Mini Normal 2279: VGSR - GAME OVER

[Eiralox]

i haven't seen u really push. your posts feel like content for the sake of content. hutmeil's recent reaction most likely comes from cornered town, VT, and i'm sure the flip will reflect that. which i don't want.

I mentioned earlier I actually like the composition of the greeting vote. the earlier mohab vote was golden before crescent vote. The fact that furtive and gandhi are voting with me after my earlier sus of them further indicates a good setup. I'm more certain that those on greeting are likely to be town, there has to be scum on hutmeil as I earlier stated.

[Eiralox]

*before crescent unvote

[Greeting]

I need to go now but get off hutmeil and get on Greeting.

cos if hutmeil isn't scum and greeting is the unspoken vibe i've gotten from a few players(won't mention who yet) is a dire need to draw attention away from greeting.

no way scum is just these two and hut and they are trying to hard push a Greeting wagon, right?

Eiralox

’s whole presence in the game feels disruptive. Sometimes it seems like the guy is just itching to start a nonsensical argument and other times he posts a ridiculously wrong hot take. This is my general feeling about this slot. I am fundamentally unopposed to eliminating him like, anytime.

And yeah, pushing my wagon because of one read at the end of Day 1 seems like a poor choice by

furtiveglance

. Kinda like he’s trying to exploit the momentum where he got everybody’s attention and there is time pressure to make a push on my slot in spite having a rather weak case.

[Eiralox]

i think you are scum desperate to stay alive at this point and hutmeil is your only recourse.

[Greeting]

I will not vote out

Nero Cain

now. As a matter of fact, I am unlikely to vote out

Nero Cain

at any point of the game. Inutile was my strongest townread and the slot’s successor hasn’t done anything to tarnish it, so the read is likely correct.

[Eiralox]

Anyways, this is my Day 1 final PoE.

hutmeil
hoppip
Eiralox
Mohab500

Left out

Mapuche Never Die

and

Nuclear Gandhi

because both of them produced sufficient amounts of good content.

I am happy to eliminate anyone out of these four really and

hutmeil

is a good candidate. I don't think I really need to expand on the

hutmeil

case as everything has been said. His only case was Juice, and when he got replaced, he didn't build a second one.

@

Nero Cain

: if anyone is actively lurking this game, especially since Juice's replace-out, I would say it's

hutmeil

.

This is bad. Anyone clearing gandhi and mapuche above mohab and me auto sus, first off. Someone earlier said your reads are consensus and lurker-bases(earlier ones) and this is very blatant here. The fact that hoppip and gandhi are sorta contenders to me for being town, and the fact that crescent is town, makes me feel even worse about your selections here.

In what world has gandhi produced sufficient content>????


My feel of greeting is they aren't sorting people by likelihood to be scum but by likelihood to be elimmed, which is not a town play. You don;t even mention toffee here and that's bad. Yeah i'm pretty sure: greeting isn't really curious about ppls alignmnets.

u accuse me of being disruptive but going thru ur iso, which i invite others to do, u haven't been disruptive at all. Your posts are more soft commentary than actual hunting way i read it. I feel you are worried way more about your positioning than actually solving the game.

Intent to hammer juice and now the hutmeil vote....... yep. and then mapuche better than four/five others? after u were willing to hammer there?

going for consensus townreads and then pushing places were u think the elims will be easy. i might start building a bigger case here considering hutmeil's predicament.

[Nero Cain]

I am not sure what is so scummy that I’ve done in this game.

For me it was mainly that you spent most of early game talking about your town reads and thats like really easy to do as scum. Wasn't really till 197 that you started talking about your POE.

I had felt like your RVS on Gandhi and then leaving your vote there for "pressure" was scummy.

and Ausuka is town, but my gut tells me that something's not right here.

I assumed this line was about Ausuka, was it? if not who was it about? if so what was "not right"?

Was worried that your POE was a shit ton of mislimable town and you as scum could just use POE ad nauseam to justify your votes.

I'm down with the whole "hut isn't playing to his town meta/he's not being proactive." but I don't really think you've been either. Hut is p good flip today and we can just go from there tomorrow.

[Eiralox]

on the face of it hutmeil feels town to me. any case that's 'cos meta' is auto poo-pooed by me. i don't do meta, so anyone voting hut only on 'they're not like their previous selves' is a bad vote to me. i haven't gone thru all the arguments RE: hut but on the face of it they started to feel town to me while i havent had a single moment in this game where i went 'yeah greeting can be town'

[Greeting]

I am not sure what is so scummy that I’ve done in this game.

For me it was mainly that you spent most of early game talking about your town reads and thats like really easy to do as scum. Wasn't really till 197 that you started talking about your POE.

I had felt like your RVS on Gandhi and then leaving your vote there for "pressure" was scummy.

and Ausuka is town, but my gut tells me that something's not right here.

I assumed this line was about Ausuka, was it? if not who was it about? if so what was "not right"?

Was worried that your POE was a shit ton of mislimable town and you as scum could just use POE ad nauseam to justify your votes.

I'm down with the whole "hut isn't playing to his town meta/he's not being proactive." but I don't really think you've been either. Hut is p good flip today and we can just go from there tomorrow.

I do townhunting rather than scumhunting quite often in games. Slots that can’t be townbinned in any way get in the PoE by default. It’s a matter of playstyle. And, I would say that it’s completely valid to want to eliminate the PoE and push it, if in my opinion it leads to solving the game.

197 was about

DeltaWave

. I didn’t like the way he posted, but after I questioned him, I realised that it’s probably NAI and left him out of the PoE.

And also, it was kinda a long time ago?

Oh and I’m not really sure what my town meta is, I have a lot of towngames and played differently in many of them.

[Eiralox]

Sorting.

Greeting

inutile

Ausuka

furtiveglance
BlueBloodedToffee
Frogsterking

DeltaWave

PoE:

Juice
hutmeil
hoppip
Eiralox
Mohab500
Nuclear Gandhi

greetings seems to be ignoring my posts. whatever.

This is also bad.............. wow! Compare this to greeting's 796.

The reads haven't changed, just the order! So we get intent to hammer Juice. the replaces, then 796 and............................. greetings still has the same 6 people in bottom pile, only the order is altered. so yeah I stand by what i said above. I see no solving, I see a propensity for opportunistic voting, going for eliimables while hanging onto findable town. toffee isn't in one of these lists.

I really find it curious that greeting is still looking in the same six places after all this time, hoping for the easy juice hammer, now pivoting to the hutmeil wagon.

[Eiralox]

I agree with the pressure on

Juice

. Or anyone from my PoE to be honest (320). One could say that the slot might not get any townier (or scummier) with pressure, but leaving these kinds of slots be is perfect for mafia, because they will never be townread, and horrible for town sorting. The game has now been going for a few good days and he's given very little.

I'll wait for the tally and then probably jump in.

Announcing intent to hammer Juice.

THIS.

You're not really saying juice is scum...... just that pressure is good and such slots cannot be left(I disagree.)

Sooooooooooooo............


between 382 and 462 there is no progression on your juice read. 382 you are "yeah could be scum low content slots bad to leave alive" immediately progressing to "hammer in 15 hours."

?

Only now that mapuche replaces in does that slot become harder to elim, so you adjust your 6 person sus list to have mapuche near the top again and hutmeil at bottom.

[Eiralox]

I see Juice being replaced. I guess it’s probably common sense that the replacement should be given a chance before dropping a hammer, but I see he’s no longer at E-1 so that’s fine.

I read about half of what happened in the game with a clouded mind due to tiredness, and apparently some people are scumreading me for announcing intent to hammer. Would you rather I quickhammerred when I could?

Though I townread none of these two players so kinda not sure if it’s even worth my effort to engage with this.

Another thing I saw, I think

inutile

being concerned about the day ending early. I don’t share this concern. If the slot warrants suspicion, I don’t really see the need to drag the day on to the very last minute. This point has some validity if it’s later in the game. Town could, for instance, be middle of a massclaim and someone hasn’t had the chance to claim their result (happened in Large Normal 240 which has just ended, and because of quickhammering a scummy player who turned out to be scum, town paradoxically lost). Or, if there is enough doubt about the player being scummy. But I would say that at the time when I made my last post there wasn’t much prospect of the slot getting more towny.

again the vibe....... Especially the first segment.

"I see Juice being replaced. I guess it’s probably common sense that the replacement should be given a chance before dropping a hammer, but I see he’s no longer at E-1 so that’s fine.
"

So before the hammer you had no real case for juice being scum, just..... that silent slots bad(poor reasoning). But now it's fine cos the replace is coming ant it's not at E-1? i always give replaces a chance but here you really aren't, just saying 'meh i still want this dead but I can wait'

"
Or, if there is enough doubt about the player being scummy. But I would say that at the time when I made my last post there wasn’t much prospect of the slot getting more towny.
"

yet here we are, with mapuche now at the top your six sus. Doubt? No one ever made a solid case against juice, it was just 'talk more'. It was an easy vote, an easy wagon, and i see no justification for your wish to join it. The vibe bleeds into me from the above post that you are scum, you know that juice is town, and you want to keep that elim on the table despite unfortunate mishap of replacement.

"prospect of the slot getting more towny" just pings me. as if you know that there's a good chance the replace will swing things around, so you knew juice was town.

Mapuche Never Die

is likely town. Glad the slot was replaced, otherwise I would have hammered a likely townie.

very convenient. but still mapuche is in your six sus list, slightly better now, elevated next to gandhi who you deem to have 'sufficient content'

[Eiralox]

ok i was like 80% before but now i'm really happy with a greeting elim.

[Eiralox]

There are players on MS whose posts I just usually don’t read, because my head hurts when I do (and that includes this game too). I leave sorting them to others or just try to focus on them when I really have no other choice.

and if you're going to be completely ignoring my points then I guess I'll have to push harder

[Eiralox]

it's clear to me that going with Greeting's PoE is bad for town. i see little justification for greeting's pushes, and i think the sore point of consensus raised by... was it hutmeil? is actually very valid.


so basically hoppip and gandhi awol... but whatever.

Greeting has been hiding while accusing other slots of doing jack skwat, voting them intending to hammer them. greetings reads just scream 'trying to keep safe and agreeable' to me. I've only seen real scumhunting RE: hutmeil sorta, but no not really. both wagons are very very easy so anyone jumping on with less than stellar reasoning is sus. Gretings reasoning has been....troubling. Regarding juice: 'Lurkey slots are good to kill for town early'. RE: hutmeil, i'm not even sure tbh.


Yup.

However this day goes i encourage a greeting elim at this point.

[Eiralox]

Initially I gave Juice the benefit of the doubt (late RVS??). Then the slot voted Delta which I town lean, then town reads Ausuka for no given reason.

VOTE: Juice

As for the other slots, I'm willing to give a pass since it's still D1.

This is E-1 (if I counted correctly).

this post heavily pinged me, sounded scummy. but now........ I went thru hutmeil's Iso. Conclusion: Not enough data to call scum. anyone calling hutmeil should also call bbt/hoppip. gandhi....... ugh. i trust my early gutfeels, gandhi screamed scum to me those first pages, but rn im......... mayb where crescent is at(enigmatic) but not completely cos.... gandhi sorta feels green to me and that's just insane.

so the above post.... i think this how hutmeil talks. i think hutmeil is VT. Hutmeil at least seems to have reasons for why juice(among which is: lurker, which i don't like) while greeting............. other than elimination list they've never really said exactly why juice is scum. Here hutmeil at least approaches a reasoned intent, even tho i don't wholly agree with the reasoning.

i also feel there is a game-solving intent, a progression on a scale of sussiness, between 408 and 850 for hutmeil. no such feels, no indication of solving, from greeting and their elimination lists as I've noted. Hut meil was scummy to me early on. now? VT that hung back and now engages under pressure. A bad vote........................ my gut screams to me that hutmeil should be spared.

I'd rather vote bbt or maybe... maybe hoppip tbh.

But Greeting is a pretty sure bet.

[Eiralox]

yup hutmeil very likely town. their vibes are right for it..................... please don't vote hutmeil.

[Eiralox]

Can we get off hutmeil, some bad people jumped on this.

basically this. furtive is nearing my townlocks.

[Crescent]

I'm a kitty. Meow.

KILL IT WITH FIRE!

Well, that's one scum down~


Quick Greeting ISO because he's the new hot topic and I have to drive soon:

that's a fallacy that even very seasoned mafia players make, so i'll call it a null for you. specifically, I'm referring to the idea that if you think Player A is town and Player B votes for Player A then Player B is likely mafia. makes assumptions that aren't true, and day 1 usually consists of town primarily going at each other while mafia eggs it on or hides. but like I said, even people who have played many many games make this mistake so I will call it a null for you.

I don't fully agree with this.

Casting suspicion on players who are obvtown

is

a valid scumtell.

i'm standing by my position that inutile is sus and i really don't care that it's making people scumread me. i'm not going to back off what i think is my best read right now because it's unpopular or it might get me eliminated. clearly, an inutile elimination is not going to happen right now based on how people are reading her but i don't operate on consensus like that. i truly do not understand why people see inutile as town. as i said before, if there's evidence that she always plays this way (even as town) then my tune might change but to date, nobody has done so unless I somehow missed it. you can think i'm mafia all you want but i would have picked a safer bet than this if that was the case. if you really think that mafia will wagon popular players instead of killing them at night i dont know what to tell you.

Is 67 the only reason you are sussing

intuile

?

While I think Delta is probably town, Greeting used this same logic to correctly call Unsure scum day 2 in 240. Delta doubling down like this is basically the opposite reaction that Unsure had to it as well.

Sorting.

Greeting

inutile

Ausuka

furtiveglance
BlueBloodedToffee
Frogsterking

DeltaWave

PoE:

Juice
hutmeil
hoppip
Eiralox
Mohab500
Nuclear Gandhi

This read list is odd in that Greeting decides that BBT should be out of the PoE despite BBT only having made two posts of substantive content

I honestly don’t remember why I did this. I played one game with him where I was scum, and felt threatened enough that I killed him (Newbie 2095). I probably saw the same tone as in that game and just put him into the townbin for that. I will have to check to make sure though.

BBT comes onto his townlist out of nowhere. There's no real justification for this townread on BBT in the entire ISO. This is his response when pressed, but he doesn't ever follow up on it. BBT is later absent from his POE, but no reason is ever given why.

Eiralox’s whole presence in the game feels disruptive. Sometimes it seems like the guy is just itching to start a nonsensical argument and other times he posts a ridiculously wrong hot take. This is my general feeling about this slot. I am fundamentally unopposed to eliminating him like, anytime.

Something about this bugs me. It feels like it's setting up to vote Eiralox without actually calling Eiralox scum, just "disruptive". Eiralox is someone I townread on first glance. I have two questions for Greeting after combing this ISO because I feel it lacks a good answer to either:

Why was BBT on your townlist to begin with, and what has he done to stay there?

What is your case on Eiralox? They're in your POE in 796... But you essentially said nothing about them at all until #873, and all you said was "they feel disruptive". The only interaction you even have with them is them immediately questioning your intent to hammer Juice. I don't feel like you've made a valid point to justify a vote here.

The guy I replaced being in the POE is.. "fine", given he wasn't particularly active. I wonder if I should ISO the guy I replaced, though I generally prefer not to.


I kinda feel like post #850 from Hutmeil was more fluid content than we've gotten from Greeting, and I'm more interested in seeing Greeting respond to my questions than a hammer.

[Crescent]

Oh and on a side note it nags at me a bit that FK tried to push me to vote almost immediately after replacing in and still operating under obviously incomplete information

[Mapuche Never Die]

VOTE: greeting
You know what, sure.

[Ythan]

Vote Count 1.10

hutmeil (5): Ausuka, DeltaWave, Greeting, Frogsterking, Nero Cain
Greeting (4): Eiralox, Nuclear Gandhi, furtiveglance, Mapuche Never Die
Mapuche Never Die (2): hoppip, BlueBloodedToffee

Not Voting: hutmeil, Crescent

With 13 alive it takes 7 votes to forcibly remove a player.

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-08-28 20:45:00)

Mod notes:
Your mod may be at EPCOT when deadline comes so you may get extended twilight

[Nuclear Gandhi]

I'm content with my D1 vote so..
That's my today's input.

[Crescent]

Had some time to go over Nero and.. Honestly nothing in this ISO particularly sticks out aside from theee things. He's obviously scum for wanting to kill a cat with fire, he tunnels on MND quite a bit, and I want some more elaboration on his though process with Hutmeil. In #770 he says he doesn't get the case, and in #780 he points out one specific post in the ISO and says he "could" be scum, but says the rest are fine. The next post about him is the vote at #843 puts him -1, but again it just comes with a "maybe".

The progression on him is cloudy at best and it feels like it stops short of actually calling him scum. I'd like some more clarity on this thought process.

[Crescent]

I'm content with my D1 vote so..
That's my today's input.

You voted him for next to no reason with essentially no level of certainty that he's scum. Did something change?