for that slot and I'm sure they'll probably be eliminated at some point unless there's a replacement but I stand by the idea pushing them as your primary scumread at this point is safe and boring and somewhat scum indicative as a result.

Ok, but I'm aware that pushing a lurker will get me this kind of negative attention as well. I think the problem you're having is that you have this cookie cutter idea of what mafia play like - calculated, choosing pushes carefully, etc. This might be how you play, or how you've seen others play, but the fact is that people do whatever they want.

[Ausuka]

That argument makes no sense. Obviously nothing is perfectly scum indicative. By that logic you shouldn't be scumreading Juice. They're just doing whatever they want as well, you just have a cookie cutter idea of what town play looks like.

[furtiveglance]

That argument makes no sense. Obviously nothing is perfectly scum indicative. By that logic you shouldn't be scumreading Juice. They're just doing whatever they want as well, you just have a cookie cutter idea of what town play looks like.

I find town easier to recognise than mafia in general.

[Mohab500]

That argument makes no sense. Obviously nothing is perfectly scum indicative. By that logic you shouldn't be scumreading Juice. They're just doing whatever they want as well, you just have a cookie cutter idea of what town play looks like.

I find town easier to recognise than mafia in general.

I mean, in most cases doesn't recognising town mean you also recognise mafia as its either town or mafia?

[furtiveglance]

That argument makes no sense. Obviously nothing is perfectly scum indicative. By that logic you shouldn't be scumreading Juice. They're just doing whatever they want as well, you just have a cookie cutter idea of what town play looks like.

I find town easier to recognise than mafia in general.

I mean, in most cases doesn't recognising town mean you also recognise mafia as its either town or mafia?

It's easier for me to divide people into Town/Not sure yet than divide people into Mafia/Not sure yet

[Ausuka]

That argument makes no sense. Obviously nothing is perfectly scum indicative. By that logic you shouldn't be scumreading Juice. They're just doing whatever they want as well, you just have a cookie cutter idea of what town play looks like.

I find town easier to recognise than mafia in general.

I mean, this is generally just true because more people are town than mafia. I feel like you're trying to make a point about my play with this but not sure what it is.

[Ausuka]

That argument makes no sense. Obviously nothing is perfectly scum indicative. By that logic you shouldn't be scumreading Juice. They're just doing whatever they want as well, you just have a cookie cutter idea of what town play looks like.

I find town easier to recognise than mafia in general.

I mean, in most cases doesn't recognising town mean you also recognise mafia as its either town or mafia?

Who is town or mafia in this game?

[furtiveglance]

That argument makes no sense. Obviously nothing is perfectly scum indicative. By that logic you shouldn't be scumreading Juice. They're just doing whatever they want as well, you just have a cookie cutter idea of what town play looks like.

I find town easier to recognise than mafia in general.

I mean, in most cases doesn't recognising town mean you also recognise mafia as its either town or mafia?

Who is town or mafia in this game?

I'd say I wouldn't vote you/DeltaWave/Frog/Greeting/Hoppip/Inutile today.

[furtiveglance]

That argument makes no sense. Obviously nothing is perfectly scum indicative. By that logic you shouldn't be scumreading Juice. They're just doing whatever they want as well, you just have a cookie cutter idea of what town play looks like.

I find town easier to recognise than mafia in general.

I mean, in most cases doesn't recognising town mean you also recognise mafia as its either town or mafia?

Who is town or mafia in this game?

I'd say I wouldn't vote you/DeltaWave/Frog/Greeting/Hoppip/Inutile today.

So that's half the other players I think are town.

[DeltaWave]

why would town!juice do that? it doesn't shake out

You could equally ask why scum Juice would do that. It's not good play as either alignment. I have no particular love for that slot and I'm sure they'll probably be eliminated at some point unless there's a replacement but I stand by the idea pushing them as your primary scumread at this point is safe and boring and somewhat scum indicative as a result.

i hear this, but juice needs pressure. juice can't just remain unexamined forever. we still have like, six days before d1 ends so there is time to apply pressure and still go in another direction if warranted.

VOTE: Juice

[Eiralox]

So I mean........ Delta is wrong, delta is defensive as fuck, delta is misrepping me bad, delta was very irritating and dodgy and illogical last night but, and meh i havent done the iso shtick cos I got a life, I can feel all those irregularities coming from town. Furtive? Rats but that slot just scumpings me on an instinct level, even tho they also feel green at the same time? paradox? maybe. But I think RE: Juice delta talking and furtive voting convinces me that scum is likelier in furtive than delta..... maybe........ too early for me. imma watch these two, something's whack.

Hoppip voting Delta is a very very interesting development.................. i'll post when I post/

can you just commit and vote for me already? i don't even know what the purpose would be to fixate on me as scum for so long and then not follow up. unless you're trying to see if anyone else is buying it before you do?

It is clear to me that at this point you aren't even reading what I'm saying. You are in a pre-asumption bias tunnel, ignoring content and seeing what you want to see. whuck makes things very simple to me.
1. I no longer see the value in engaging with you, as by your own behavior, whether intended or unintended, you are, imho, harmfully obfuscating things..and acting in a very circular manner. There are certain players that I always believe are best not engaged with by me, regardless of their alignment, and just now you have become such one.

2. which means, while i'm still null to green on you, i am certainly open to voting for you, because either: you are stuck in unfortunate loop, or u are scum abstractedly trying to craft a narrative, banking on players going 'yeah that interaction too weird must be tvt'. Or something else. regardless, I'll engage with you once I see any value in it.

[Eiralox]

I'll com,ment on other stuff later maybe. i'm like very meh on gandhi's post right now. back when i'm back.

[Eiralox]

First 2 pages

- I guess what looked like inutile narrating Ausuka's play but then trying to

diffuse the situation

when asked about why, it was really him thinking out loud. I don't blame myself for finding it sus earlier, never seen that (usually when someone thinks out loud it's not so.. empty). I'm willing to mark that as useful engagement by inutile.
- Ausuka's read in 42 https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13480278 is reasonable, for the above.
- Frog's read in 41 https://forum.mafiascum.net/memberlist. ... le&u=16233 also, though I'm surprised he could see everything so clearly.

- 45s https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13480284

"? it could easily be explained as coming from either mafia or town, why would i only consider the scumread aspect of it?"

by inutei feels too defensive intially. But on a 2nd thought, it's again him describing his playstyle so whatever. Currently I want inutei alive for now; I'm very confident that their playstyle makes their slot very very solvable in the long run so it's benefitial to give them the benefit of doubt.
- 47 https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13480293 by Frog is just.. deliberately aggrevating with unncessary unhelpful demeaning comment? Why?
Also of note: given that me, inutile, ausuka and Frog have been the only players who posted thus far, and Frog called me Town in 48 and 51 while calling inutile and ausuka locktown in 47 - it makes Frog's claim of there being a solvable wolf slot already be his own slot?

page 3

- 58 https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13480346 by Frog makes no sense given the above, since he must be talking about himself?
- While I can see what DeltaWave means in 67 https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13480602 ; I'm not as convinced it's that AI for inutile. A decent early sus though, but a bit weak to follow especially when it's on a self resolving slot like inutile seems to be.
- I can agree with hoppip's 68 https://forum.mafiascum.net/memberlist. ... le&u=36738 to an extent. I mean, I no longer think it's as bad looking for inutei as I originally thought but I wouldn't call them Town either like hoppip does.
- inutile, if you read this, what did you mean by "traction" in 70? https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13480622
- 72 https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13480625 by DeltaWave is interesting in the sense that I don't think a player who hasn't played since 2015, or whenever, would be so directly shade throwy and so early if they were wolf? It's so "in your face" WIM energy, though I'm not sure. This read is entirely based on the idea that someone who hasn't played so long wouldn't be so fearless as Mafia, but I don't know what type of person they are. Good enough for a Day1 read as far as I'm concerned though.
- Really wish inutile in 74 https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13480627 didn't leave his comment to implications and instead said what they think. What's the point other than off hand shade throwing? If you throw shades at least don't leave them to implications and say what you mean.

page 4

- 76 https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13480629 Can I just say that, yet again, this makes way more sense coming from a Town!DeltaWave simply given the 7 years of not playing? I hate this read because without that fact, I'd call this shade throwing otherwise.
- 79 https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13480637 by DeltaWave, again, that's a fair view tbh.
- hoppip, if you read this, what's the difference between "looks bad" and "looks scummy"? https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13480649 ; Though I can now see how "shading Inutile for superficial reasons" isn't necessarily scummy, as I got the same view on this re-read. But honestly, without that

hasn't played for 7 years

thing, I could usually never see that as not scummy.
- inutile, you're completely right in 88 https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13480742 ; I'd like to apologize for that.
- due to 90 https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13480744 I've the feeling that inutile is the type of person who's super easy to get voted out if you're Mafia, all you need is to sus them and their focus will be limited to defending themselves, which can only lead to their overall game contribution to look nothing but scummy. I think we should give inutile some breathing room. Again, I'm super certain that slot is easily solvable in the long run.
- At this point in game inutile is/was such a low hanging fruit, that I think 95 https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13480777 is a good look for Ausuka. Not by much, because multiple people called inutile town by this point. But I do believe a inutile miselim would had been an easy path for a wolf!Ausuka.
- I don't like 99 https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13480784 by Frog tbh. Because I don't see why would you townread someone for trying to communicate something that you yourself don't understand what it is. Because "it seemed important to them"? This may be a wild guess, but I believe it's possible for wolves to also have some importance in explaining and defending themselves. This is a bad townread reasoning tbh.


Alright, I know I only got 4 pages in - but I honestly feel good about my progress. I'm starting to tell slots apart from each other and have some view on how the game is going, so I think it'll be much easier for me the next time I come in. Nevertheless I'll need to up my activity a bit to be left behind.
VOTE: Frogsterking I got nothing better tbh; simply put the only slot who gave me some negative vibes on this re-read catchup.

Be back tommorow

ok........................................
>Hyper-focus on inutile... very freudian almost: "I know that inutile will be easily spottable as scum, so keep them alive." Your post comes now after a bunch of us has townread or locked inutile, which, as delta has so blatantly pointed out, makes inutile less of an easy place for scum to push. so convenient for you.
>I sense an overall.... trusty vibe between you and hopip. And the callout... Yeah I don't like them vibes.
>You towning delta is NAI for me.
>I've read through your entire block. and i can honestly say, delving past the hyper-psychoanalytika focus on inutile, there's isn't really a sense of scumhunting..... especially not towards frogsterking, which I was specifically looking for.

I think, in the interim before i do other analyses, i can vote on you and hoppip. strange vibes coming from both of you. I can frame your above post as "I am town let me tell ya'll what i really think" or "I am scum let me throw a word salad out there then vote without really fielding a case.". At this point in the game I want way more justification from u for why frogster.

Frogster unvoted you so on that alone i'm giving you the benefit of the doubt. But I really want a reason for your vote other than 'bad vibes'.

[Frogsterking]

Frogster unvoted you so on that alone i'm giving you the benefit of the doubt

To be clear, I thought Gandhi's post was sketch (in the context of Gandhi now being a lurker slot) and I won't be sad seeing them go D1 or D2. I voted Juice to get them to do anything. I did some research and decided furtiveglance is right about not letting slots like Juice coast by.

[Juice]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: DeltaWave

this Penguin is looking for an easy lynch - just because ive been a bit inactive

[Frogsterking]

Do you have any town reads, Juice?

[Juice]

Ausuka is town for sure.

[Frogsterking]

Juice, is that an intuitive read or did Ausuka do something you townread for?

[DeltaWave]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: DeltaWave

this Penguin is looking for an easy lynch - just because ive been a bit inactive

egregious #365 misrep

so far you've had a "random" vote on page 9 which just so happened to be on the largest wagon

now you do some OMGUS b/c i put pressure on you to stop lurking

and your only read is town on asuka, which is like the safest read ever

TELL ME MORE