Datisi's Café [game over!]

[mastina]

This is setup, maths and probability spec from someone who obviously loves this kind of thing. How is it town indicative?

Because it reveals Something_Smart as town in a way that I'd prefer to not elaborate on. He's locktown; the why he's locktown for that is not something I want to share.

[RCEnigma]

Wit that said, Ircher is the type of scum that’s willing to take a bullet for a partner. So I don’t think Titus’ argument that Irchers wagon sprung up to divert from someone else is merit-less.

[fireisredsir]

i don't really get the mindset behind "hammer or move on" followed by "i want to vote RCE but don't want to dampen ircher wagon"

can you explain that more

specifically about the "or move on"

Who's this directed at? Did they answer? I can't find a requote on a first go.
Fire to townlock

it was directed at klick (i was referencing 643, which i was reminded of bc ydrasse commented on it just before)

they responded in 694 and i thought the response was p good

speaking of, RCE id still like to hear about your klick read

[Something_Smart]

Wit that said, Ircher is the type of scum that’s willing to take a bullet for a partner. So I don’t think Titus’ argument that Irchers wagon sprung up to divert from someone else is merit-less.

You think Ircher deliberately baited a wagon on himself? How?

[furtiveglance]

This is setup, maths and probability spec from someone who obviously loves this kind of thing. How is it town indicative?

Because it reveals Something_Smart as town in a way that I'd prefer to not elaborate on. He's locktown; the why he's locktown for that is not something I want to share.

That helps me :thumbs up:

[mastina]

Scum!Mastina avoids fakeclaims, especially in a situation like this where there's so many unknowns that could unravel it.

(Technically, I'm not opposed to fakeclaiming as scum, but my fakeclaims need to be believable claims that cannot be fairly easily proven as lies. This means no claiming I can act when I can't, or vice versa. It means no claiming entirely different actions from my actual role. The only exceptions to this are when I have a sufficiently strong grasp of the info in the game to have a high chance of not being caught with the fakeclaim. For instance, if I know the town roles and how they acted, I can slot a claim in that fits with their actions. But yes, this is mostly accurate. Fakeclaims need to be things that are very very carefully done and most of the time it's just easier and better to tell the truth.)

[furtiveglance]

Wit that said, Ircher is the type of scum that’s willing to take a bullet for a partner. So I don’t think Titus’ argument that Irchers wagon sprung up to divert from someone else is merit-less.

You think Ircher deliberately baited a wagon on himself? How?

Unrelated slightly but this reminds of the time in an IRL game this mafia vigilante (maf with extra kill) smoked themself and it completely messed with everyone's setup spec. Semi-open type of thing, we knew what powers were in but not which alignments were which powers.

Anyway, just conspiracy level stuff.

[mastina]

I am very surprised by the FoSes on me that agree with my pushes on Ircher and SS.

To be honest, right now I don't see any team associatives with anyone.

Like, not really anywhere at all.

I only see anti-associatives. (Most of which are not strong enough to prevent them from being scum laying anti-associatives mind you.)

I get that the players I'm not townreading aren't exactly a coherent scumteam. You don't bus Ircher here, for instance. But while I believe Ircher to be scum, I don't have a townread on you right now. Ircher flipping scum would automatically give me a townread on you, but we're not there yet.

[Ircher]

Wit that said, Ircher is the type of scum that’s willing to take a bullet for a partner. So I don’t think Titus’ argument that Irchers wagon sprung up to divert from someone else is merit-less.

No, it is meritless because there was no wagon to divert from.

[RCEnigma]

Wit that said, Ircher is the type of scum that’s willing to take a bullet for a partner. So I don’t think Titus’ argument that Irchers wagon sprung up to divert from someone else is merit-less.

You think Ircher deliberately baited a wagon on himself? How?

No, I think Ircher meant to push attention somewhere else and it backfired. It wouldn’t make sense to just bait a wagon on himself.

[Ircher]

Wit that said, Ircher is the type of scum that’s willing to take a bullet for a partner. So I don’t think Titus’ argument that Irchers wagon sprung up to divert from someone else is merit-less.

You think Ircher deliberately baited a wagon on himself? How?

No, I think Ircher meant to push attention somewhere else and it backfired. It wouldn’t make sense to just bait a wagon on himself.

This is nonsense. 1) I didn't bait a wagon on myself at all. I got wagoned for a perceived scum slip. 2) I was the first wagon of the game. There was nothing for me to distract from.

[Something_Smart]

Ircher's wagon rose while he was afk, though. What exactly backfired?

[RCEnigma]

Wit that said, Ircher is the type of scum that’s willing to take a bullet for a partner. So I don’t think Titus’ argument that Irchers wagon sprung up to divert from someone else is merit-less.

No, it is meritless because there was no wagon to divert from.

I don’t agree that it makes you/SS 1 or 2 scum. Though I do think there is scum between you.

[PenguinPower]

Wit that said, Ircher is the type of scum that’s willing to take a bullet for a partner. So I don’t think Titus’ argument that Irchers wagon sprung up to divert from someone else is merit-less.

You think Ircher deliberately baited a wagon on himself? How?

No, I think Ircher meant to push attention somewhere else and it backfired. It wouldn’t make sense to just bait a wagon on himself.

This is nonsense. 1) I didn't bait a wagon on myself at all. I got wagoned for a perceived scum slip. 2) I was the first wagon of the game. There was nothing for me to distract from.

Not true. There were competing wagons on ydrasse and Ausuka before you.

[Something_Smart]

I don’t agree that it makes you/SS 1 or 2 scum. Though I do think there is scum between you.

What ties us together?

[RCEnigma]

Ircher's wagon rose while he was afk, though. What exactly backfired?

Ehh, maybe I’m talking out of my ass here. I just think suspicion on Ircher stuck, but don’t think it’s unfounded. I compared Ircher here to Ircher in control when called out by LLD and I think the situations are nearly 1:1 in terms of response to pressure.

Also fwiw I don’t think SS + Ircher is a thing for any of the reasons Titus have out.

[RCEnigma]

I don’t agree that it makes you/SS 1 or 2 scum. Though I do think there is scum between you.

What ties us together?

They’re independent reads. I haven’t really settled on your slot though, I’ve seen town and scum in your posting.

[Something_Smart]

Okay, that's reasonable. Just wanted to make sure it wasn't related to Titus's nonsense theory about Ircher's wagon distracting from me.

[Lukewarm]

I don't think you've considered the range of possibilities that would lead to scum potentially being caught lying about productivity numbers if they make shit up now

Though it depends on what exactly is contained within a scum PM, at the moment we are assuming that only town do anything with productivity numbers.

What if there is a hypothetical role that could determine someone's productivity in the previous phase? How would it respond if it targeted scum? Nobody knows, because it's hypothetical, but it's at least moderately likely given it's not a very far-fetched role design in relation to the mechanic


I can tell you that if Mastina was scum, she would certainly have considered a similar line of reasoning before claiming to put in 0%

This feels like a conversation that will bog down the thread, so imma spoiler it.

tl;dr I think that it is plausible for Scum!mastina, despite her aversion to fake claiming, to come up with the plan to claim it out the gate.

And to be clear, I also think it plausible for town!Mastina to come up with the same plan. I'm just saying I wont be town binning her for it.

Spoiler:

In this exact scenario, you my assumption would be that scum would come back as having contributed 0% -- and if that were not the case, I would expect the scum to be aware of that. (because that would imply they have an ability that lies about their productivity levels to invests). So this is a poor example.

My counter point is another hypothetical.

Scum Mastina gets a role pm, and that role pm includes a role that she intends to use every single night.

She knows that that means that she will show up to trackers and/or watchers out there. So, before the game stated, she realizes that based on the mechanics of the game, she must play as though she has a PR which would require her to use less then 100% of her productivity. This is a forced thing to fake based on the mechanics because showing up on a watcher / tracker report, and also claiming to be giving 100% productivity = provably lying.

I think that Mastina would have likely realized this.

At this point, the question is just, would scum mastina go ahead and fake claim her productivity now, or would she wait until the event that she showed up on a watcher/tracker report, and fake claim what her productivity levels have been from there.

Given the post Klick has been sharing, I can totally see her deciding to get it over with out the gate. I also think that scum!Mastina, once she decided to fake claim a productivity level, would choose 0% specifically because it is the closest thing to the truth (being scum, who is not contributing to the overall productivity)

So, I think that it is plausible for scum mastina, with a pr, to come up with the idea to claim her low productivity early.

[Uncrowned]

i have awoken from my slumber, have a long shift today but will be peepin

[mastina]

If you vote Ircher now maybe we could end it by 35

happy to given his recent contribution but mastina seemed like she's doing her catch up thing.

I'm good; vote away!

[Lukewarm]

I am very surprised by the FoSes on me that agree with my pushes on Ircher and SS. There has to be scum in there.

Why the 1v1 on us? If I were a gambler (which I'm not), I would wager that we're both in fact town.

Could you put into your own words why you think Titus is town, Ircher

Considering I haven't expressed a town read (or a scum read) there, no.

whip lash

[Ircher]

petapan - Town
Ausuka - Town
Malakittens - Null
Nero Cain - Town
PenguinPower - Town
Lukewarm - Town
furtiveglance - Town
Roden - Town
Titus - Scum
Uncrowned - Town
Vivax - Scum
Andresvmb - Town
mastina - Town
jjh927 - Town
Ircher - Town
RCEnigma - Scum
BlueBloodedToffee - Null
Klick - Null
Something_Smart - Town
Ydrasse - Null
fireisredsir - Town

These are my reads.

[RCEnigma]

VOTE: RCE

I am sitting in the morning
At the diner on the corner

This feels like a sensible vote

I didn't like it, based on RC's posting at the time.

RCE felt like pretty decent potential scum at that point to me, but I think RCE is really easy to read most of the time anyway so I'll give him time

@Fire my scumread on Klick started here.

I don’t have many games with Klick at all so this stuck out as weird.

I’m not a ramp up kind of player I’m a what you see is what you get kind of player. I have a fair amount of games played with slots not named Klick but Mastina is probably the only slot that would say they can reliably read me (even though they scumread me as town very very often).

So the angle seemed fake, I let it slide and I’ve become their top scumread. Surprise surprise.

[Ircher]

I am very surprised by the FoSes on me that agree with my pushes on Ircher and SS. There has to be scum in there.

Why the 1v1 on us? If I were a gambler (which I'm not), I would wager that we're both in fact town.

Could you put into your own words why you think Titus is town, Ircher

Considering I haven't expressed a town read (or a scum read) there, no.

whip lash

I feel like I need to clarify my 795 as it seems both you and jjh misinterpreted when reading it. The "us" there is referring to Smart and myself, not to Titus.