Datisi's Café [game over!]

[Datisi]

vote count 2.05

with 17 votes in play, it takes 9 to make a decision. day 2 ends in (expired on 2022-10-04 01:00:00).

firing

Roden [6]:

mastina, Andresvmb, Klick, Ausuka, Malakittens, Ydrasse

Something_Smart [3]:

PenguinPower, Titus, Uncrowned

RCEnigma [3]:

furtiveglance, fireisredsir, Vivax

Titus [2]:

Roden, Lukewarm

not voting [3]:

jjh927, RCEnigma, Something_Smart

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▶ ❚❚ ─────────────────●─────────────  1:58 / 3:37

[jjh927]

You hadn't given me any actual reason to think you're scum until now, Roden, nor have I said I think you're lying. Don't try to put words in my mouth.

[jjh927]

Like, can we skip this? Either you're doing the thing you did that other game ages back where you try pissing me off in order to place me, you're resigning yourself to being the elim while trying to blame everyone else, or you're just scum and you're out of directions to go in

I would very much appreciate it if you'd just cooperate

[Lukewarm]

Roden, I am also interested in a full claim of the percentages for your role.

you already claimed the base role, and the modifier, so I am unsure why you are not wanting to claim the numbers.

[Vivax]

I‘m currently reviewing the plan to steal everyone‘s DNA and launch people willing to kiss my arse into space with myself before I nuke the planet. What‘s up my dudes.

[Lukewarm]

So, I did my Luke's Thoughts on Mastina wrt Ircher post.

Now its time for my Luke's Thoughts on Titus wrt Ircher Post: A timeline

---

The state of Ircher before Titus comments on him: I have commented on the slip. Mastina, Peta, and myself have voted Ircher

Spoiler:

As long as we achieve 1,275 points out of 1,700 points each day, we will be fine. If mastina is setting hers to 0%, then we need to average 80 points per player to avoid the extra night kills.

Is this just you guessing that this game is a 17:4, or did I miss that info somewhere, or?

VOTE: Ausuka

VOTE: Ircher

Scum.

VOTE: Ircher

do do do do do do-do do

VOTE: Ircher

do do do do do do-do do

I'm convinced

VOTE: Ircher

---

Titus shows up, and does a naked vote on Ircher

Spoiler:

{snip | Vote Count}

I like Ydrasse as town based on how things have progressed so far. Not really seeing the ausuka wagon. Not feeling mastina, even if I disagree on strategy.

VOTE: Ircher

---

Next Furtive shows up and outlines the TMI thing

Spoiler:

As long as we achieve 1,275 points out of 1,700 points each day, we will be fine. If mastina is setting hers to 0%, then we need to average 80 points per player to avoid the extra night kills.

Is this just you guessing that this game is a 17:4, or did I miss that info somewhere, or?

Ircher hasn't been on since this. It totally assumes 17/4 whereas I assumed 16/5 like other large games I've seen.

As long as we achieve 1,275 points out of 1,700 points each day, we will be fine. If mastina is setting hers to 0%, then we need to average 80 points per player to avoid the extra night kills.

Is this just you guessing that this game is a 17:4, or did I miss that info somewhere, or?

Ircher hasn't been on since this. It totally assumes 17/4 whereas I assumed 16/5 like other large games I've seen.

Ok....does the setup state how many scum and I missed it?

No, the setup states we don't know. The point is Ircher could be doing a sus TMI scum slip!

---

Next Titus makes a series of posts, where she both adamantly makes it clear that she Scum Reads Ircher, but also is trying to discredit the TMI reason that everyone else is voting Ircher. She also starts laying the ground work to say that SS should actually be the elim, because the timing of bringing up the tmi was suspicious and Actually Just a Distraction from scum!SS.

Spoiler:

As long as we achieve 1,275 points out of 1,700 points each day, we will be fine. If mastina is setting hers to 0%, then we need to average 80 points per player to avoid the extra night kills.

Is this just you guessing that this game is a 17:4, or did I miss that info somewhere, or?

Ircher hasn't been on since this. It totally assumes 17/4 whereas I assumed 16/5 like other large games I've seen.

Ok....does the setup state how many scum and I missed it?

No, the setup states we don't know. The point is Ircher could be doing a sus TMI scum slip!

I don't see how...but you do you. Generates wagons so not gunna fight this

i mean now we play the game

what's more likely

mr. ircher just guessed the ratio or he's a very informed doggo

Why suppose he's right?

Dude's not town but I hate slip arguments

I think at least one of Ircher/SS if not both are scum. The timing of this slip argument right as SS gets pushed for reads is a bit sus when that argument was there all along.

I think at least one of Ircher/SS if not both are scum. The timing of this slip argument right as SS gets pushed for reads is a bit sus when that argument was there all along.

Are you saying I successfully caused a distraction?

@Something_Smart

oh, I did miss that, but that's not asking for wagon analysis, just reads on particular people.

Ydrasse slightly town, Ausuka null, Ircher null, mastina slightly scum.

Yes but SS replies here.

I struggle to see how town SS sees Ircher as null and has zero comment about the wagons.

---

While that conversation is happening, now that the tmi slip has been brought up so clearly, the Ircher wagon grows to near terminal size.

Spoiler:

We shouldn't fire Ydrasse, I think they're an Employee. I'll vote Ircher for now but I might unvote if they come on and explain why they thought 17/4.

VOTE: Ircher

Uncrowned I voted someone.

VOTE: Ircher

Baa

this is getting good

VOTE: Ircher

I rescind my SS townread.
VOTE: Ircher

VOTE: Ircher

My personal opinion is that Something_Smart is pretty scummy in his own right and I don't have a strong opinion on the Ircher-informed thing, but if we're partnering these two together then sure let's go

VOTE: Ircher

After the Ircher wagon gets to e-2, with someone saying they were willing to put him at e-1, Titus amps up the certaintly that Ircher is scum, drops the SS line of thinking, and starts pushing the idea that Ircher is frozen. The key thing to me, is that Ircher has not entered the thread a single time in the interim. The only change here is that his wagon went from a smallish wagon, and only Furtive openly discussing the slip -- to the Ircher wagon being very close to going over.

Spoiler:

I don't give a rat's ass about 5 scum or 4 scum.

What I do care about is Ircher freezing. Ircher's last log in was today this morning after he was first asked about the question regarding his assumptions. While it may not be a slip, the freezing doesn't look good.

I don't give a rat's ass about 5 scum or 4 scum.

Well, if it's 5 scum then Ircher's town equity goes way up.

How? He's just as frozen...

I don't give a rat's ass about 5 scum or 4 scum.

Well, if it's 5 scum then Ircher's town equity goes way up.

How? He's just as frozen...

Titus... what?

How do you not see, that if he confidently was posting about there being 4 scum, and there are actually 5 scum that makes him more likely to be uninformed?

Even if he was scum purposefully saying 4 scum instead of 5 scum, do you think that he was making the conscious effort to say a wrong number, while not having any idea where he was going with that intentional choice?

I literally don't care for the setup spec. If we prove 5 scum or 4 scum, I'll reevaluate. I don't care for the slip talk. Never have. It's odd for Ircher to post like that at all, so I don't think it was 100% Ircher. I don't trust any mechanics I don't have personal knowledge of yet.

I care about Ircher's posting or lack there of.

towntold

HA

SORRY TITUS

I'M MORE OBVTOWN THAN U

GET OVER IT

Sure master. You may curl up in my lap now.

Shall I get you catnip? Or you prefer the blood of scum Ircher?

---

Conclusion:

The time line of Titus's stance surrounding Ircher Partnered.

Scum saw the tmi thing when I asked, and likely hoped that it would go away, but also need to position themselves in case it doesnt.

Her naked voting Ircher, to be on wagon before it blew up, while also not adding any additional attention to it feels like where scum might go.
Her then, scum reading Ircher, while also arguing against the tmi slip (and also setting up a pivot onto SS) feels like where scum would want to live in case Ircher is salvagable.
Her doubling down on the scum read when it becomes clear that he is not salvagable also feels like where scum want to live.

Her "Ircher is frozen" arguement is awkward as hell, given the context of him not being in thread at all from 8:20 PM est on the 14th to 3:30 PM est on the 15th (pretty standard time from someone to be asleep -> work). But, if she is scum wanting to double down on her doomed team mate, AFTER she has made lots of posts saying how the tmi thing is not real, she really did not have many other options.

---

TL;DR : Titus's positioning around Ircher shifts progressively throughout a time where Ircher is not on at all, giving the appearance that her position is not dependent on Ircher, but actually dependent on the state of Ircher's Wagon. It looks to me like a scum partner, doing some mental calculations on exactly where she needs to be, vs a genuine progression on the slot.

[PenguinPower]

Her "Ircher is frozen" arguement is awkward as hell, given the context of him not being in thread at all from 8:20 PM est on the 14th to 3:30 PM est on the 15th (pretty standard time from someone to be asleep -> work). But, if she is scum wanting to double down on her doomed team mate, AFTER she has made lots of posts saying how the tmi thing is not real, she really did not have many other options.

tbf - she saw he logged into the site during that timeframe but failed to post which is why I think she said he was frozen.

[Ausuka]

I think 1505 is a fantastic post and puts what I was trying to say earlier much more eloquently

[PenguinPower]

So, I did my Luke's Thoughts on Mastina wrt Ircher post.

you borked the link btw.

[Lukewarm]

So, I did my Luke's Thoughts on Mastina wrt Ircher post.

you borked the link btw.

Thats annoying. It worked in the preview and everything.

1454

[Lukewarm]

Her "Ircher is frozen" arguement is awkward as hell, given the context of him not being in thread at all from 8:20 PM est on the 14th to 3:30 PM est on the 15th (pretty standard time from someone to be asleep -> work). But, if she is scum wanting to double down on her doomed team mate, AFTER she has made lots of posts saying how the tmi thing is not real, she really did not have many other options.

tbf - she saw he logged into the site during that timeframe but failed to post which is why I think she said he was frozen.

Yes. I did see her justification for the angle that she took. Does not make it less awkward imo.

Even with that being the case, she is arguing that he logged on, saw my single question about something she did not believe to be a slip, then logged off without responding. Lock Scum. The timeline of when his log on was, to when she is calling him frozen skips the entire time that he became an actually wagon, because the supposed frozen log on was before Furtive outed that post as TMI to the thread.

[Andresvmb]

@Datisi I am back tonight.

[fireisredsir]

i thought titus' 204 was strange and awkward and her general approach to the day did feel pretty... positional? like she was more focused on controlling gamestate and stuff. and i thought that was p scummy. and even with the ircher flip, peta dying made me kinda want to sheep his read there even more

but i kinda thought her 1471 was p convincing and made her play make a lot more sense

idk maybe im dumb and too easily swayed

for titus in the past ive looked for like... solving under the hood and i felt like she had more of that on d2 so far. she also has seemed kinda unaware of the gamestate in a way that i wouldn't really expect from scum, when i saw her as scum she knew exactly what was going on and where she should push to respond to that

[fireisredsir]

hmm ig actually maybe the 1471 narrative doesn't quite track since she seemed more focused on SS at first

[Lukewarm]

I believe that retroactively coming up with reasonable explanation for herself is one of the strongest parts of Titus's scum game. I think that it plays into her strenghts as a real life trial lawyer, and also plays into the idea that Town Titus's actions are often considered Moon Logic.


Pictured below: Me spotting her weird interactions with her scum partner catboi in NQN2, and then accepting the response she managed to come up with several days later.

Spoiler:

<snip>

This is a good post! It also looks to me like Nashville Dreams weren't able to maintain internal consistency and forgot who they were supposed to be sussing by confusing Monkeyman with catboi.

I'll keep reading, but based on the most recent VC and scrolling through the last few pages, it doesn't look like the wagon on them developed much further, which is kind of odd, because I feel like this is more solid that anything else that's happened so far this game.

Also:

Interesting how I postulate that voting Catboi might be required for the game state causes us to be a counter to catboi. This definitely means I need to reset my catboi read when I catch up.

The only difference I see is who is doing the voting. If it was people familiar with me, I would lean towards scum saving catboi. Yet Butter and Wallflower are not familiar with me.

Would like for Nashville Dreams to acknowledge posts 1705, 2109, 2113/2116 at some point

@ND

I already have.

Motive can tell alignment. The sheer number of times catboi has been counterwagoned suggests he's scum. My play read on him is town. The last I checked our hydra notes, she had catboi scum. Her opinion (at least at the time) plus the votes means I need to reset and check if the votes warrant the belief that scum were shopping for any not catboi wagon.

Even if my gut instinct is right, repeated counterwagons to town in multiball suggest catboi is defending one if not both teams hard.

That's why I need to know about the alleged missing bnuuy wagon.

While VCA isn't proper yet, we can still get theories as to what happens.

Ngl, this is a better answer then I was expecting. Especially the bolded. I feel like that could be the missing context to make those series of posts make any kind of sense.c
I still don't like that it took so long and so many attempts to get a solid answer down. But... I guess I can see why the wagon dissipated

Me:

The interaction made her my strongest scum read day 1 (and one of the major Day 1 Wagons) that game, then her explanation managed to shake it off, then she proceeded to make it to Day 8 as scum.

[Lukewarm]

Oh.

Well Done is a hydra I was in.
Nashville was a hydra Titus was in.

[PenguinPower]

pssh - who dreams of nashville?

hmm...debating whether or not i should townbin luke rn

[furtiveglance]

pssh - who dreams of nashville?

hmm...debating whether or not i should townbin luke rn

Should call it a town basket, scum can go in the bin. Who is in your scumbin?

[PenguinPower]

i'm waffling on who is in the scum basket atm.

please ask again in 24 hours.

[furtiveglance]

i'm waffling on who is in the scum basket atm.

please ask again in 24 hours.

How about S_S? They keep arguing that this is their towngame, do you see a difference? Or just townreading other players?

[PenguinPower]

well - i mean - i think i've been clear on my stance on s_s.

[Vivax]

Okay I'm putting the tunnel hat aside for a moment and zeroing my current reads before doing a full reread.
But I really believe Ydrasse is being written off as town way too quickly here after going over a few VCs while trying to judge if this Roden wagon has any merit.
Anyway, off I go.

Spoiler:

vote count 2.01

with 17 votes in play, it takes 9 to make a decision. day 2 ends in (expired on 2022-10-04 01:00:00).

firing

RCEnigma [1]:

Klick

Titus [1]:

Ausuka

Vivax [1]:

Lukewarm

furtiveglance [1]:

Malakittens

not voting [13]:

PenguinPower, furtiveglance, Roden, Titus, Uncrowned, Vivax, Andresvmb, mastina, jjh927, RCEnigma, Something_Smart, Ydrasse, fireisredsir

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▶ ❚❚ ───●───────────────────────────  0:19 / 2:30

This series doesn't read dishonest by Roden, and the VC didn't suggest he had pressure to claim. Caveat being that he was pre-empting a tracker on himself while killing Peta, I could see it. Sentence makes me think of caveat emptor, funny how English works.

Spoiler:

Wow, that's really annoying. I targeted Peta last night.

VOTE: Titus

Titus has the greatest motivation to kill Peta ASAP despite the scum reads going his way yesterday.

Wow, that's really annoying. I targeted Peta last night.

Pray continue....

I'm a Mailman with a modifier. I sent him a message asking for advice on how to effectively play my role, and let him know I chose him since I believed he would be the most likely person to give solid advice regardless of his own alignment or his read on me.

Wow, that's really annoying. I targeted Peta last night.

Pray continue....

I'm a Mailman with a modifier. I sent him a message asking for advice on how to effectively play my role, and let him know I chose him since I believed he would be the most likely person to give solid advice regardless of his own alignment or his read on me.

Oh and PR name is Flirt

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Mailman

Then:

Spoiler:

vote count 1.final

with 21 votes in play, it took 11 to make a decision. day 1 ended.

firing

Ircher [11]:

mastina, Lukewarm, Titus, furtiveglance, Ausuka, RCEnigma, Klick, BlueBloodedToffee, Vivax, PenguinPower, petapan

[HAMMER]

Titus [2]:

Malakittens, fireisredsir

Ydrasse [2]:

Roden, Nero Cain

Vivax [2]:

Andresvmb, Ircher

petapan [1]:

Something_Smart

Roden [1]:

Uncrowned

Malakittens [1]:

jjh927

not voting [1]:

Ydrasse

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~ i am using a vote counter, let me know if there are any mistakes.
~ this is a mod note.

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▶ ❚❚ ──────────────────────────●───  2:53 / 3:04

vote count 2.05

with 17 votes in play, it takes 9 to make a decision. day 2 ends in (expired on 2022-10-04 01:00:00).

firing

Roden [6]:

mastina, Andresvmb, Klick, Ausuka, Malakittens, Ydrasse

Something_Smart [3]:

PenguinPower, Titus, Uncrowned

RCEnigma [3]:

furtiveglance, fireisredsir, Vivax

Titus [2]:

Roden, Lukewarm

not voting [3]:

jjh927, RCEnigma, Something_Smart

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▶ ❚❚ ─────────────────●─────────────  1:58 / 3:37

Roden + Nero on Ydrasse. Ircher voting Ydrasse off the VC. Nero dead.

[Vivax]

VOTE: Ausuka

VOTE: Ircher

Scum.

So for starters, we know there's 4 scum based off what Ircher slipped on page 1. But while there was a random flashwagon on Ausuka going on, why is this the reason mastina voted Ircher

first

for the wrong reason?

[Vivax]

I have not been having a lot of fun with Day 1 of large games. So I might try to coast this one out.

But I also might be bad at sticking to that lol.

But for now, and until I inevitably fail at holding back, Peta I declare you a double voter

VOTE: Klick

Oh is this the mythical Lukewarm scumgame?

...'Cause it looks like a mythical Lukewarm scumgame.

Btw Roden is scum here pretty sure.

So color me paranoid here, but is Mastina running her entire team into the ground right from the start?

[Vivax]

Spoiler:

Hi y'all, I'm gonna be fully transparent with this:

I am setting my productivity to 0% today.

You may call that anti-town as much as you want; you can consider it suspicious as much as you want. Which is fair. The scum extra kill mechanism is ludicrously strong and I am fully aware of the risks.

But I have very strong reasons for doing so. I promise that by D4, you'll know why.
I won't go 0% more than once.

But for ~reasons~ I need to go 0% today. Let's just say I'll become a scumhunting GOD.

I kinda feel like you should have just done this, and not declared it tbh.

Are you basically claiming that you have a power worth the over all productivity taking a hit?

Conversely, people probably should not declare intent to go to 100% productivity, because that is paramount to claiming either a VT or a PR with a bad ability.

damn mega townie analysis from you on something that's already been done congrats you're at the top of my TRs

have my powers of sarcasm failed me

Yea, I guess.
Good to know I don't actually have to do a full reread now.