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Post Post #425 (ISO) » Tue Aug 23, 2022 5:16 am

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

In post 233, Frogsterking wrote:Do you still think furtive is scum? From my point of view your interaction looks quite a bit TvT.
What about Eira's posting made you think he was town from that exchange?
In post 282, furtiveglance wrote:I was out today. I'll be able to post more this time tomorrow. In short, Deltawave has been giving some good stuff and I quite like it, enough to unvote. I think Eiralox looks worse from their back and forth and I think the "I faked a read to test reactions" is easily faked and not amazing townplay in any case. BBT is a bit sus but not enough to vote yet. I'll vote Juice because they laughed about being sussed for RVS or something and it was weird.

VOTE: Juice
Can you expand on the 'good stuff' Delta has posted, I'm not seeing it. Juice vote is good, though.
In post 283, hoppip wrote: VOTE: Delta

I think it looks pretty bad that they didn't think to mention that a meta dive on their past games would be fruitless and out of date. I think that's worth a pressure vote or two.
This reasoning is tragically bad.
In post 322, Ausuka wrote: Juice is supreme limbait. I don't have any strong evidence that they're town (I suppose play like this is somewhat +town just because if they were scum their partners would probably bully them into not doing this?) but I do agree that pushes there raise eyebrows to some extent.
Juice has popped in thread twice now. Both times they posted regarding something directly related to them and nothing else, this is more than enough justification for a push there. They are not making any attempts to game solve.

Sometimes, scum are just bad.
In post 323, Ausuka wrote:
In post 258, Eiralox wrote:delta/hoppip isn't a team solve to me, but a blatant pattern that i feel delta is trying very hard to veer past for whatever reason. if i felt town on either slot I woulda let it slide, but I don't.
I'm going to be honest, I don't see the Delta read - I don't agree that scum are more likely to respond defensively and aggressively in the way he did to you, and I think Delta is likely to be town here

I don't think hoppip is a bad place to look though, his posting hasn't really whelmed me and the push on Delta felt slightly slimy in the sense that "if he was town he would have brought up his meta in response to my post" doesn't feel like a real thought? Does anyone else, like, understand this line of reasoning? If people do it might just be a me thing, but otherwise I don't like the read
Can you read my posts regarding Delta and then come back to me with an updated read? I agree that defensiveness and aggression are not scum tells and these are not included in my reasoning for thinking he is scum.

Good posting regarding Hoppip, I thought the exact same thing.
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Post Post #426 (ISO) » Tue Aug 23, 2022 5:24 am

Post by DeltaWave »

tl;dr - post-hoc rationalizations for a scummy vote choice

bbt - if juice wasn't e-1 would you vote juice?
When there's trouble, you call DW.

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Post Post #427 (ISO) » Tue Aug 23, 2022 5:32 am

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

Nice dismissal of my posts. How scummy.
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Post Post #428 (ISO) » Tue Aug 23, 2022 5:34 am

Post by DeltaWave »

it's so ironic that you would post that while also ignoring my question lmao
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Post Post #429 (ISO) » Tue Aug 23, 2022 5:35 am

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

Of course I ignored your question.

I just posted at least 5 things aimed at you and you dismissed them all. But I'm supposed to respond to you? Haha, get fucked.
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Post Post #430 (ISO) » Tue Aug 23, 2022 5:36 am

Post by DeltaWave »

ruuuuuuude
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Post Post #431 (ISO) » Tue Aug 23, 2022 5:37 am

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

I agree, you were extremely rude.
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Post Post #432 (ISO) » Tue Aug 23, 2022 5:38 am

Post by DeltaWave »

you are being toxic
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Post Post #433 (ISO) » Tue Aug 23, 2022 5:38 am

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

I no longer want to continue this conversation.

If you want to address my posts, we can talk. Otherwise, I'm done.
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Post Post #434 (ISO) » Tue Aug 23, 2022 5:41 am

Post by DeltaWave »

the main problem is that i'm not interested in your scummy opinions. you hopped on a wagon using borrowed reasoning and now want to defend that b/c you were called out.
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Post Post #435 (ISO) » Tue Aug 23, 2022 5:42 am

Post by Ausuka »

In post 423, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Hmm, OK I disagree with this. I thought his post regarding Delta was pretty decent and was something I picked up on initially as well. The 'delayed OMGUS' was a bad term to use, sure, but doesn't negate his point.

Do you disagree that Hoppip calls Delta's post 'bad' and Delta responds by saying Hoppip is 'sus'?
I don't disagree. I am a little baffled by the argument that this is scummy.
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Post Post #436 (ISO) » Tue Aug 23, 2022 5:46 am

Post by Ausuka »

In post 423, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Why does Delta feel like an easy push? Why can't an easy push still be on scum?
An easy push can absolutely be on scum but an easy push deserves more scrutiny than usual I think

Sorry I know I should probably multiquote here but I'm on mobile so.
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Post Post #437 (ISO) » Tue Aug 23, 2022 5:47 am

Post by Ausuka »

In post 424, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:However, the fact you have now acknowledged this yourself and given the whole 'I dont care if I'm scum read for my outlandish scum read' schtick, I really, really can't emphasise how much I dislike this post.
This is a tell that I used to believe in but it kept being wrong so I don't think it's scummy anymore. It seems like for whatever reason town often play theatrically
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Post Post #438 (ISO) » Tue Aug 23, 2022 5:50 am

Post by Ausuka »

In post 425, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Juice has popped in thread twice now. Both times they posted regarding something directly related to them and nothing else, this is more than enough justification for a push there. They are not making any attempts to game solve.

Sometimes, scum are just bad.
I don't disagree. I would add that town are sometimes just bad but I think juice is decently likely to be scum here. The issue I have with the Juice push is I think it's boring because they play so blatantly scummy. Nobody is ever going to townread Juice, everyone sees the logic why they can't be allowed to live. That slot never lives to endgame, scum are going to bus them early and probably hard it they are scum, I just think it's a boring push that is safe to make and doesn't really help the game advance.
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Post Post #439 (ISO) » Tue Aug 23, 2022 5:55 am

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

In post 435, Ausuka wrote: I don't disagree. I am a little baffled by the argument that this is scummy.
I think it's important to note that because this point has been spoken about a few times it feels like a huge thing. It wasn't, and isn't, a big thing for me but I felt like it needed attention drawn to it.

It's scummy because it feels overly defensive. To clarify, I'm not saying defensiveness is scummy in a vacuum, but this defensiveness felt scummy in this particular scenario.
In post 436, Ausuka wrote: An easy push can absolutely be on scum but an easy push deserves more scrutiny than usual I think
OK, but you can only work with what you're given.

At the very least, pressure on these slots create discussion. If it doesn't, that slot is no use to town even if green and only becomes a liability later in the game. Sort these slots out early.
In post 437, Ausuka wrote: This is a tell that I used to believe in but it kept being wrong so I don't think it's scummy anymore. It seems like for whatever reason town often play theatrically
This tell is absolutely a thing. Can you just clarify which specific part you are referring to though?

Is it the 'pushing against widely town read players' or is it the reference to their own play?

PEdit - See my post here for further thoughts on Juice, I don't disagree with much that you said.
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Post Post #440 (ISO) » Tue Aug 23, 2022 6:07 am

Post by Ausuka »

In post 439, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:
In post 435, Ausuka wrote: I don't disagree. I am a little baffled by the argument that this is scummy.
I think it's important to note that because this point has been spoken about a few times it feels like a huge thing. It wasn't, and isn't, a big thing for me but I felt like it needed attention drawn to it.

It's scummy because it feels overly defensive. To clarify, I'm not saying defensiveness is scummy in a vacuum, but this defensiveness felt scummy in this particular scenario.
In post 436, Ausuka wrote: An easy push can absolutely be on scum but an easy push deserves more scrutiny than usual I think
OK, but you can only work with what you're given.

At the very least, pressure on these slots create discussion. If it doesn't, that slot is no use to town even if green and only becomes a liability later in the game. Sort these slots out early.
In post 437, Ausuka wrote: This is a tell that I used to believe in but it kept being wrong so I don't think it's scummy anymore. It seems like for whatever reason town often play theatrically
This tell is absolutely a thing. Can you just clarify which specific part you are referring to though?

Is it the 'pushing against widely town read players' or is it the reference to their own play?

PEdit - See my post here for further thoughts on Juice, I don't disagree with much that you said.
Again I am on mobile so will answer in a fairly awkward format, let me know if anything needs clarifying.

1) I kind of disagree that it felt scummy, if anything it felt towny to me but you said this isn't a big deal for you so whatever.

2) I don't really agree that pushing on these slots generates discussion, frankly? Well, it generates discussion in some form, but I don't think it's very useful discussion. I think talking more about slots like hoppip would be more helpful because they are capable of towning and removing themselves from the limpool in a way I frankly do not think Juice is.

3) I'm referring to the part where they are super theatrical about how they are playing like town, don't care how they're read or if they die, etc. That seemed to be the core of your read
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Post Post #441 (ISO) » Tue Aug 23, 2022 6:18 am

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

I meant more in terms of discussion from the slot itself - they either respond to pressure or they get elimmed. If they're allowed to coast, they never get sorted until it's too late. Always best to sort these slots early in the game.

Players like Hoppip can be engaged any time, D2 for example. They can be engaged with throughout D1 as well, even with the focus on Juice. The biggest difference is that Hoppip is voluntarily contributing to game thread things and Juice isn't.

The third point I agree with somewhat. Again, if this was in a vacuum, I think I would agree. But given Delta played in that way specifically and then made reference to it after nobody else did is why it's scummy.
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Post Post #442 (ISO) » Tue Aug 23, 2022 8:55 am

Post by Nuclear Gandhi »

I swear that inner procrastinator in me knows no boundaries



page 5

- Remeber how Frog called me town back in ? Presumably it was due to his stated reason in - he trusted Ausuka's read on me. Now in similar story again. He calls votes me after noting in that 2 other players voted me. Maybe Frog is a sheep. But from my perspective, he isn't solving anything just trying to fit in with the crowd.
- I can see what furtiveglance means in when they say was omgus'y by DeltaWave.
(it's easier to see if you look at to see the whole short discussion and see the disproportionate reaction which was 83)

I don't want to sound like a broken record, but, again, that's something I'm willing to let slide due to the DeltaWave hasn't played for 7 years thing. Sure it's worth noting, but enough for Day1 elim.
- Frog, again, is being unhelpful in . What does "Not really." mean exactly? That we can't agree to disagree? That he can't color the same way I did so we can look closer to the differences in how we see things, nor can he explain in his own words? We don't see it opposite? We see it opposite but that doesn't mean one of us has to be wrong?
It's not the first, since he dropped the topic.
It could be the first half the 2nd, but then why wouldn't he try the other half to help game solve process?
If it's the 3rd then his disagreeing with me didn't make sense.
If it's the last then idk what he's smoking.
Whatever it is, 114 to me shows a clear disinterest to game solve by Frog.
[note that the argument itself no longer interests me since I changed my mind since then]
- is interesting by Greeting, due to it adding to the pile of
red flag triggers
people had on DeltaWave. Although the read is obviously complete nonsense, that's obviously not what DeltaWave meant. Fwiw(not much), I'm fairly certain this means Greeting and DeltaWave could never be wolves together.
- I just want to call Greeting wolf/wolf with Frog after reading , though I'm obviously super biased.
Greeting, what makes Frog towny in your eyes? Seriously I don't see anything towny about him.
- is officially the first post that looks like Frog rocks the boat even the slightest. Ausuka wolf read furtiveglance in and DeltaWave town read furtiveglance in . Ausuka's wolf read seem to have some hidden reasoning behind it whilst DeltaWave townread reason was limited to
"yeah, i know, I deserve to be wolf read"
. So why did Frog chose to townread furtiveglance? I expect it's because furtiveglance townread Frog in . On a different note: this seem to be yet another red flag for DeltaWave.

page 6

- I am NOT voting furtiveglance today after . He had: Ausuka asking them a question then vote them in and / DeltaWave townreading them in for the
"yeah, i know, I deserve to be wolf read"
reasoning / Frog "townlocking" them in . What did furtiveglance first respond to? The worse looking read of the 3. To me this shows a clear sign of focus on game solving on furtiveglance's part.
- furtiveglance, do you have a lot of experience playing with Frog? You calling their reads "Non sequitur" in suggests that. I was wondering if you could provide some insight into Frog's playstyle?
- This'll probably be a controversial opinion, but I think (DeltaWave) is a good look for DeltaWave for a funny reason. Why? Because furtiveglance asked a simple question: why doesn't DeltaWave talk more about her wolf read inutile? As large as DeltaWave's response is, she doesn't even respond to that question - only saying things like
"that's funny, because you're looking more like town to me the more we talk"
- completely stuck in their own head. I think a wolf in that post would had tried to appeal to furtiveglance's question in some way.
- I like that Frog now in has said what I expected; that they're a sheep. Only looking at where the herd is looking at. If this is a player thing and not alignment thing, then perhaps some of my reasons for sussing him was wrong. But not all of them. I still think that playstyle is inherently scummy. Like why not discuss a topic with another player where you disagree with? That seems like a obvious way to gamesolve.
- I'm a fan of BBT. Just saw myself nodding throughout most of their post. 2 exceptions being: "Serious vote?" it obviously wasn't by hutmeil / wolf reading DeltaWave (where they agreed with furtiveglance's reads), I just feel like DeltaWave is too easy target while have some points going for her.
- hutmeil what does this mean? townread whom? the person you vote? For asking
"Why are you scumreading Ghandhi? Bit of a non-sequitur I know but I don't want to get into your improv stuff."
?
- I'm genuinly surprised Frog townreading someone who wolf reads him. I put on my aluminium hat and say it's because of the player type that BBT is?
- Bet you I'm the only one who likes this post by DeltaWave. More specifically, the
"not sure what your angle is here"
part of it.
- I hate myself for saying this but looks good on Frog? What I mean is, he sticks to his schtick again where he wants to look at what other people look; in this he asks
"My condition is that I want you to choose something more specific from Ghandi's iso for me to talk about"
. Although this playstyle I do feel is inherently scummy - not being cooperative when people ask something. But him sticking to his ways shows a game process? Previously I thought Frog is just a sheep unwilling to solve. Well, he is a sheep and he most certainly is uncooperative and not a team player, but at least now I see there's a process going on behind the scenes. Hate his playstyle. Could easily still be wolf. But I'm willing to vote elsewhere if anything better shows up.
- 's
"I missed this intially because I posted right after."
says that my previous comment where I said "I am NOT voting furtiveglance today" was based on wrong reasons. Actually for me now there's nothing AI for furtiveglance's slot anymore. Best I could give is: the sus on DeltaWave is every so slightly sus because she's an easy target whilst the townread on Frog for
"Frogsterking is making a lot of reads early on which I usually find towny"
is just bad reasoning if given any in-depths look at the sources of Frog's reads.
you know.. the sheeping part..
. Calling those things wolfy by furtiveglance only makes sense, to me, if assume his usual reads levels are higher than surface level. That'd be a pressumption. But in case I see nothing better, I'm willing to go with that presumption. ( looked so good though?)
- is fine look for furtive because it kinda shows surface level reading.
- by Greeting gives me a bit of wolf talking about another wolf vibe. Though the content does mirror my observations. I feel like they're either both town or both wolves.. don't ask why though..
- aligns well with furtive's reasoning in . A good look.


other

In slightly more than than I spent 48 hours ago, I went through half as many posts as I did then. This gives me real back to school kind of vibes - where my procrastination be like "there's time, it'll be easy" just to learn it's more than I expected.
Also, I seem to have no real scumreads atm, though a couple that I'm OK with voting / not thrilled though. I suck.
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Post Post #443 (ISO) » Tue Aug 23, 2022 8:57 am

Post by Nuclear Gandhi »

look at that, sentences missing words n stuff..
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Post Post #444 (ISO) » Tue Aug 23, 2022 11:04 am

Post by Frogsterking »

Gandhi's play is almost identical to my first~ scum game I played on this site.

Juice is starting to seem kind of scum frozen to me. Hello? Earth to Juice?
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Terry: ...Thanks.
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Post Post #445 (ISO) » Tue Aug 23, 2022 11:09 am

Post by Frogsterking »

In post 425, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:What about Eira's posting made you think he was town from that exchange?
Everything. The uncertainty. I'm pretty sure scum!Eira just lurks out of posting that entire exchange. I think Eira and furtive have different playstyles so it makes sense to me that they both go at it when they're Town.
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Post Post #446 (ISO) » Tue Aug 23, 2022 11:16 am

Post by Frogsterking »

VOTE: Gandhi

I slightly prefer Gandhi to Juice. I think both are scummy.
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Post Post #447 (ISO) » Tue Aug 23, 2022 11:26 am

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

Gandhi is scum again because?
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Post Post #448 (ISO) » Tue Aug 23, 2022 11:26 am

Post by Frogsterking »

In post 447, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Gandhi is scum again because?
I'm pretty sure you haven't read their iso.
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Post Post #449 (ISO) » Tue Aug 23, 2022 11:28 am

Post by BlueBloodedToffee »

I see, no explanation.

Good to know.
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