Large Normal 241: Random Pictures and Other Stuff | Day 8

[Ydrasse]

Like you literally nailed 3 of the 4 scum by post 600 24 hours into the game so yeah I want that energy again here and you're not giving it

Obviously some town games will be better than others but you're not even trying yet and I'm asking you to try

hehe

[Ydrasse]

eiralox votes seem wasted bcuz they arent around/going to be to engage or do anything w the pressure?

day still long return there later imo

[VP Baltar]

Also re:VPB, why not vote him then? I'd join that wagon if it got going

assuming that this is about me, why do you need him to vote me first?

Are you saying FB should vote me or I should vote FB?

also, did you think I was unaware of the fact that you're already voting FB? because this is a nonsensical question otherwise

Seems like a ridiculous thing to say in either circumstance, so all i can do is ask you to clarify. Why do you need someone else to vote me first before you vote?

[Gamma Emerald]

FB, what do you think of ari's meta defense of you?

wut?
Pretty sure Ari is doing to opposite of defending FB

VP Balter

, you gonna explain what made you think this?

[fireisredsir]

oof that is not the response i was looking for

more votes on eiralox

from reading his past games i think his play so far is entirely nai

disagree, i thought they had a much more bristle-y response to suspicion as town, especially here, which is what i was looking for

the ydra point about wasted votes for now is reasonable ig tho

[GuiltyLion]

Seems like a ridiculous thing to say in either circumstance, so all i can do is ask you to clarify. Why do you need someone else to vote me first before you vote?

mmm, "ridiculous" is quite a loaded word there. Why do you think it's ridiculous?

I don't think leaving the leading wagon to jump on a vanity wagon is good play, but if there was momentum to the point where your wagon would counter and/or eclipse Fire I would then think about switching.

[humaneatingmonkey]

eiralox votes seem wasted bcuz they arent around/going to be to engage or do anything w the pressure?

day still long return there later imo

that's what has been happening the wagon's point is to get him to talk it's been successful so far

[VP Baltar]

sure but last time you went up against me you got mislimmed. Even if you want to say that the reason you got wrecked gas nothing/very little to do with me the idea that a scum you would sit back and be less confrontational than normal makes some sense.

Not really? Shit fighting with you is super easy and if I was scum I could even do it and then play it off as a repeat of that game. That'd be like level 1 scumplay.

As opposed to town me finding that very unhelpful for the game state and doing my best to not derail into unproductive areas. If I find you scummy, you'll be the first to know.

[VP Baltar]

FB, what do you think of ari's meta defense of you?

wut?
Pretty sure Ari is doing to opposite of defending FB

VP Balter

, you gonna explain what made you think this?

Ari is definitely soft defending FB by questioning my vote there. How would you describe it?

[GuiltyLion]

Seems like a ridiculous thing to say in either circumstance, so all i can do is ask you to clarify. Why do you need someone else to vote me first before you vote?

you also didn't answer my question. Did you think I was unaware that you were voting FB?

[VP Baltar]

Seems like a ridiculous thing to say in either circumstance, so all i can do is ask you to clarify. Why do you need someone else to vote me first before you vote?

mmm, "ridiculous" is quite a loaded word there. Why do you think it's ridiculous?

I don't think leaving the leading wagon to jump on a vanity wagon is good play, but if there was momentum to the point where your wagon would counter and/or eclipse Fire I would then think about switching.

Because either you didn't see my vote or you're asking for cover to vote. It's silly either way.

If you think I scum, it's not vanity to vote me. It isn't like we are under deadline pressure.

[Aristeia]

FB, what do you think of ari's meta defense of you?

wut?
Pretty sure Ari is doing to opposite of defending FB

VP Balter

, you gonna explain what made you think this?

Ari is definitely soft defending FB by questioning my vote there. How would you describe it?

I wasn't questioning your vote

I was questioning this comment:

@vpb again i dont really know if his vote on me is indicative of 'lack of viewpoint/conviction'
(Or at least, is unusual or scum-indicative for him ...)

It's more than the vote on you. That was just an example. There doesn't seem to be much conviction from FB on anything.

like I think it's questionable to shade someone for not having conviction on anything because I don't feel like I have a lot of conviction on anything so far either because it's p early so I was wondering if you were making a general remark or if there was some observation you expected Town!FB to have made that he hasn't done yet.

even in the game that guiltylion cited - FB is more townie but his tone is mostly joking and he doesn't really show "conviction" per se in anything very early - he shows it later down the line after he's gotten more time in the game.

I don't really think of FB as someone who immediately has high conviction reads/thoughts right away - he's more of a casual throw random things around type of player.

[VP Baltar]

Seems like a ridiculous thing to say in either circumstance, so all i can do is ask you to clarify. Why do you need someone else to vote me first before you vote?

you also didn't answer my question. Did you think I was unaware that you were voting FB?

yes, seemed possible you missed the vote since your post was not entirely clear to me who you were addressing. Sorry you find that insulting, but it's a result of you saying something silly regardless.

FB, what do you think of ari's meta defense of you?

wut?
Pretty sure Ari is doing to opposite of defending FB

VP Balter

, you gonna explain what made you think this?

Ari is definitely soft defending FB by questioning my vote there. How would you describe it?

I wasn't questioning your vote

I was questioning this comment:

@vpb again i dont really know if his vote on me is indicative of 'lack of viewpoint/conviction'
(Or at least, is unusual or scum-indicative for him ...)

It's more than the vote on you. That was just an example. There doesn't seem to be much conviction from FB on anything.

like I think it's questionable to shade someone for not having conviction on anything because I don't feel like I have a lot of conviction on anything so far either because it's p early so I was wondering if you were making a general remark or if there was some observation you expected Town!FB to have made that he hasn't done yet.

even in the game that guiltylion cited - FB is more townie but his tone is mostly joking and he doesn't really show "conviction" per se in anything very early - he shows it later down the line after he's gotten more time in the game.

I don't really think of FB as someone who immediately has high conviction reads/thoughts right away - he's more of a casual throw random things around type of player.

Ok, so it was a soft defense, as I stated.

[Nero Cain]

VP, when did you start thinkng that I was town?

[GuiltyLion]

Because either you didn't see my vote or you're asking for cover to vote. It's silly either way.

If you think I scum, it's not vanity to vote me. It isn't like we are under deadline pressure.

How am I asking for cover to vote? Like what is the logic there? "If FB (the current most suspected player by vote) votes VPB, then no one will suspect me for voting after him, despite the fact that I just immediately asked FB to do that!" Do you really think that's how I would think & approach the situation as scum? Do you really think that

makes sense

??

the "vanity" is to be the only player voting you. In a Large Game, wagons are much more useful than a spread of singular votes on players. My whole philosophy to mafia play is to build consensus quickly on townreads and suspects and force people to make decisions on which of 2 or 3 competing wagons they'd support. That's how you get actual associative info and sharp game states that give more insight into what people are thinking and where their reads lie. A smorgasbord of E-9 votes doesn't create any interesting information and makes it super easy for scum to do whatever. Keeping Fire at 5+ votes, while encouraging a counterwagon that might have real momentum, is better for creating a gamestate that will generate #content

[GuiltyLion]

Sorry you find that insulting

it's not that I find it insulting at all, actually, it's that it's yet another point in the growing collection of times where you are asking incoherent questions that don't reflect much critical thought / game awareness. Like if anything, I'd say you should be the one embarrassed for asking the nonsensical question, I'm not insulted for calling it out

[Datisi]

Can I ask why you get annoyed with people pushing you? You seem kind of more frustrated than i might expect. It's to be expected as a good player to some degree isn't it?

first i don't like it. second i'm getting pushed a lot for my interactions with ari and guilty and fire, which make complete sense *to me* but it's like half the game is reading them completely differently. and it's annoying to be constantly explaining myself on points that are clear to me.

[GuiltyLion]

it's like half the game is reading them completely differently.

do you think any of the people who were suspecting/debating those interactions with you stand out as scummy?

[VP Baltar]

Do you really think that makes sense??

Do you think it makes sense to say 'you vote first and I'll join you'?

Like if your whole deal is getting numerous votes on a wagon, then the logical play is to vote first and directly ask people to join. It's backwards to be like " well let's count the votes first to make sure we have enough before we do this for real 48 hours into D1".

You're acting like I'm a dumb shit here, but you're not making any sense about how you're pursuing wagons. If you scum read me, then vote and stop being a coward about it.

Make a case even. But don't tell me it really makes sense to go to someone you maybe scum read and then seek a coalition of 2 before voting.

Pedit - you're right. I'm so dumb. Good point.

[Datisi]

it's like half the game is reading them completely differently.

do you think any of the people who were suspecting/debating those interactions with you stand out as scummy?

no, not really. i didn't get the "scum purposefully shitting up the thread by misunderstanding me" from anyone, and i also don't really see what anyone as scum *gains* from doing that. like, i don't think anyone here is fooling themselves into thinking they're gonna get me killed by doing that. at best what they gain is making the game harder to read, and ehh. don't get the feeling anyone was doing that either.

[Datisi]

i had a fun theory of guilty and baltar being scum/scum, but i'm starting to think i was wrong on it and i'm sad now

actually no, guilty does theater w buddies early, nvm, tinfoil saved

[Firebringer]

Like you literally nailed 3 of the 4 scum by post 600 24 hours into the game so yeah I want that energy again here and you're not giving it

Obviously some town games will be better than others but you're not even trying yet and I'm asking you to try

my friend, if you think im scum because im not trying or doing anything please continue voting me.
If you are voting me and trying to argue with me to try to get engage me in the game. You are going to be left disappointed.

I understand you want me to do more. I will, at my pace and when the game gets me to that zone. You can't force it you are just going to get me mad and annoyed at you and then we will argue for pages eating up game space in which you could actually be doing something productive you want to do.

[VP Baltar]

VP, when did you start thinkng that I was town?

Part of it is cumulative vibes from you being an asshat, which is consistent with my town experience with you obv. (Though certainly fakeable)

For example, your fight with ari seemed absolutely unnecessary.

I also remember feeling better about you when you said something about HEM's list being kind of wishy washy, because that was my same gut reaction when I read it.

[GuiltyLion]

Do you think it makes sense to say 'you vote first and I'll join you'?

Like if your whole deal is getting numerous votes on a wagon, then the logical play is to vote first and directly ask people to join. It's backwards to be like " well let's count the votes first to make sure we have enough before we do this for real 48 hours into D1".

You're acting like I'm a dumb shit here, but you're not making any sense about how you're pursuing wagons. If you scum read me, then vote and stop being a coward about it.

Make a case even. But don't tell me it really makes sense to go to someone you maybe scum read and then seek a coalition of 2 before voting.

Pedit - you're right. I'm so dumb. Good point.

no, the logical play is to

stay on the existing wagon so as not to defuse it

until people who AREN'T on that wagon coalesce elsewhere, and then evaluate which wagon I'd prefer at that point.

Here is an example from a recent game of me making the same point with HEM, so you can tell it's an earnest belief of mine. jumping off a leading wagon to vote a different scumread is bad play

here's an example of me calling out a player (who turned out to be scum) for doing that.

I'm pretty sure I could find other examples too but these was the first I recalled

It is dumb to assume that I wasn't aware you were voting the same wagon, yes! If you are town and you don't want me to call your questions dumb (and while I think it was a dumb question, that does not mean I think you are dumb), maybe take a sec to evaluate some of your assumptions ("is GL asking me to vote FB when I'm already voting him and was doing so even before GL?") before firing hot take questions so I can see that you're putting thought into why you're posting what you're posting. Cause right now I don't see that and it makes it hard to see you as town

[fireisredsir]

i feel like i had an actually kinda good point on eiralox and got zero engagement on it

idk if that's meaningful or not

maybe it means nobody else thinks it was a good point. or maybe it means nobody is more aware than normal about pushes on eiralox bc nobody here is partnered with them. idk

also this GL vs VP thing is super uninteresting to me, maybe datisi is right