Large Normal 241: Random Pictures and Other Stuff | Day 8

[humaneatingmonkey]

talking to me about datisi

So Datisi makes no attempt to pressure my slot even though he admits it's scummy, and didn't attempt to parse even further when prompted by Nero. No hot takes and no solves, just unproductive questions thus far.
Ari frames her narrative that she "forced" her readslist and pretends it's the scummiest thing to notice that it's bullshit and OMGUSes me.

I don't see how these slots could be town.

So Datisi makes no attempt to pressure my slot even though he admits it's scummy, and didn't attempt to parse even further when prompted by Nero. No hot takes and no solves, just unproductive questions thus far.

this is like, one of those times where i want to ask - what do you expect me to pressure you about? your slot is scummy because you dropped into the game, made a pretty much meme push on me, threw weak questions at ari, and left when she voted you. there is nothing to parse there, you and i both know that you're a better scum player than that, so it's not like i can actually draw a "well he's scum completely fucking up the game, gg" conclusion from that. and the only possible pressure i can put on you is general "what are your reads", which like. i find more value in seeing what you come up with yourself than what you come up with if i'm yelling at you about it.

Content to just push on players who are getting attention thrown their way and I haven't really gotten the impression that it's a town tell of "Pressuring for information" from them.

i have seriously pushed two (2) people, only one of which could even be classified as someone getting attention their way (and even then i was the first to pressure them!) so this is a bunch of bullshit

why is it not noob town trying to scumhunt?

tell me you didn't understand my post without telling me - because town, noob or otherwise, isn't capable of getting cognitively overloaded. andeven if it were a reaction test, noob town isn't gonna do such a complex reaction test. and deasvail isn't a noob. so like what is the point of this question.

Datisi hasn't pressured me actually. Which makes me suspicious because if Datisi remembers me as the one who "ripped through town" in that one game, then he must have due cause to pressure me. Also, when prompted by Nero, he gave up assessing my meta at the mere sight of the word "daddy". I believe Datisi would have spent some proper time sorting me. Datisi is also bolder to announce his reads, however bad. He also tries to create a townblock in my experience. That doesn't happen here. His participation does not influence this game, which is pinging my bottom.

oh bOY WHEre to start

there is nothing to pressure you on. i remember you as a good scum player, yes. so when i see a good scum player shitting the bed, that doesn't make me wanna pressure them, that makes me wanna leave them alone to see what is up. and you had no substance for me to pressure you over anyway.

i don't do second-hand meta, i've said this many times in prior games. i never intended to actually read your iso there or whatever, i just opened it because i bored and wanted to see if anything interesting would catch my attention. the beginning of your iso did. so i made a funny post about it. then i lost interest in it.

have i not been announcing my reads? and like, "he tries to create a townblock and he's not doing that here" is kinda bad reasoning because we played 2 micro blitz games like 2 years ago, where i wasn't constantly getting shit on from the get-go. do you think that maybe, just maybe, any of those factors influence the way i play? of course you don't, you jumped to "datisi scum" because you need some bullshit to push

I assume Datisi is able to create a townblock because that's how i remember his playstyle in early games.

9-player games
that had a 3-day deadline
where i wasn't getting constantly shit on right out of the gate

bruh

this is how he responded to me before and i want you to take a look at it. also with the way he addressed it in the mafia pt. whats ur take

[humaneatingmonkey]

oops sorry wall

[humaneatingmonkey]

Regarding the Datisi townread, when I've seen Datisi stressed as scum it has come across more subtly than posts such as 308, which seems to more obviously communicate him being annoyed. 311 and 529 and 540 continue to focus on being misunderstood on a single thing. I think Datisi as scum in this instance would compensate by trying to look town in other ways rather than be fixated on righting this one wrong - (reason for this is that people are generally not going to "like" the fact that Datisi continues to try defending this one point even though imo it's more townie than scummy depending on the player)

i asked because it seems like you have better experience reading Datisi and seem to think his response to pressure earlier was not a pattern you know from his scum game

[Gamma Emerald]

GE I answered you I think you missed it

I don’t see it unless you missed one of my responses

[DeasVail]

talking to me about datisi

So Datisi makes no attempt to pressure my slot even though he admits it's scummy, and didn't attempt to parse even further when prompted by Nero. No hot takes and no solves, just unproductive questions thus far.
Ari frames her narrative that she "forced" her readslist and pretends it's the scummiest thing to notice that it's bullshit and OMGUSes me.

I don't see how these slots could be town.

So Datisi makes no attempt to pressure my slot even though he admits it's scummy, and didn't attempt to parse even further when prompted by Nero. No hot takes and no solves, just unproductive questions thus far.

this is like, one of those times where i want to ask - what do you expect me to pressure you about? your slot is scummy because you dropped into the game, made a pretty much meme push on me, threw weak questions at ari, and left when she voted you. there is nothing to parse there, you and i both know that you're a better scum player than that, so it's not like i can actually draw a "well he's scum completely fucking up the game, gg" conclusion from that. and the only possible pressure i can put on you is general "what are your reads", which like. i find more value in seeing what you come up with yourself than what you come up with if i'm yelling at you about it.

Content to just push on players who are getting attention thrown their way and I haven't really gotten the impression that it's a town tell of "Pressuring for information" from them.

i have seriously pushed two (2) people, only one of which could even be classified as someone getting attention their way (and even then i was the first to pressure them!) so this is a bunch of bullshit

why is it not noob town trying to scumhunt?

tell me you didn't understand my post without telling me - because town, noob or otherwise, isn't capable of getting cognitively overloaded. andeven if it were a reaction test, noob town isn't gonna do such a complex reaction test. and deasvail isn't a noob. so like what is the point of this question.

Datisi hasn't pressured me actually. Which makes me suspicious because if Datisi remembers me as the one who "ripped through town" in that one game, then he must have due cause to pressure me. Also, when prompted by Nero, he gave up assessing my meta at the mere sight of the word "daddy". I believe Datisi would have spent some proper time sorting me. Datisi is also bolder to announce his reads, however bad. He also tries to create a townblock in my experience. That doesn't happen here. His participation does not influence this game, which is pinging my bottom.

oh bOY WHEre to start

there is nothing to pressure you on. i remember you as a good scum player, yes. so when i see a good scum player shitting the bed, that doesn't make me wanna pressure them, that makes me wanna leave them alone to see what is up. and you had no substance for me to pressure you over anyway.

i don't do second-hand meta, i've said this many times in prior games. i never intended to actually read your iso there or whatever, i just opened it because i bored and wanted to see if anything interesting would catch my attention. the beginning of your iso did. so i made a funny post about it. then i lost interest in it.

have i not been announcing my reads? and like, "he tries to create a townblock and he's not doing that here" is kinda bad reasoning because we played 2 micro blitz games like 2 years ago, where i wasn't constantly getting shit on from the get-go. do you think that maybe, just maybe, any of those factors influence the way i play? of course you don't, you jumped to "datisi scum" because you need some bullshit to push

I assume Datisi is able to create a townblock because that's how i remember his playstyle in early games.

9-player games
that had a 3-day deadline
where i wasn't getting constantly shit on right out of the gate

bruh

this is how he responded to me before and i want you to take a look at it. also with the way he addressed it in the mafia pt. whats ur take

I think that datisi's response to you in the Go game is quite different from how he is here.

I also am definitely overstating my ability to read Datisi, but I remember thinking in the Go game that he seemed more on edge and wish that I had followed up that suspicion at the time rather than letting it slide. Part of my thinking here is that I think the posts you quote above from that game are actually examples of Datisi trying harder to be read as town than he is here.

[DeasVail]

that people are town reading you? mostly eh...but maybe a little upset b/c I think you are fairly scummy.


It's also a little funny b/c aren't all the town reads on you for basically the same reason?

that is true now that you mention it

[GuiltyLion]

The part I've bolded also feels like cheap shade. I provided your suspicion on Firebringer as an example as well and I still think your progression on Firebringer rings hollow, as if you're pretending to care about it more than you are (see: you telling FB that they should do more or there will be problems, as you move your vote to Eiralox)

I'm not trying to shade you, I'm trying to tell you directly that I don't like reading things like my reasoning is "hollow" or that I'm "pretending to care", because I don't see how I can meaningfully address those accusations or engage with you on them. You have either disregarded or ignored a whole wealth of other reads & opinions I've given to hone in on two you didn't like, which is additionally frustrating because the one on you was literally just me trying to give thoughts on a post prompted by HEM

and again going back to the original post, I agreed with fireisred's take, it's enough for a light town lean on you, but not so strong a town lean that I was trying to advocate for it in the thread beyond just answering HEM what I thought of that post. it doesn't mean I've sorted you as town, I just have several other players I see as higher priority to deal with right now and nothing I particularly wanted to ask or talk with you about. I don't think you've done anything scummy, but in those posts I was replying to you were talking about me instead of at me, I don't know what I can do to advance forward other than just kinda ignore your suspicion (and now) vote on me. THAT'S what I don't like.

what's missing from me here that you think you would see from me as town that would demonstrate that I "care"? does it not change anything for you re:my Fire push/vote in considering that last time I played with him he was fairly immediately solvey, obvtown, and one of the few voices of sanity in that game?

[GuiltyLion]

GL's approach to reads so far feels more surface-level than I expect GL's reads to be. In a few cases he appears to only really pick one thing out and base a read around that rather than considering the player as a whole, which I think could be a scum approach.
Example Scum mindset: Find good material -> form read
Town mindset: Consider player in question -> What alignment do I think they are and why?

The most prominent examples for GL imo are his dismissive not-scum-read of me and 953 on Firebringer.

like, assume that I'm town for a sec, what do you actually expect from me to say in reply to this to help you read me correctly?

and if you don't want me to talk to you directly, why does it feel like you've ignored 90% of my other thoughts and reads? I can understand not liking my Fire vote, I can't really grok why you care so much about my reply to HEM on you or why you have seemingly nothing to say about anything else I've said, especially if you're now voting me

[GuiltyLion]

(see: you telling FB that they should do more or there will be problems, as you move your vote to Eiralox)

also on this, FB's last post basically made it clear that he wasn't going to do anything productive in response to the wagon or me asking him to do so. That doesn't change my view of him and I'll happily jump back on if more people vote there, but it does risk stalling the game and I'm willing to sheep onto Eiralox in hopes of forming a more useful wagon there

[GuiltyLion]

actually DV how about let me ask you about this - you previously had FB as a scum suspect but not Eirolox, but also said you weren't comfortable enough yet to vote/push any of your suspects.

A) are you townreading Eirolox
B) Are you now saying by voting me that you're more confident that I am scum than you are on either of them?

[Nero Cain]

DV this reminds me of the last thing I played with him but for the life of me I can't remember what his alignment was so once I look it back up, I figure out if that means he's scum or not.

this feels like the deasvail i’ve played w before so town

I thought there was at least one other person that had a similar reason. Apparently, it's not fireisred who is town reading you but I don't know why but I thought it was.

Of course, if you are scum then you don't care about the reasons why you are being townread but the reads on you seem to be mostly based on a previous game and not necessarily for anything you've done here. I don't think most people have talked about you or given a read.

[Nero Cain]

VP, when did you start thinkng that I was town?

Part of it is cumulative vibes from you being an asshat, which is consistent with my town experience with you obv. (Though certainly fakeable)

For example, your fight with ari seemed absolutely unnecessary.

I also remember feeling better about you when you said something about HEM's list being kind of wishy washy, because that was my same gut reaction when I read it.

I feel I've gotten this reputation as some grumpy old man that's an asshole to everyone. While true to an extent I don't think I go above and beyond what is reasonable for this game or treat ppl differently than they treat me. This game is also going to be lowkey toxic as long as there's a dayphase that's not just random votes and claiming night actions.

I skimmed my ISO in our last game and I know I said something like "your posts are laughable." which yeah, its kinda rude but I don't see that as fundamentally different than Ari calling me a bad player or you talking down to me last game.

I would feel better if you had actually called out HEM in thread instead of retroactively agreeing with me. Or did you call it out, I just don't really remember you doing it.

[humaneatingmonkey]

how is my list wishy washy again?

[Aristeia]

saying someone has a bad read is not the same thing as saying someone is a bad player.

I have bad reads too. most people do. they can't all be bangers.

[Nero Cain]

how is my list wishy washy again?

your list was nothing but town reads and POE. Why no scum reads?

[humaneatingmonkey]

i absolutely have scum reads

[scamper]

re: eiralox, my impression of him from looing at his other games is that hes slow to form reads and i wuld sort of expect him to struggle in a game like this regardless of alignment. i dont think the tone in response to being voted is inherently ai and hes kind of a predictable/default kill in a high posting game with more well known players.


i dont think the reasons given for him being scum are, like, especially damning but wouldnt be shocked if he was scum, its just not that interesting to me rn. either he starts contributing eventually or he doesnt and he dies.

[VP Baltar]

I would feel better if you had actually called out HEM in thread instead of retroactively agreeing with me. Or did you call it out, I just don't really remember you doing it.

I didn't call it out at the time because I'm skimming along while I work and just repeating stuff other people have said isn't super useful.

As far as the attitude stuff, I can be a prickly person too! It's definitely not all on you. As much as I joke, I do want to avoid toxic fights if possible because it's probably good to be a grown up. Sometimes I think you intentionally make insults, but I think it's also maybe just your playstyle to try and get reax.


@ HEM - for me it's just like, why even put out a list if like 75% is just saying "poe". I'd probably just say "I'm TRing this person. Or so and so is scummy"

It looks like busy work to post a full list that is just meh.

[Nero Cain]

FTR this is the list I called out

Ausuka - likely town
scamper - poe
Juice - waiting for arrival
Datisi - poe
humaneatingmonkey - town ofc
Aristeia - poe
Firebringer - pending to mid-game
Gamma Emerald - pending read on me
Nero Cain - poe
Eiralox - poe
fireisredsir - probably town
GuiltyLion - poe
VP Baltar - poe
marcistar - probably town
xofelf - likely town
skitter30 - likely town
Irrelephant11 - likely town
ydrasse - pending read on early game
Dunnstral - waiting
DeasVail - pending question on datisi townread

I don't really know whats changed-are the POE your scumreads?

[humaneatingmonkey]

my poe are scumreads and people i haven't townread yet

I've since come around on GL and ydrasse

[GuiltyLion]

It looks like busy work to post a full list that is just meh.

what do you think of the fact that he invited me to have a discussion with him on it where he prompted me to consider his reasons for townreading xofelf, marci

I don't think the list was meh at all I think removing a number of those slots from the POE, especially some that aren't yet consensus, is more useful than a lot of what everyone else is doing

[Datisi]

hem, can you eli5 how you think my responses to you think game is similar to my responses to you in that scumgame? i wanna address it tomorrow and i don't really get it, and i don't wanna be putting words in your mouth

[Nero Cain]

come around to?

[humaneatingmonkey]

i don't remember what the context was of that game

and if that's the large where i was scum, possible i was just talking out of my ass anyway

yeah you did. that's why i noted it.

when i scumread you, you dismissed me coldly like who am i to have a metaread on you i haven't known you in years.
the same coldness i felt when you said im boring you by engaging you

Datisi do you identify as someone who would play like how i said i expected you to. the withhold read and ask question type.

in a game where i scumread you for not having a solvy spirit, you dismissed it as "that was 2 years ago i've changed" so maybe you can give me a picture of who you have become as a fully post-adolescent cute boy.

i also have that from datisi because this is exactly the same treatment i received when i suspected him early game from a game he doesn't remember anymore.

wait what do you mean in 922, like scum!Datisi did the same thing in a past game so you're suspecting him for that? It's not clear what "I also have that from datisi" means

scum!datisi played the same card with me in a past game where i caught him early for not being solvy. down to trying to prick me by deflating my ego.

too lazy to rephrase so here are posts where we talked about it

[humaneatingmonkey]

come around to?

town

GL walked back a "cop crumb" and i think scum who would have dropped something like that would have made it more ambiguous or walked back on it later in the game.

Ydrasse is a "sharp" and "fun" Ydrasse and not a "blurry" and "stressed" Ydrasse and i think that makes it more likely that she's town. i wish there's better way to articulate that. my reservation was i thought she was bullshitting the early reaction test. i dismissed the train of thought because her explanation seemed plausible.