Datisi's Café [game over!]

[Datisi]

vote count 1.04

with 21 votes in play, it takes 11 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-09-29 01:45:00).

firing

Ircher [9]:

mastina, Lukewarm, Titus, furtiveglance, Ausuka, Uncrowned, RCEnigma, Klick, BlueBloodedToffee

Ydrasse [4]:

Roden, Andresvmb, jjh927, PenguinPower

Uncrowned [2]:

fireisredsir, Ydrasse

mastina [1]:

Malakittens

Ausuka [1]:

Ircher

Titus [1]:

petapan

RCEnigma [1]:

Vivax

Vivax [1]:

Nero Cain

not voting [1]:

Something_Smart

mod notes

~ i am using a vote counter, let me know if there are any mistakes.
~ this is a mod note.

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Toše Proeski - Ledena

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▶ ❚❚ ─────────────────────────●────  4:01 / 4:46

[Something_Smart]

the relationship does not scale linearly...

What relationship? There's a sweet spot for player enjoyment that usually sits around 25% of the game being scum. Too high and it feels like town has no control, too low and it can feel hard to find scum. I don't see why that wouldn't be linear.

[Vivax]

In this case just 4 scum is possible with the extra mechanic in place
I'm not opposed to flipping Ircher here but I'd like it acknowledged that a town flip means that scum was most likely to saw them slipping first...Because their perspective allowed them to. The slipping mind is most attuned to the slipping action in this case, the hypocrisy being their undoing.

Also ergh spam

[Something_Smart]

The extra mechanic is not pro-scum. It limits the usability of town PR's, but in a way that's entirely in town's control.

[PenguinPower]

do you think me saying 16:5 is normal is alignment indicative? lol

no, but i thought it was interesting you were calling out ircher for assuming a ratio without explanation when you were doing the same

[PenguinPower]

the relationship does not scale linearly...

What relationship? There's a sweet spot for player enjoyment that usually sits around 25% of the game being scum. Too high and it feels like town has no control, too low and it can feel hard to find scum. I don't see why that wouldn't be linear.

i mean - i don't think that's a true statement, but this isn't MD so moving on.

[PenguinPower]

The extra mechanic is not pro-scum. It limits the usability of town PR's, but in a way that's entirely in town's control.

I, for one, love that Datisi posts a regular accounting of everyone's productivity usage.

[Vivax]

Now we discuss if Ausukua is just trying to dumbtell or not, but that's kinda basic level of meh discussion

[Something_Smart]

I'm not opposed to flipping Ircher here but I'd like it acknowledged that a town flip means that scum was most likely to saw them slipping first...Because their perspective allowed them to.

This assumes that there really are 5 scum, then? Otherwise how would scum be more likely notice the mistake?

[Ausuka]

do you think me saying 16:5 is normal is alignment indicative? lol

no, but i thought it was interesting you were calling out ircher for assuming a ratio without explanation when you were doing the same

um, I was discussing the faction ratio because it was the topic in the game thread, and stated i thought 16:5 was likely. Ircher used 17:4 without explaining why in a calculation without talking about it. This is not the same situation.

i agree with S_S the mechanic isn't really pro scum at all.

[Ausuka]

and i'm not dumbtelling thanks. do i really have to sift my ass through completed large games to prove that games of this size will generally have 5 scum i swear to god

[Something_Smart]

I, for one, love that Datisi posts a regular accounting of everyone's productivity usage.

I mean, if we wanted to do that, we could. We probably will at some point. But even if we don't, all the actions that matter are taken by town.

[Vivax]

I'm not opposed to flipping Ircher here but I'd like it acknowledged that a town flip means that scum was most likely to saw them slipping first...Because their perspective allowed them to.

This assumes that there really are 5 scum, then? Otherwise how would scum be more likely notice the mistake?

What if yume used 5 scum out of ignorance? There's really no way to tell.
Best to yolo into it and then shine a light on the other side when we know more, one could argue.

I can put Ircher at L-1 here I think, do we make this a fast day? I don't really see Ircher giving a damn

[PenguinPower]

and i'm not dumbtelling thanks. do i really have to sift my ass through completed large games to prove that games of this size will generally have 5 scum i swear to god

Sure - look at the last three completed games that were around this size.

god.

[Klick]

The extra mechanic is not pro-scum. It limits the usability of town PR's, but in a way that's entirely in town's control.

So it's in town's control how negative utility the extra mechanic is
That doesn't mean it's not negative utility

Also, since when has giving random townies control ever been a good idea

[PenguinPower]

I, for one, love that Datisi posts a regular accounting of everyone's productivity usage.

I mean, if we wanted to do that, we could. We probably will at some point. But even if we don't, all the actions that matter are taken by town.

by individual town not the collective town

[PenguinPower]

klick can have my first town read of the game

[Ausuka]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=13278073

I don't know why you're talking to me in the way you are - I don't think I said anything bad to you? There aren't a load of games in this size, but here's a 19 player game with 5 scum if that helps

[Titus]

I don't give a rat's ass about 5 scum or 4 scum.

What I do care about is Ircher freezing. Ircher's last log in was today this morning after he was first asked about the question regarding his assumptions. While it may not be a slip, the freezing doesn't look good.

[furtiveglance]

I read Squid Game recently so that's partly why I thought 16/5 is normal for these large games. As for Ircher 'freezing', they probably just haven't been on, I don't want to smoke them without letting them defend.

[Ausuka]

I also think 4 scum is possible - I think Ircher using it in a calculation without even talking about it is possibly a sign of TMI, which wouldn't be the case if we had 5 scum. People seem to be thinking I'm either scum or stupid for saying I initially thought there would be 5 scum and I am trying to explain that I believe it to be standard.

[PenguinPower]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=13278073

I don't know why you're talking to me in the way you are - I don't think I said anything bad to you? There aren't a load of games in this size, but here's a 19 player game with 5 scum if that helps

that's the standard ratio? lol

what answer were you expecting

mostly because of this. lol.

oh and here's a 20p game with 4: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=89500

and a 19p

datisi

game with 4: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=89120

and a 21p game with 4 (+ 3rd party): https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=88500

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I'm not opposed to flipping Ircher here but I'd like it acknowledged that a town flip means that scum was most likely to saw them slipping first...Because their perspective allowed them to.

This assumes that there really are 5 scum, then? Otherwise how would scum be more likely notice the mistake?

Good posting

[Titus]

I read Squid Game recently so that's partly why I thought 16/5 is normal for these large games. As for Ircher 'freezing', they probably just haven't been on, I don't want to smoke them without letting them defend.

Their profile has their last log in time.

[Vivax]

I don't give a rat's ass about 5 scum or 4 scum.

What I do care about is Ircher freezing. Ircher's last log in was today this morning after he was first asked about the question regarding his assumptions. While it may not be a slip, the freezing doesn't look good.

Yeah he's starting to look like a Moroccan hashish plantation

VOTE: Ircher

L-1