Large Normal 241: Random Pictures and Other Stuff | Day 8

[Gamma Emerald]

When have you caught me before, with the exception of LN239?

[Nero Cain]

I've caught you in several games. Wich ones the were I don't specifically remember but I know I have so...

[Nero Cain]

but on a more serious note, (for better or worse) it feels like we are getting close to deciding on ending the day in a con or dann vote and apparently we are all doing reads lists to compare where we are all at at you not really wanting to provide us with your reads is

[Ausuka]

I'm just goofin' around. remember jokey Nero is scum Nero.

I mean are we close to ending the day? We have plenty of time and while in principle I am 100% fine with ending the day early I think the main suspects have only replaced in recently and should be given more time?

[Ausuka]

I hate it when I accidentally q+ things

[Nero Cain]

because we semi-recently played a game with 19 players and 5 scum

FTR I forgot about it being *5 scum. It was actually 4 scum and a traitor.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=86404 was 4 scum and 2 traitors in a 21.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=85512 has 4 team scum/1 sk/20 players

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=83940 5 scum in a 21

Maybe it's somewhat outdated and things have changed throughout the years but I generally think 5 scum has been reserved for 21 player games. I think the above games still generally follow that principle with a traitor or a sk as the 5th scum. It's maybe not a super important point as we know that this game will be at least 4 scum so if this game isn;t over after 4 then we know there's a 5th

[Gamma Emerald]

but on a more serious note, (for better or worse) it feels like we are getting close to deciding on ending the day in a con or dann vote and apparently we are all doing reads lists to compare where we are all at at you not really wanting to provide us with your reads is

I could post my thoughts as they are at this exact moment but I think some refinements could be done first
There’s only a few slots I feel like need more examination though

[Nero Cain]

I could post my thoughts as they are at this exact moment but I think some refinements could be done first

are you could just do the town thing and post unfiltered thoughts? If you need to do some rereading or something you can update them later.

[VP Baltar]

Realizing I only have an hour or so to mafia because I need to make a dish for a dinner party tonight, so I'm going to start my catch up ISOing the leading wagons instead of going back like 25 pages or wherever I fell off paying attention. I'll start with conman.

Conman:

Opening serious vote on Datisi is kind of whatever. Not wowing me, but tisi was a little scummy early on, so I don't see it as AI.

GuiltyLion's attack on Mick of "couple" vs 15 is

Conman flips on a FB initial scumread saying FB got more serious after prodding. I can't really assess FB's transition since I haven't read it, but strikes me as a bit of an odd thing to townread over. Couldn't scum just as easily take pressure as reason to get serious?

although CMM I do want to know who those other people are still

OK I read back some and ISOd some folks
I think there's scum in:
Ari, marci, the eira slot, frog, firered
I need to read marci's iso because it was all incidental stuff from reading other folks'.
I think your push on FB is wrong but useful and I like your play.
My Datisi read I think is wrong for now and I'm gonna move my vote. Later stuff certainly appears to be working toward a solve. Page 28 interactions with FB aside but I thing ye all talked about that enough.
I thought also maybe skip and scamp had scum between them but then actually skitter's iso looked pretty good and I haven't looked at scamp properly yet.

HEMs early stuff I thought town and also VP but a few things struck me as off from both and I would like to look back properly at both.

I don't particularly think FB is town but I can wait for him to kick into gear for now and he's done enough that I am not auto scumreading so I don't want to vote there right now.
I am interested in seeing more of Xof's iso dives to see what kind of content is there
I will look at some stuff in the morning. I'm trying to just chuck down rough notes so I don't have to start fresh so I appreciate this is a bit halfhazard.

RN I like Datisi, Nero, and GL.

VOTE: Ari

I'm going to take a wild guess and say this is the point where people started scum reading conman? It's a pretty whatever scum list. I think of those slots, maybe only fire has given me any kind of scum ping this game. Saying Eira (Dann) is most likely scum feels a little convenient since it's a less established slot to attack. I'll keep this in mind when I ISO Dann.

Did the bold (my addition) ever happen conman?

Can't sleep so here have some word vomit
Marci- posts seem to just be cutesy one liners alluding to solving the game but not really demonstrating any intent to contribute.
Frog - posts read as that faux aggressive solver but arguments are just grasping at whatever in reach. Cagey reads - presumably because they are very rough and vague? - yet also acknowledging that I am using the thread "as a notebook" and being critical of that. I don't think these ideas align. Interested in Gamma and I because it's convenient.
Gamma- thought the questions were an effort to sort me and no offence given or taken, more was trying to see how you were thinking around sorting. Not very clear on this wagon (firered, irrelephant, Nero, frog) but not currently wanting to vote here myself. Haven't looked at the people voting here in depth. Liked Nero's start though, and the few posts I've read between.
Ari - similar to marci but more in-depth at least, lots of fluff about "I'm not nice" but nothing I really consider very town. Trying to push some narrative of sorting by highlighting rvs shitposts as sorting, doubt. Very weak claim.
Scamper - datisi-> largely agreed with HEMs 286 and 292, and Ausukas 288 and 290.
Later posts and a re-read makes me think I was wrong to jump just for these.
pls answer my question about irrelephant read. I also don't buy this "developed view" comment, I don't think anything I have presented is developed. This is a big game and I am trying to compartmentalise with some loose strokes to start, I don't think this is a justified comment but I want to be sure this isn't just more semantic conflict.
FB #1782 "useful" in that it drew out your contribution beyond the early "lolol I rolled scum" and got you engaged. I think then it tunnelled at needless length thus why I said I think it's wrong move, but that doesn't mean it wasn't worth the end result. You had some solid posts resulting from that, which made me feel good about your slot.

I sort of wonder how much experience you have with this playlist, conman? A lot of this seems like personality stuff that's NAI. (marci, Ari being cute...Frog being aggro)


Does someone have any other major points made against conman that I'm missing here? Doesn't feel like a TERRIBLE D1 lim, but I'm not feeling like 'oh wow, that's bad' when I read his ISO.

[Nero Cain]

ore

[VP Baltar]

I hate it when I accidentally q+ things

It's my new vibe

[Gamma Emerald]

I've caught you in several games. Wich ones the were I don't specifically remember but I know I have so...

The problem is you’ve also wrongly called me scum quite a bit recently (as in, within the past year or so)
MN 2238, LN 235, and LN 233 come to mind

[Gamma Emerald]

Trust: scamper, Ausuka, Aristeia, xofelf, ydrasse, fireisredsir, marcistar
Middle ground: DeasVail, Firebringer, Nero Cain, VP Baltar, Dannflor, GuiltyLion, Irrelephant11
Distrust: ConManMick, Datisi, humaneatingmonkey, Frogsterking, obscure

[Datisi]

Datisi, who should I vote before I catch up?

dann or conman

VOTE: conman

was there a reason you voted conman here?

[VP Baltar]

Datisi, who should I vote before I catch up?

dann or conman

VOTE: conman

was there a reason you voted conman here?

I saw people bagging on Danny for the frogster survey thing and I thought that was dumb, and that was about the only content I had even glanced at from either.

[Frogsterking]

Uhh Gamma traitor maybe? Or Town on tilt? Or scum playing better than they have in the past? My instincts are both to Town and scum read Gamma and that's the best I can rationalize that. I feel like Gamma is working within the PoE laid out by the Town core but in the worst way possible. I've seen Gamma make three tells now which I can link directly to their scum meta.

[Nero Cain]

I mean, Gamma is going to be fairly scummy regardless of alignment, ya know what I mean?

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Gamma will explain when I have more time

:/
This better be good.

it’s not that good

Yeah it was mostly just that you were underwhelming me compared to most active players. Idk what my read on you is currently

Okay trying to exit the thread is harder than I thought. I have a snappy comeback but is it worth posting?? I mean might as well huh

Snappy comeback: “I townread all the talkative people and scumread the quiet ones. And I’m having trouble nailing people down in both categories, Irrelephant, btw, is scum for townreading all the talkative people and scum reading the quiet ones, and having trouble nailing people down in both categories”

Why was this the part you thought needed addressing? That was 1 out of like 4 points against you

Because it was the part I found hypocritical. Also you could say “why that part? It was 1 out of like 4 points against you” regardless of which part I responded to?

That was the least salient part to respond to imo
Bump relly down in the read list

[Gamma Emerald]

I mean, Gamma is going to be fairly scummy regardless of alignment, ya know what I mean?

I don’t mean to just echo Ari, but like, if you think this is the case, maybe you should try a different metric to read me than whatever you have been using?

[VP Baltar]

Dannflor:

Immediately calling gamma town is weird. of course with a title of White Knight, maybe dann is just living up to it

- I kind of like that Dann comes straight into the game giving reads, even if they're a little unexplained.

I don't town read marci and I think their emotional response to Ausuka can very much be genuine regardless of their alignment

Also agree with this, though I townread marci much more than Ausuka.

VOTE: Frogsterking

y?

I don't think coming in as a replacement and automatically town reading all (or almost all) the active slots immediately shows you are critically thinking about the game at all

I think it shows you want to blend in with the crowd and survive

plus the survey as a substitute for content is icky

Ok, so obv I disagree with the survey point, and my memory was not wrong.

Here in Bunnies, I got very annoyed and entered a semi-shit fight with frog over a survey entry: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13223568

So I totally understand getting bugged by that. Danny's wrong, but I can get it being offputting anyhow.

Danny's other point about frogster townreading active slots seems more valid, since that's not really a reason to town read someone. I would need to fact check this point to defend Danny over it, but on its face I think it has merit...so if people are mad at Dann over the frogster vote, that seems kind of bogus to me.

also idk about their meta but scum usually doesn't behave the way my predecessor did of giving out 0 content

they didn't even throw out a hedged read or some wishy washy faked reads

they were like, sorry my brain is overloaded and dipped. they didn't try and were perfectly content about that. they were a townie who got overwhelmed by the volume of the game.

I think Fireisred pushing there makes some sense because they were looking for something specific but I'm skeptical about genuine scum reads on the slot. Scum usually doesn't behave like that and I'd challenge people to find instances of scum behaving like that.

never been a fan of defending your past player or agreeing with scum reads there, but this is a pretty soft version of it.

with the most level 0 read you can make?

didn't even ask if frogster was serious danni boy just went for it

this kind of looks like BS shade, knowing more of the context now.

why would it seem serious

because it seems to be?????????????????????????

the part where he's talking about meta on my predecessor seems like he's trying to make a serious point?

I don't understand why I'm not supposed to be taking this seriously

am I pulling a skitter from the start of the game here

oh, was dann pushed into discussing his predecessor? That seems less scummy then.

Also, what does pulling a skitter mean?

I really like DV's push on GL

oh, I remember wanting to read this more in depth. Note to self.

I would join a wagon on Marci now I think

Hate this tho. Easy wagon and asking for support before risking a vote.

I expected Guilty Lion to want to engage with me more. It felt like he waited an obligatory amount of time to see what the vibes would be and then moved back to my wagon. And I sort of expect GL to be the type of player who likes to sort every player for himself

frankly you kinda helped out a lot by making some terrifically bad posts about Frogster that I disliked everything about

I probably could have commented more on them but I'm still at work

We just played in a game together where I made very similar posts at the start of the game

WAIT WAIT WAIT....You've played with Frogster before????? I assumed you were new to him....that's less great.

[Nero Cain]

I've caught you in several games. Wich ones the were I don't specifically remember but I know I have so...

The problem is you’ve also wrongly called me scum quite a bit recently (as in, within the past year or so)
MN 2238, LN 235, and LN 233 come to mind

I mean, ok? I know I've misread you sometimes but that doesn't nullify my point that I've also correctly called you scum [in multiple games] or are you trying to claim that I haven't? You scum read me based on tone for a dozen games and I was town in each one of them. There was the Lickety Quickety guy that called me scum like clock work or Pirate Mollie who only called me scum when she was town. There are dozens of other players that call me scum all the time and there are dozens of other players that misread other player all the time. There's a chance that none of us are really that good at reading others and some of us just have bigger egos.

[GuiltyLion]

GuiltyLion's attack on Mick of "couple" vs 15 is

why did you call this post an "attack"?

I've already read the first couple of pages, ego so I can get back to this later.

I read the first 15ish pages last night when I requested the slot and a couple of folks are on my radar

this might be a weird question but why did you say you read a couple of pages if you had actually read 15ish? 15 is a lot more than a couple, and if your vote on Datisi was based on 15 pages rather than ~2, that seems like an important thing to make clear

also, who else is on your radar? Be specific because from where I'm sitting "a couple of folks" might mean over half the game

I made a bit of a snarky joke at the end but otherwise I think this post is very much a "can you explain what you meant" question more than an 'attack', so your word choice is off to me.

do you agree that it was at least unclear and worth clarifying how much CMM had read when he gave a read/vote on Datisi?

further, what is this thought doing in the middle of a read (& vote) on conman anyway? like do you think I'm scum making up a bad reason to suspect/bus my buddy?

[Nero Cain]

I mean are we close to ending the day? We have plenty of time

In fairness, I said feels like. I mean, idk...we are @ 80+ pages. It could just be the way that I look at mafia and see it as a POE that we have to eliminate to solve and we aren't necessarily going to get anywhere by spending 7 more days talking.

I still feel like the deadline should have never been frozen and that the mod should return it to the original clock.

I don't think we had any big wagons and con's gets to 7 and it seems like most everyone is scumreading him and I'm just sick of d1 already idk.

[Nero Cain]

I need a flip to rejuvenate me.

[VP Baltar]

why did you call this post an "attack"?

Because it read like you shading him over something very pedantic. If that wasn't your goal, I have no idea why you even posted it.