Large Normal 241: Random Pictures and Other Stuff | Day 8

[Gamma Emerald]

ydra town ez

[Nero Cain]

something something if fire ever flips mafia guiltylion's a wolf

why would redfire flip mafia but GL flip wolf?

[scamper]

sounds like a u problem and not a me problem. i have been deliberately a bit limited in my involvement but i think i should be readable as town anyway

What have you done that only comes from town you?

1289 and 1291, for one thing

but aside from that: while realistically the answer is "not a ton" because i try to minimize divergence in my play, ive been more focused on analyzing things this game rather than trying to look town like i would be as scum. i also dont ever try to intervene in the ausuka/marci feud here as scum, even if ultimately people conclude that its tvt letting it disrupt the thread as long as possible is pro-scum. i literally used marci overreacting to pressure in 2276 to win the game as scum which is why i was so sensitive to it here. as town im always going to be trying to clear slots i would otherwise be looking to eliminate as scum and i think thats evident in how im reading people here

[xofelf]

Falling behind, had some specific thoughts, and goals for people to iso to unblend them from everybody else tomorrow. I've got some brand new pain meds to try making existing be less garbage, and I'm hopeful I'll accomplish more then.

To keep me accountable as well as my own notes, I wanna iso:
scamper
Ausuka
fireisredsir
humaneatingmonkey

I also would love to hear more from Dunnstral as that's somebody I've played before so I have past gut to compare to.

[DeasVail]

because I don't see how I can meaningfully address those accusations or engage with you on them.

scamper, let me into your head a bit, why did you feel compelled to respond to my case on you?

hmmm

The second quote would indicate that you don't see it as a necessary thing for someone to respond to accusations, so why are you then complaining about not being able to address my accusations?

[GuiltyLion]

eh, I guess I'm a hypocrite and my engagement with thread is somewhat oriented around my experience in it

that's fair enough. I think mostly I want to have a sense that you're actually paying attention to my other posts and reads that you haven't been commenting on. when you say I'm 'surface-level' or 'pretending', but only zeroing in on a select few things it rubs me the wrong way. like I feel I have given at least some pretty nuanced takes and it feels like you are willfully ignoring those

[GuiltyLion]

and it felt like you ignored the context of my fire vote switch in 1243

I'm too tired to make the argument now but earlier I was thinking me moving my vote off of Fire should indicate

more

care about the game, not less

as scum there's really not much of a need to do that

but I was picking up that my vote was not actually generating useful information like I wanted and I was open to an alternative

[GuiltyLion]

I think maybe if you are town you have an idea that town!me should be really invested in pushing my top scumread or whatever

that's not really my m.o., especially on D1, I'm more interested in getting decent townreads and I'll shamelessly votehop around anyone I'm not townreading if it means a larger wagon

[DeasVail]

In response to GL's questions

what's missing from me here that you think you would see from me as town that would demonstrate that I "care"?

I think I've explained that the process behind the development of your reads appears to be based on superficialities rather than deeper thought. I chose the examples I did because Firebringer had appeared to be your biggest scumread and a read on me is more likely for me to engage on. You say that I've disregarded your other posts but I can assure you that I haven't.

For further clarity, I think the below quote

Fire I am willing to put a pause on you for now but I am taking you at your word that you are going to start actually doing real & useful things at some point and if you don't we are gonna have issues my man

Is more fit to the purpose of demonstrating that you still care about your Firebringer read, than actually achieving something useful for you as town. If Firebringer is scum, they're going to act like scum. If they're busy, then they're going to be busy. It just seems weird to make a threat like that, unless it's to make your switch to Eiralox look better.

--

like, assume that I'm town for a sec, what do you actually expect from me to say in reply to this to help you read me correctly?

I think the actual content of replies to suspicion is not very useful. I planned to progress my read of you based on

how

you replied and also just further general observations of your play. The barrage of complaints doesn't really make me feel better about your alignment being town. Either you think I'm scum (which is not reallly the impression I'm getting), in which case what's the point in complaining, or you think I'm wrong town, in which case from your perspective you shouldn't have much to worry about because surely you'll convince me that you're town with your play over time, right?

A) are you townreading Eirolox
B) Are you now saying by voting me that you're more confident that I am scum than you are on either of them?

Yes, I had a very mild townread on Eiralox after their HEM vote. It seemed unusual for scum to make a vote without saying anything long after two previous posts of non-content. I don't really stand strongly by this thought and can't argue against people saying that they seem different from previous games as town, but I feel more confident in you being scum because at this point I could really just see Eiralox's alignment flipping either way. I don't have much reason to believe FB is town but I think their less involved play is just as easily explained by them being busy rather than scum.

--

In response to your more recent posts, I think the zeroing in is inevitable because I was hardly going to be talking about all of your posts. I also am sure that you can come up with some nuanced takes as scum, but there isn't anything in your play that makes me read you as town, and so the things that I find concerning have more weight.

Another interesting thing is that skitter's multiple posts about you feeling off was also suspicion that you couldn't respond to/engage with and yet your complaints are about me.

[DeasVail]

I think maybe if you are town you have an idea that town!me should be really invested in pushing my top scumread or whatever

that is definitely not my thought

the switch was only suspicious because you needed to threaten firebringer in the process

[GuiltyLion]

you think I'm wrong town, in which case from your perspective you shouldn't have much to worry about because surely you'll convince me that you're town with your play over time, right?

that's where my complaints are coming from though, I think, if you're neither asking me direct questions nor engaging with the totality of my posts and ISO then I don't know how to trust you're actually evaluating me fairly or in a way where this outcome has a real chance of happening

Another interesting thing is that skitter's multiple posts about you feeling off was also suspicion that you couldn't respond to/engage with and yet your complaints are about me.

I trust skitter to lock horns with me though and talk through her issues with me. she's almost the opposite from how you have been playing, if she's scumreading someone she comments on every little thing and really inserts herself

[GuiltyLion]

the switch was only suspicious because you needed to threaten firebringer in the process

well yeah, because I'm still wholly unimpressed (bordering on disappointed) with him and I still want him to actually do things I can work with.

this actually makes me feel better about you lol, I didn't realize this specifically was what your issue with that was

[GuiltyLion]

Another interesting thing is that skitter's multiple posts about you feeling off was also suspicion that you couldn't respond to/engage with

also I did engage with skitter? several times 888, 904, 908, 1107

[DeasVail]

Another interesting thing is that skitter's multiple posts about you feeling off was also suspicion that you couldn't respond to/engage with

also I did engage with skitter? several times 888, 904, 908, 1107

I had missed 888 and skitter's engagement with you prior to that, apologies.

[DeasVail]

I don't feel satsified, but there's nothing more I want to explore right now. I'll need to sit on the read and see if I still the same way after that.

Happy to engage on anything that you/anyone else needs from me though

[GuiltyLion]

It's cool, I'm feeling a bit less kerfuffled by you now and this may risk sounding like scummy bravado but I'm feeling more secure than I was earlier that this won't be a game long Issue after this lil back and forth

I'd be curious for if you have any takes on scampers case on Irrelephant. I think your TR on Eiralox is premature but I'm mostly just waiting for Eiralox to come to thread

[DeasVail]

It's cool, I'm feeling a bit less kerfuffled by you now and this may risk sounding like scummy bravado but I'm feeling more secure than I was earlier that this won't be a game long Issue after this lil back and forth

I'd be curious for if you have any takes on scampers case on Irrelephant. I think your TR on Eiralox is premature but I'm mostly just waiting for Eiralox to come to thread

I think it's a good case though I don't agree with the outcome. The most compelling part of it for me is 571.

[Nero Cain]

i think the way he backed off on his scumread of you was towny because it felt like he was really evaluating your push back against him.

I know you'll disagree with me and think its silly of me to even entertain the idea but what if he's just scum that couldn't maintain a push on me? I think I get shit pushed by scum fairly often. Like I just don't believe that he was honestly scumreading me for 243. 968 felt like a non sequitur and it was disappointing that he couldn't/wouldn't state these other reasons he had. I also really didn't like his complaint about me not engaging with elf more. They said their piece and they'd get back to me on their DV read and there wasn't really a need for me to continue to push there until they got back. So I thought that was a fairly silly comment to make.

Obviously, town do reset but de-escalation is a thing. I kinda think that town are more likely to be confident or more tunnely with their pushes so I'm not sure if I really buy into the "town are going to be more liely to reset." (I know you maybe aren't making that exact argument but its pretty close. Or are you saying that resetting is towny SPECIFICALLY for DV?) There wasn't going to be enough traction on me and DV would have to stich his neck out and I'm not sure if he'd do that.

I'll give it a look over at somepoint but in our last game where he pushed me as scum (we were both town) he didn't reset despite my pushback.

and he looks like hes authentically trying to scumhunt.

I'm not overlywhelmed. His main push has been on town (me). And I just don't see him doing a whole lot. Like obviously he's given some reasoning but it always seems so after the fact.

Juice, HEM, Aristeia, Firebringer, Gamma, GuiltyLion, Skitter, VP Baltar

Most of these have been fairly popular reads but I guess most people will have popular reads. Still, I think there's plenty of potential scum motivation to have popular reads.

Juice is an absent slot and an ez push to make as scum and silly in a way.
hasn't talked about HEM.
or Skitter. and Skitter is largely absent from the thread.
he did say that FB was a decent vote but I don't think he's ever really talked about him.

So it sorta feels like he's just trying to keep clean and not get his hands dirty. I know he's saying that he has time restraints but I'd like to hear him talk more about his scum reads and I don't particularly love his cases on Ari, VP or GL.

I'd like to hear his stuff on Gamma.

[Datisi]

okay, i am awake, i am rested, i have quit my shitty job, let's see what is happening in this game

first thing that i wanna address is hem's 1273, and the posts related to it. from what i can gather, the similarities are that i'm dismissing your earlier read on me as invalid for ~reasons~, and i'm trying to discourage it by calling the conversation boring.

i think the problem is that you made a connection with one singular thing i did this game that's not what you'd expect of me, and then made the callback to that other game. because, like i said before, i to the ask-questions-make-reads-later pattern, *but* the thing that i noticed about ari at first, i figured it's not actually that good of a basis for making reads. this isn't uncommon to me, i often ask q's and then seemingly "ignore" the response because i realized that it doesn't actually give me anything. a similar thing happened here, except i had that realization in the middle of typing the thing.

i do see why you'd think the latter part, though. because i definitely *was* trying to end that conversation. fmpov, you were harping on about a minor point that was not correct, and i had explained why it's not correct, and you were not buying it despite me explaining already. and the only thing i can do in that moment is explain it again, which probably won't do anything. and that's boring. maybe "boring" isn't the exactly right word, the more accurate feeling would be "can we PLEASE be doing something other than this".

having said all of that, i can understand why you'd draw parallels of my play here with my play that game, so. and i kind of like you'd made that parallel, i think.

[Datisi]

i have conflicting thoughts on firebringer. my first thought is that saying "i'm not into this game yet!" is very easy to do as scum. my second thought is that it utterly fucking sucks when you're not into the game yet and people are shitting on you for not being into the game. so i guess the two cancel out. sad.

[Nero Cain]

I told you to make time to play but I didn't expect you to go nuclear and quit your job.

[Datisi]

i feel like i had an actually kinda good point on eiralox and got zero engagement on it

idk if that's meaningful or not

maybe it means nobody else thinks it was a good point. or maybe it means nobody is more aware than normal about pushes on eiralox bc nobody here is partnered with them. idk

also this GL vs VP thing is super uninteresting to me, maybe datisi is right

i only looked at it now. i like it. i'm a little wary of pushes like that bc it reminds me of mala in frienemies, were she had a vastly different reaction from game to game and ended up dying for it. but it is a good starting point, i think. i do wanna see what eira says when they're back.

also i am always right obviously

nd his trajectory from joking that he should shitfight with Nero (1125) to then saying he's less likely to do that as town (1207). like the implication that he's being useful by avoiding "unhelpful" fights feels a bit LAMISTy to me, but I'm not fully decided. what do you think

ok i know i was half joking in my "hehe theatre" but bro idk if it's a joke anymore. ik this is not aimed at me, but this part feels like scum tmi-ing their buddy and seeing everything they do as scummy. because like, the first post was obviously a joke. like there is no discernible universe where "datisi, you and i should shitfight with nero" is anything other than a joke because obviously that would achieve nothing. so i don't see why his "trajectory" there matters. also i feel like i have seen baltar use "if i were scum i would xyz" stuff here and there as town, so this might be slightly meta coloured but it feels like such a weird thing to be nitpicking about.

ALSO this whole positioning about baltar feels like. "yes i am voting other people. baltar is scummy tho. like totally scunmmy. but im not. voting there. hehe. like i theoretically COULD but i am not but he's totally scummy heheheheheheheheh"

[Datisi]

I told you to make time to play but I didn't expect you to go nuclear and quit your job.

i told my manager i was quitting my job two weeks ago, but it's funnier if you imagine i quit it because i had to make time to play mafia

(i am not yet that insane though)

[DeasVail]

I'll give it a look over at somepoint but in our last game where he pushed me as scum (we were both town) he didn't reset despite my pushback.

huh?

[Datisi]

(see: you telling FB that they should do more or there will be problems, as you move your vote to Eiralox)

mmm
@guiltylion, isn't one of the tells that you used to catch scum at some point like, when they say "i am suspecting x but i wanna see [thing that would make me no longer suspect x]" or something along those lines? like when they telegraph what they are looking for?

ok i know this isn't exactly the same bc you had already said why you're suspecting warmpupper
still
idk