Mini Normal 2279: VGSR - GAME OVER

[Mapuche Never Die]

The timing in 599 made me suspicious. Doesn't make them scum. Just like their point about me in 599.

Oh yeah I remember posting 599 and seeing 598 and thinking, “weird coincidence”

[Frogsterking]

The timing in 599 made me suspicious. Doesn't make them scum. Just like their point about me in 599.

Oh yeah I remember posting 599 and seeing 598 and thinking, “weird coincidence”

Yeah. And I went on tilt faster during your catchup because I was already annoyed with Gandhi. It makes sense.

[Frogsterking]

Okay I'll say Gandhi/hut/? scum and Ausuka is always Town here..

[Mapuche Never Die]

Okay I'll say Gandhi/hut/? scum and Ausuka is always Town here..

Are you willing to vote hutmeil today?

[Frogsterking]

Okay I'll say Gandhi/hut/? scum and Ausuka is always Town here..

Are you willing to vote hutmeil today?

Hell yeah

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: hutmeil

[Gamma Emerald]

Vote Count 1.9

hutmeil (5): Ausuka, DeltaWave, Greeting, Mapuche Never Die, Frogsterking
Greeting (4): Crescent, Eiralox, Nuclear Gandhi, furtiveglance
Mapuche Never Die (3): hoppip, BlueBloodedToffee, Nero Cain

Not Voting: hutmeil

With 13 alive it takes 7 votes to forcibly remove a player.

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-08-28 20:45:00)

Mod notes:
Greeting is V/LA until Saturday
I may be at EPCOT when deadline comes so you may get extended twilight

[Crescent]

I'm a kitty. Meow.

I read around... Half the pages, and the thing that sticks out to me is that Juice wagon so that's where I'm starting an analysis because I'm tired of reading pages.

Between posts #365 and #401 people are all over the guy.

I was out today. I'll be able to post more this time tomorrow. In short, Deltawave has been giving some good stuff and I quite like it, enough to unvote. I think Eiralox looks worse from their back and forth and I think the "I faked a read to test reactions" is easily faked and not amazing townplay in any case. BBT is a bit sus but not enough to vote yet. I'll vote Juice because they laughed about being sussed for RVS or something and it was weird.

VOTE: Juice

This feels like a really weak justification.

VOTE: Juice

I read through one of Luca's isos as Town and I saw enough to indicate that they would take furtiveglance's side here. It seems the Luca Blight tell only applies to situations where we are already very familiar with the player Juice and their meta and we KNOW they play this way as Town. I think it's fair to put the heat on Juice and make it clear we expect them to Town tell in some capacity.

Yeah I have no idea where this is going but it's effectively just a pressure vote. I've made votes solely for this purpose so I guess it's fine.

why would town!juice do that? it doesn't shake out

You could equally ask why scum Juice would do that. It's not good play as either alignment. I have no particular love for that slot and I'm sure they'll probably be eliminated at some point unless there's a replacement but I stand by the idea pushing them as your primary scumread at this point is safe and boring and somewhat scum indicative as a result.

i hear this, but juice needs pressure. juice can't just remain unexamined forever. we still have like, six days before d1 ends so there is time to apply pressure and still go in another direction if warranted.

VOTE: Juice

Weak vote. Six days is plenty of time.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: DeltaWave

this Penguin is looking for an easy lynch - just because ive been a bit inactive

egregious #365 misrep

so far you've had a "random" vote on page 9 which just so happened to be on the largest wagon

now you do some OMGUS b/c i put pressure on you to stop lurking

and your only read is town on asuka, which is like the safest read ever

TELL ME MORE

I like the confrontational reaction from Delta here.

I was out today. I'll be able to post more this time tomorrow. In short, Deltawave has been giving some good stuff and I quite like it, enough to unvote. I think Eiralox looks worse from their back and forth and I think the "I faked a read to test reactions" is easily faked and not amazing townplay in any case. BBT is a bit sus but not enough to vote yet. I'll vote Juice because they laughed about being sussed for RVS or something and it was weird.

VOTE: Juice

I think this post is scummy - part of it is just that it feels a bit slimy? But I'm particular I don't get the eiralox read and I think the push on Juice is opportunistic and unlikely to lead to much while being a seemingly safe route for scum - I think town would be more likely to expand on the BBT read or push Eiralox harder since it's more likely to generate AI content at this stage

You may be thinking that he's limbait, but looking into his ISO, is there anything to townread

Juice

for?

I agree with the pressure on

Juice

. Or anyone from my PoE to be honest (320). One could say that the slot might not get any townier (or scummier) with pressure, but leaving these kinds of slots be is perfect for mafia, because they will never be townread, and horrible for town sorting. The game has now been going for a few good days and he's given very little.

I'll wait for the tally and then probably jump in.

Greeting just got out of a game where we basically let DWlee do nothing day 1 before replacing out, before letting Mala sit there doing nothing for almost two full gamedays. Mala was in fact scum. I can see this progression being natural and I find it null.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: DeltaWave

this Penguin is looking for an easy lynch - just because ive been a bit inactive

I'd say a little more than a bit~

VOTE: Juice

It's been five days, time to wake up and start playing

The tone of this vote bugs me a bit here. Juice is pretty obviously an "easy" vote at this point regardless of his alignment.

VOTE: Juice

Highly likely to be scum. 5 days in and 0 game solving.

Will be catching up on this properly later today.

MN2272 had 2 people who fit this bill. Both were town who eventually replaced out. LN240 had a player get a countertrain on day 1 after a few days of doing nothing. They were also town, and were being run against the member of scum who was voted off day 1. This isn't anything that makes anyone "highly likely" to be scum.

Initially I gave Juice the benefit of the doubt (late RVS??). Then the slot voted Delta which I town lean, then town reads Ausuka for no given reason.

VOTE: Juice

As for the other slots, I'm willing to give a pass since it's still D1.

This is E-1 (if I counted correctly).

Why are you giving "every other slot" a pass since it's still day 1, but putting this guy -1 with five days left on day 1?

These are your E-3 to E-1 votes. Both the E=2 and E-1 votes feel like they're trying too hard to justify voting Juice, and I don't like either of their justifications at all.


I don't generally go nitpicking at individual posts when replacing in (and frankly I'm kinda done just reading swarms of posts tonight..), so I did a bit of ISO skimming.

Hutmeil, BBT, and Hoppip are the three lowest posters in the game. They are also the three worst votes on Juice.

Hutmeil: Votes Juice in #401... And immediately gives townie posts to FK for unvoting him in #404. He doesn't explain why he does this. He then makes post #408... [Already explained this. Basically, the slot lurks but is good enough for an elim because he has voted and given his read, so we can get some info next day].
Juice
Juice had provided a single read, a single vote and nothing else. This is info? This feels like Hutmeil knowing Juice is town, planning to use him flipping town against Delta, who is also town.

#525 he effectively deflects blame for his vote on Juice onto Juice himself. He unvotes Juice when replaced, and otherwise has contributed... Very little. Both #617 and #730 for example call someone both town and scum at the same time. Reads like that are empty and just give the appearance of contributions.

BBT tunnels on Juice... A lot. Then Juice gets replaced, and BBT basically stops posting. Post #131 is very long for how little it actually contributes. He then votes Delta, and asks questions, but doesn't seem to care about the answers before voting for Juice. There's so many questions being asked in this ISO and not a lot of straight statements that aren't about Juice and/or Delta being scum.

Hoppip's interaction with Eiralox feels decent enough, although...

I appreciate that Mapuche is playing, but I'm still gonna keep my vote there for now. I don't like the other leading wagon and the vanity wagons are yuck besides hutmeil's.

Hoppip:

Hmm...

You know what, I'll vote hutmeil if Mapuche does.

Where did this come from? Not particularly a fan of this progression. Kinda feels like it's setting up a reason to bus.


I looked into Eiralox after said Hoppip interactions. Is

probably

just annoyed town being abrasive. Not a strong read.
I went into Gandhi aka the hot topic of the game: Gandhi's first post in the entire game pinged me. I feel like he's making zero effort to even try to appear like town, and it's breaking my sensors. I need more time to figure out what I think about this guy.


Interesting fact: Reading MND's ISO last for now, I see... Him noticing a lot of the same thing that I did. I feel better about Juice having been town (I disagree with the Eiralox read stated in #817, but don't have any notable objections to the others). There's 1-2 scum in BBT, Hoppip, and Hutmeil, and Delta (the guy he was voting) is town.

I've already covered a lot more material than I expected to. If someone wants me to look into something else before I go to bed, let me know. I've been writing for a long time already.

Mapuche Never Die (4): hoppip, BlueBloodedToffee, Nero Cain, Frogsterking
Greeting (3): Mohab500, Eiralox, Nuclear Gandhi
hutmeil (2): Ausuka, DeltaWave

Anyways I want current votals before I do anything, but I'm not a fan of either of these top trains. I town read one and I don't scum read the other (though I would say he feels a bit sedated in comparison to LN240, he's been VLA so it probably cancels out. I haven't gone over him thoroughly.). Juice was probably an ML, and the MND train feels like scum trying to still push it. Hoppip and BBT are still there. Hutmeil doesn't feel like he's made any attempt to scumhunt in this game at all, and is primed to jump back on MND if he gets a train under the guise of "self-preservation".

I didn't do a lot of looking into some of you yet. Like basically everyone in the world is townreading Ausuka and I kinda just ignored them for now and FK is probably an entire session on it's own.

I do want to ask people who seem like they have a strong sense of what Gandhi's alignment is

why

it is what it is at present, though. The guy feels like an enigma to me at first glance. Anyways.. At present I think Hutmeil is scum here and that Hoppip may have been fishing for an excuse to bus him should the tide turn his way. No idea what votals are though.

Ok suddenly it's almost midnight already.

[Crescent]

Oh I remember putting an unvote for Greeting down somewhere... At least I thought I did.

UNVOTE: Greeting

[Frogsterking]

Okay I'll say Gandhi/hut/? scum and Ausuka is always Town here..

[Crescent]

Oh and Hutmeil is at 5 already.

hutmeil (5): Ausuka, DeltaWave, Greeting, Mapuche Never Die, Frogsterking
Greeting (4): Crescent, Eiralox, Nuclear Gandhi, furtiveglance
Mapuche Never Die (3): hoppip, BlueBloodedToffee, Nero Cain

If I had to take a completely wild guess at this vote spread: Everyone on Hutmeil is town, which happens to include the other two vote leaders. I do need to give FK a proper dive tomorrow though.

[Frogsterking]

Oh and Hutmeil is at 5 already.

hutmeil (5): Ausuka, DeltaWave, Greeting, Mapuche Never Die, Frogsterking
Greeting (4): Crescent, Eiralox, Nuclear Gandhi, furtiveglance
Mapuche Never Die (3): hoppip, BlueBloodedToffee, Nero Cain

If I had to take a completely wild guess at this vote spread: Everyone on Hutmeil is town, which happens to include the other two vote leaders. I do need to give FK a proper dive tomorrow though.

Kill hutmeil!

[Crescent]

Okay I'll say Gandhi/hut/? scum and Ausuka is always Town here..

Yeah but why are you so certain on Gandhi?

[Frogsterking]

Okay I'll say Gandhi/hut/? scum and Ausuka is always Town here..

Yeah but why are you so certain on Gandhi?

His ISO is bad.

[Crescent]

Oh I agree his ISO is bad and I may be in a trap of "It looks so bad how could scum be this bad".

His vote on Greeting feels increasingly putrid looking at this vote spread though. He jumps third on Greeting while posting random posts from 500 posts ago, but doesn't actually call him scum. 200 posts later he's still there, and he really hasn't attempted content since.

[Frogsterking]

Oh I agree his ISO is bad and I may be in a trap of "It looks so bad how could scum be this bad".

His vote on Greeting feels increasingly putrid looking at this vote spread though. He jumps third on Greeting while posting random posts from 500 posts ago, but doesn't actually call him scum. 200 posts later he's still there, and he really hasn't attempted content since.

Yes and hutmeil must die! And Ausuka is Town!

[DeltaWave]

wow frog and i agree on something. i never thought it woiuld hapepn.

[Nero Cain]

I'm a kitty. Meow.

KILL IT WITH FIRE!

[Nero Cain]

I mean MAYBE its just something like a hut/bbt/ and one of hoppip/Eiralox and scum are doing kinda shit all but we'll see.

I sort of don't think Furt would blatantly town read his scum buddy but thats maybe a flip we could consider if the game isn't solved after ^ are flipped. Of course this all depends on hutmeil flipping scum and if he doesn't I think that raises both Furt and Ausuka's scum chances.

VOTE: hutmeil

someone should intent so he can claim and we have time to do something else if we wanted to.

[hutmeil]

I can ask you the same question regarding your comments about my play in 730.

I personally don't like people vote hopping just to pressure. If you want to pressure then ask the slot questions, make a case against him.

[hutmeil]

I guess I'm at E-1. I'll be responding in a bit so don't hammer yet!

[Ausuka]

Like basically everyone in the world is townreading Ausuka and I kinda just ignored them for now

wow rude

[Ausuka]

I sort of don't think Furt would blatantly town read his scum buddy but thats maybe a flip we could consider if the game isn't solved after ^ are flipped.

Normally, I would agree that scum are unlikely to townread hut in that way. The way he did it makes me disagree. I think I've already explained why I find it weird. It's possible that, like, Hutmeil was all in the scum PT like "please don't bus me I'll start posting more" and furtive was kind of positioning to bus and then realised he didn't want to do it. It sounds stretchy, and it's probably not exactly what happened, but the staggered way furtive posted that townread makes me think there might be ulterior motives.

[Ausuka]

Sorry Ausuka, this bullshit with MND and Gandhi needs to end today. I'm not waiting until D3 for Gandhi/MND to play like a human.

I don't really get it. Mapuche just replaced in and is broadly fine, Gandhi is basically a garden variety lurker. Sure, we could vote him out but I prefer to vote for the scummy lurker

[Ausuka]

My reads currently are

{Delta, Nero}
{Eiralox, Frog}
{Gandhi, greeting, mapuche}
{BBT, Crescent, furtive}
{hoppip}
{hutmeil}