Mini Normal 2279: VGSR - GAME OVER

[Frogsterking]

PSA:

Unless you want to spend D2 sifting through walls of analysis about page 15 I suggest you kill one of Gandhi or MND to make it stop. Below is the box where you can put requests to give MND more time to catch up since they're a replacement slot.

Spoiler:

no

[DeltaWave]

That's great Delta. I reread 557 and it's golden. Can you explain why you're fence sitting on at least half of your reads? Also can you clarify the following read into anything that sounds believable?

furtiveglance - i'm pretty sure you're town. i see town reasoning behind a lot of your actions.

define "fence sitting" for me

[Mapuche Never Die]

VOTE: MND

Why

Why not?

It feels like you are active lurking and my vote was partly cast in an attempt to spur you into action. But also thinking back I'm thinking that Juice could maybe have been scum afterall. Like I get that coincidences happen but saying that the RVS just happened to land on someone that was a viable wagon at that point seems a bit iffy to me.

its 2 days and change till deadline and you are still back on p11.

So many are being so useless with their votes.

I’m not active lurking, I replaced in 2 days ago and now am catching up?

[Mapuche Never Die]

I guess I’ll do a quicker catchup and assuming I survive today, I’ll do I bigger one during the night

I’m on page 13 and I think a Greeting/BBT team is probable

[Mapuche Never Die]

Sorting.

Greeting

inutile

Ausuka

furtiveglance
BlueBloodedToffee
Frogsterking

DeltaWave

PoE:

Juice
hutmeil
hoppip
Eiralox
Mohab500
Nuclear Gandhi

This read list is odd in that Greeting decides that BBT should be out of the PoE despite BBT only having made two posts of substantive content

[Mapuche Never Die]

VOTE: Juice

Highly likely to be scum. 5 days in and 0 game solving.

Will be catching up on this properly later today.

“5 days and 0 game solving”
Okay but juice was inactive.
That doesn’t make them “highly likely to be scum”

[Mapuche Never Die]

Initially I gave Juice the benefit of the doubt (late RVS??). Then the slot voted Delta which I town lean, then town reads Ausuka for no given reason.

VOTE: Juice

As for the other slots, I'm willing to give a pass since it's still D1.

This is E-1 (if I counted correctly).

This is also a bad post. A lack of explanation for a read isn’t scummy.

[Mapuche Never Die]

UNVOTE: juice

Nice. I guess townie points for you. I'm still waiting for your survey though.

hutmeil votes Juice, then gives Frogster townpoints for unvoting juice

[Mapuche Never Die]

What are your reads on other players

Not gonna do a comprehensive one, but here's my readslist:

[Obviously!]

hutmeil

[The they make sense list (at least for me) and are actively trying to solve things]

Frogsterking
inutile
Eiralox
DeltaWave
Ausuka

[The not so active but presented enough information to get a pass on D1]
furtiveglance
Greeting
Nuclear Gandhi
Mohab500
BlueBloodedToffee
hoppip

[Already explained this. Basically, the slot lurks but is good enough for an elim because he has voted and given his read, so we can get some info next day]

Juice

This is incredibly disingenuous. Juice hasn’t been lurking, they’ve been inactive. And hutmeil tries to frame it as if we’ll get information from the juice lim, but juice has townread an obvtown and scumread a random person for voting them.

[DeltaWave]

a juice lim would have provided just about zero information. the primary benefit to the juicewagon was pressure and i sus those who wanted to end the day early

[Frogsterking]

That's great Delta. I reread 557 and it's golden. Can you explain why you're fence sitting on at least half of your reads? Also can you clarify the following read into anything that sounds believable?

furtiveglance - i'm pretty sure you're town. i see town reasoning behind a lot of your actions.

define "fence sitting" for me

557

[Greeting]

Serious vote?

It wasn't when I cast it, but now that I have caught up, I don't really feel inclined to change it. I think pressure on that slot is justified.

This seems odd, given that Greeting hasn’t talked much about Gandhi.

How is it odd?

[DeltaWave]

That's great Delta. I reread 557 and it's golden. Can you explain why you're fence sitting on at least half of your reads? Also can you clarify the following read into anything that sounds believable?

furtiveglance - i'm pretty sure you're town. i see town reasoning behind a lot of your actions.

define "fence sitting" for me

557

if you want me to respond to your post you're gonna have to tell me how you define fence sitting.

[Greeting]

Ausuka

, any thoughts about my townreads?

I think the inutile read is pretty convincing but I'm townreading it anyway.

One thing I'm wondering about is that you implied you townread me pretty heavily earlier but now are saying you don't think I've been scumhunting much - did your read change or something?

Wait, what?

I am

townreading

intuile

. What do you mean by that sentence?

As for the read on you, while reading the thread, the tone and responses looked towny, but when I checked your ISO, the overall game contribution looked worse than

intuile

’s.

Greeting’s scumhunting seems very selective, he’s actively talking to very few players and ignoring a lot of other stuff happening in-thread.

Of course it is. I can’t focus on everything all the time. There are players on MS whose posts I just usually don’t read, because my head hurts when I do (and that includes this game too). I leave sorting them to others or just try to focus on them when I really have no other choice.

[Greeting]

MHD is feeling town to me. we aren't going to eliminate gandhi.

keeping nero in the likely town pool (doesn't change my inutile read)

i like the greeting wagon. i don't want to vote until we get a VC because idk how close greeting is to hammer.

My biggest issue with the Greeting wagon is that Greeting is V/la so they don't have the ability to adequately defend themselves. I also haven't checked Greeting's meta to see if they normally propose this strategy D1.

Posts like the above are fueling my confbias of a Delta/Gandhi/MHD solve.

If you were talking about 542, I have always considered days on MafiaScum to be excessively long. As in, good to have a time backup, but dragging on days when there’s a scumslot agreed upon feels unnecessary. The major counterargument came from a recently-ended game, but it’s not applicable in Day 1 + town really did misplay that game.

[Greeting]

I see a lot of talk about

DeltaWave

and they're definitely in the PoE for me. The ISO is quite shallow, when at this point there's more than enough content to make deeper reads. Not going to lie,

intuile

is probably my strongest townlean for now, and the fact that this is the player

DeltaWave

has been so focused in this game makes him look worse in my eyes.

I suppose I agree with him that

hoppip

is sus, and

Ausuka

is town, but my gut tells me that something's not right here.

i'm actually interested in hearing from the sideliners since this has mostly been the same few active people talking

I'd be actually very much interested in hearing more from you.

that's a fallacy that even very seasoned mafia players make, so i'll call it a null for you. specifically, I'm referring to the idea that if you think Player A is town and Player B votes for Player A then Player B is likely mafia. makes assumptions that aren't true, and day 1 usually consists of town primarily going at each other while mafia eggs it on or hides. but like I said, even people who have played many many games make this mistake so I will call it a null for you.

i'm standing by my position that inutile is sus and i really don't care that it's making people scumread me. i'm not going to back off what i think is my best read right now because it's unpopular or it might get me eliminated. clearly, an inutile elimination is not going to happen right now based on how people are reading her but i don't operate on consensus like that. i truly do not understand why people see inutile as town. as i said before, if there's evidence that she always plays this way (even as town) then my tune might change but to date, nobody has done so unless I somehow missed it. you can think i'm mafia all you want but i would have picked a safer bet than this if that was the case. if you really think that mafia will wagon popular players instead of killing them at night i dont know what to tell you.

the hubbub around ghandi is interesting and i don't know what to make of it right now. people took very strong opinions about the player right off the bat and i can't understand why that would be the case. it would be interesting to revisit those interactions once we see some flips.

as for other reads.

asuka strikes me as town.
furtiveglance also strikes me as town. although his vote against me is wrong, the rationale seems towny.
bbt, on the other hand, strikes me as someone who wanted to piggyback off furtive's reasoning to join a relatively uncontroversial wagon that coincidentally targets the main person campaigning against inutile.
hoppip is neutral, leaning town. the rationale for sussing me wasn't great but is the kind of rationale i could expect from townspeople.
nuclear g - again, not sure what to make of this player since i just don't have a read on them and i'm confused as to why this is the biggest wagon rn. i'm not saying it's wrong, just don't know if it's right
juice, hut, miralax, and mohab all fall into the same category for me, which are low activity lurkers. there is ALWAYS scum in this group on d1. i wouldn't be surprised if juice is scum who is letting us slug it out. only two posts and still maintaining an RVS vote when we're nine pages in.

i wouldn't be terribly surprised if it's inutile/juice/bbt, assuming a standard 10:3 split.

I really like this post and I can’t fully explain why but it seems very tonally genuine

I agree and this post is why afterwards I left the author out of the PoE.

[Greeting]

Sorting.

Greeting

inutile

Ausuka

furtiveglance
BlueBloodedToffee
Frogsterking

DeltaWave

PoE:

Juice
hutmeil
hoppip
Eiralox
Mohab500
Nuclear Gandhi

This read list is odd in that Greeting decides that BBT should be out of the PoE despite BBT only having made two posts of substantive content

I honestly don’t remember why I did this. I played one game with him where I was scum, and felt threatened enough that I killed him (Newbie 2095). I probably saw the same tone as in that game and just put him into the townbin for that. I will have to check to make sure though.

[Greeting]

Mapuche Never Die

is likely town. Glad the slot was replaced, otherwise I would have hammered a likely townie.

[DeltaWave]

If you were talking about 542, I have always considered days on MafiaScum to be excessively long.

i'm glad someone agrees with me on this. days could be shorter which would make the game more fast-paced and interesting. but because we have the long days we do, it might as well go to use. especially day 1

[Ausuka]

why do you townread MND?

pedit: don't think this game would have been fast paced regardless of the deadline

[Mapuche Never Die]

could someone kindly explain to me what the hubbub is about nuclear, because i still frankly do not understand what went on in the first 10 pages with this wagon

do you think nuclear gandhi has been towny since being wagoned?

like yea the wagon has largely gone away but in that time nuclear gandhi has made one post about the first four pages which was a whole change of approach from previous posting

so is the extent of your thoughts on nuclear gandhi still dunno why they were wagoned?

i'm going to ISO nuclear after work and share some thoughts.

the part that confuses me about the wagon is that there were such immediate polar reactions and i couldn't figure out where that was coming from.

Alright I think I’m comfortable writing DW and Ausuka off as town.

[Greeting]

why do you townread MND?

pedit: don't think this game would have been fast paced regardless of the deadline

While making reads I prioritise intent over tone.

MND

’s gamesolving intent is evident and sounds genuine. Even though he’s scumreading me.

Like, the fact that I wanted hammer half-way into Day 1, could be, objectively speaking, taken as a scumtell, but its importance is hugely overrated. It’s being talked about as if it was the most important thing I ever did in this game, when in reality nothing happened, and it wouldn’t have happened anyway while the slot was being replaced.

Another valid point he made was about me voting

Nuclear Gandhi

even though I haven’t talked much about him. That’s also true. But the full truth is that

Gandhi

has done nothing yet when the vote was cast and when he started contributing and analysing, I focused my mind off him. Nonetheless, I did not say it and so the confusion is probably genuine.

[Nero Cain]

I’m not active lurking, I replaced in 2 days ago and now am catching up?

but your pace is plodding. You have lots of little posts and it looks like you are trying to make yourself look more active than you really are.

[Nero Cain]

hey Greeting. You do realize that part of scums jobs is to make "good points" and try to come off as townie? They are going to poke holes and cast doubt on town b/c that like their job. I personally don't think that your reason to town read him is very good. What do you think about my accusation that he's active lurking?

[Nero Cain]

at least you answered the q unlike Delta.