Datisi's Café [game over!]

[Ydrasse]

i’m universally tr and care not for petty things such as town points

[furtiveglance]

i’m universally tr and care not for petty things such as town points

Good, cos you don't get any

[Vivax]

I'm not submitting a gamesolve here, I'm trying to flag up scummy players that are being ignored.

yeah but that just seems like town signalling (idk if that's the right phrase for it) instead of just, pushing the slots?

Yeah I feel a bit powerless about today's vote.

VOTE: Malakittens

VOTE: Malakittens

Why these votes and what's with the Yd-FG interactions?
They're like...Deliberately ineffective considering the best shot at getting any meaningful counterweight to the Roden wagon that forces scum to act (if Roden is town) is following Luke and Roden to the Titus wagon.

No claims on universal truth, but this shuffling won't force an active gamestate from players who avoid posting imo.

[Vivax]

these reads feel kinda convenient

do you have any actual thoughts on: roden, mastina, titus, luke

it can wait till later if you don't wanna post big but yeah, like i said, those names you've all listed feel v convenient and i highly doubt we have all scum in the less active half of the game

1428 still fairly accurate but Roden down a bit, I don't get the 0% thing.

As for 'convenient' reads, I didn't check my reads against the activity overview. You're right, I should have seen that my scumreads were less active which gives them a townpass, because we all know that scummy lurkers are always town in disguise. Just disregard everything then, I'll re-evaluate knowing that at least 2 mafia are within the top 5 posters.

On a serious note, yeah I don't think Ausuka/Malakittens/RC IS the scumteam, but they are all possible scum individually.

I'm ok with the idea that I might be townreading/townleaning a mafia, that's pretty much always the case. I'm not submitting a gamesolve here, I'm trying to flag up scummy players that are being ignored. And there's a big difference between 'the scumteam is not entirely lurkers' and 'Luke/Mastina/Roden/Titus' HAS TO have mafia in.

This sentence really rubs me the wrong way. Do you mean to say you weren't posting on a serious note before?
The entire post rubs me the wrong way

[furtiveglance]

these reads feel kinda convenient

do you have any actual thoughts on: roden, mastina, titus, luke

it can wait till later if you don't wanna post big but yeah, like i said, those names you've all listed feel v convenient and i highly doubt we have all scum in the less active half of the game

1428 still fairly accurate but Roden down a bit, I don't get the 0% thing.

As for 'convenient' reads, I didn't check my reads against the activity overview. You're right, I should have seen that my scumreads were less active which gives them a townpass, because we all know that scummy lurkers are always town in disguise. Just disregard everything then, I'll re-evaluate knowing that at least 2 mafia are within the top 5 posters.

On a serious note, yeah I don't think Ausuka/Malakittens/RC IS the scumteam, but they are all possible scum individually.

I'm ok with the idea that I might be townreading/townleaning a mafia, that's pretty much always the case. I'm not submitting a gamesolve here, I'm trying to flag up scummy players that are being ignored. And there's a big difference between 'the scumteam is not entirely lurkers' and 'Luke/Mastina/Roden/Titus' HAS TO have mafia in.

This sentence really rubs me the wrong way. Do you mean to say you weren't posting on a serious note before?
The entire post rubs me the wrong way

I said on a serious note because the previous paragraph was sarcastic. Maybe my powers of sarcasm failed me as well

[Vivax]

Why shouldn‘t they be scum together? Reads like you‘re afraid of suggesting that

Luke, mastina, Roden, Titus relevant to you how? Reads like some antispew list with a mafia or two mixed in that you were forced to mention.

[Vivax]

Is anyone forcing you to have these reads, FG? Does the Fargo prp suggest that Uncrowned is manipulating your reads? Do you need assistance?

[furtiveglance]

Why shouldn‘t they be scum together? Reads like you‘re afraid of suggesting that

Luke, mastina, Roden, Titus relevant to you how? Reads like some antispew list with a mafia or two mixed in that you were forced to mention.

Why shouldn't Ausuka/Mala/RC be the scumteam? I don't think they'd all flake in the same way, I don't think I've managed to hit the exact correct solution with my 3 lowest scumreads in a game of 17 players. Just unlikely. I'm not afraid of anyone, apart from Lukewarm, Mastina, JJH, Penguin Power, Something_Smart and you (and obviously Petapan and Nero)

[furtiveglance]

Is anyone forcing you to have these reads, FG? Does the Fargo prp suggest that Uncrowned is manipulating your reads? Do you need assistance?

I am unforced, like an error.

[Lukewarm]

"I have 3 scum reads, but they don't really make sense as a team" does not seem like a wild stance for someone to have.

[Ausuka]

I’ll explain why - the productivity mechanic, it hints pretty heavily that mastina has to be Town. You know the cost of using your ability, and if you assume that the flipped PRs all maxed out their use of productivity points so that they could use their abilities once, making some assumptions as to how many PRs there are in the game, you can almost get to a point where you can figure out whether mastina used up productivity points as they described or not. And you know the Town used enough where the Scum were granted an extra kill. I think you almost have to assume mastina did use a significant amount of productivity points to make the math work no? That’s what I started to realize. I don’t know if anybody has brought this up already I’m not caught up, but I’m beginning to think it’s probably difficult to make the math work unless you assume mastina did as they indicated (ergo, Town).

I mean I kind of agree with this?

Like it's obviously not an exact science, we don't know what dead people have done with their actions, etc. At the same time I feel like pre-announcig is a pretty big risk for scum mastina to make.

Also in the last game I played with her I'm pretty sure she decided I was scum on d1 and carried it through to elo, and I don't think her reads list really changed in that game either, so like I don't think her play in this game is scum indicative

[Ausuka]

Also I'm not a flake smh you guys

[Ausuka]

That being said I have considered that I am probably putting in a lot more effort to defending myself in this game than I intended and I will try to do that less going forward

[furtiveglance]

Also I'm not a flake smh you guys

I'm sorry about this. Uncrowned started this by saying my 3 lowest reads all were 'less active'. Over time I became less careful and accurate with terminology.

[Ausuka]

i'm literally the guy that was questioning S_S for seeming to be ok with that

i think the people who are saying "let's just wait" are >rand scum because in what world would a town player be ok with being led around by a potential scum player for days on end., especially if they've had no read progression outside of townbinning her for her first post of the game

hence why i would lean luke being town atm bc i think the read of scum!mastina goes against the grain of this game

I mean are we necessarily being led around by her? I don't really get the angle you're pushing

I still think Roden not really talking about the Ircher wagon at all when it was (imo) the primary discussion point is strongly scummy. I'm still thinking over what his play today indicates, I'm aware I did make a mistake at first in his role and that at least partially explains the push on me, but at the same time people said scum Roden is often Angry so like... idk

I would have preferred if Lukewarm did not out the tell because Roden now claims to know what it was (I think) and there isn't any way to disprove that

I would ask Roden why he didn't just say the tell to take the wind out of its sails, but I feel like the response will be that he's not going to respond unless I say that I'll locktown him if I get the right answer, or something

[Ausuka]

It really feels like you're making this up. I understand why someone would be suspicious of me in a vacuum but this argument feels like you started at the premise "ausuka is scum" and then made up reasoning to reach that viewpoint.

You are correct; fire did this for you.

You know who else has done that?

Lukewarm with his Titus/mastina cases.

Both are scum!

I mean, I *agree* with the Lukewarm case. You can look back and see me saying the same things, I'm pretty sure - and peta also thought this! I don't think this really applies to luke here.

[Vivax]

I‘m the least scary person I know, personally. The scary type likes me tho, like the Fargo dude.
I somehow like dealing with those. Might go into the field at some point since I‘d probably not give a damn about having to deal with crazies, they‘re entertaining when they don‘t sensory overload you.

[Ausuka]

I struggle to believe that town!Mastina actually has this level of certainty on her Ircher read without that, and I think it makes much more sense that this is a patent pending, Mastina designed, scum/scum partner interaction.

I went back to find this game just for you! I hope I get town points for this.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=79906

In this game mastina decides in, like, RVS? Basically the start of the game, she decides her order of suspects is exactly Pine -> Lavender -> Ausuka -> ofrhz.

She maintains this stance *throughout the entire game*. Like, her reasoning changes and evolves, but the reads are incredibly static, right from the RVS phase.

And she was town in this game!

I think the obvious answer here is - mastina thinks Ircher's page 1 is obviously scum because she decided at the start of the game that she was going to scumread Ircher? And while I wouldn't make a bet, I feel like this meta has been brought up in the thread, so I'm surprised you find it scummy?

[furtiveglance]

I struggle to believe that town!Mastina actually has this level of certainty on her Ircher read without that, and I think it makes much more sense that this is a patent pending, Mastina designed, scum/scum partner interaction.

I went back to find this game just for you! I hope I get town points for this.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=79906

In this game mastina decides in, like, RVS? Basically the start of the game, she decides her order of suspects is exactly Pine -> Lavender -> Ausuka -> ofrhz.

She maintains this stance *throughout the entire game*. Like, her reasoning changes and evolves, but the reads are incredibly static, right from the RVS phase.

And she was town in this game!

I think the obvious answer here is - mastina thinks Ircher's page 1 is obviously scum because she decided at the start of the game that she was going to scumread Ircher? And while I wouldn't make a bet, I feel like this meta has been brought up in the thread, so I'm surprised you find it scummy?

Town points to Gryffindor

[furtiveglance]

I struggle to believe that town!Mastina actually has this level of certainty on her Ircher read without that, and I think it makes much more sense that this is a patent pending, Mastina designed, scum/scum partner interaction.

I went back to find this game just for you! I hope I get town points for this.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=79906

In this game mastina decides in, like, RVS? Basically the start of the game, she decides her order of suspects is exactly Pine -> Lavender -> Ausuka -> ofrhz.

She maintains this stance *throughout the entire game*. Like, her reasoning changes and evolves, but the reads are incredibly static, right from the RVS phase.

And she was town in this game!

I think the obvious answer here is - mastina thinks Ircher's page 1 is obviously scum because she decided at the start of the game that she was going to scumread Ircher? And while I wouldn't make a bet, I feel like this meta has been brought up in the thread, so I'm surprised you find it scummy?

Town points to Gryffindor

KLICK! CROSS OFF AUSUKA!

[Ausuka]

VOTE: Titus

I like this wagon, and have explained why I'm sus of her

I don't really agree with the idea (mostly proposed by Titus I think to be fair) that scum wouldn't bus Ircher here - it seems like Ircher was mostly going antispew from the start and probably TMId that only four scum exist in this game. There's no point in trying to save a buddy if they don't want to be saved and the situation looks bad for them - a scum flip d1 with no associatives tends not to be the worst thing in the world for a maf team and I think most teams are bus happy - like, I fully believe that Titus is not fond of bussing compared to the average player, but in this situation where Ircher is dead in the water, maybe even wants to be bussed, and the rest of the team probably wants to bus him - would anyone not be willing to bus in that situation, regardless of their meta?

[Ausuka]

If we are using self meta logic though Ircher and I were friends back in the day and rolling scum with him would've been awesome so I never would have bussed him this game

You guys should clear me too

[Titus]

I'll be back tomorrow. Drinking and concert tonight.

[mastina]

I would like to be clear, that my point was NOT that it looks like The Single Game Control. My point was that it looks like the way that scum!Mastina, in general, interacts with her scum partners early on.

Freebie for reading me:
I don't bus my scumbuddies when I know that I need to be kept alive;
I

heavily

bus my scumbuddies when I believe that

they

need to be kept alive, but *I* do not. (How does this work? Well, basically, I never plan on being the lategame scum; I always assume I get eliminated. If I get eliminated while laying reads that clear my scumbuddies, then I further my wincon even in death. I literally wrote an article saying not to bus, because by default when I don't see the need for me to die, I won't actually bus. The article remains true; bussing is stupid to blindly do. I only bus when I feel my teammates will get benefit from it.)

In Control, I valued Ircher's life more than my own, which is WHY I pushed him; I thought I'd go down and would prop him up. Yeah, I was a roleblocker and that was a good role, but I was also in a game with a lot of people I expected could correctly read me, AND Ircher was a role much much much stronger than a roleblocker. It obviously didn't pan out that way, but the

idea

was for me to die before any of my scumbuddies and make sure all of my scumbuddies looked town.

In Multiball 2, I needed to die during the night, so I was actively setting my scumbuddies up to thrive after I died. (And, hey, if it weren't for the other team killing both of them, it'd have worked! Neither of my scumbuddies was killed by the town.)

I can tell you that this game I most certainly wouldn't have valued Ircher's life above my own and therefore had no reason to bus him. Yes he was deadweight, but deadweight can still be saved reasonably from a town perspective. (Could've sworn that article had a section where I say "your town self is stupider than you give yourself credit for", but oh well.)

I don't see the benefit in outing my exact process on a scum who's already dead.

because it looks a little fabricated considering the differences between his town page 1 vote and his scum page 1 vote are awfully minimal?

Not to me.

Any player of sufficient skill will have their towngames and scumgames look similar superficially. To someone not in the know, that'd make the differences look awfully minimal, because if you're anywhere remotely close to skilled at scum you know how to make your scumgame look ~90-99% like your towngame.

It's finding the 1-10% that matters.

He literally called me locked town on an Ircher scum flip, and had not yet explained it. He also had vivax and Titus as his strongest scum reads.
I don't kill that slot in the world that you are perpetrating to believe is the the world that we are in. I wait until night 2.

peta was killed when we have a fairly good idea that his reads weren't accurate. That means any "I wouldn't kill him because he was townreading me" defense is invalid. peta's reads weren't kill-worthy N1, yet he died N1. That means he wasn't killed for his reads. And if he wasn't killed for his reads and he wasn't killed for his role (which I don't think he was, unless he 'crumbed something that the scum saw which I did not), which means he was killed for a reason neither reads-related nor role-related.

What's left if not reputation?

And you would be among those who know of his reputation. It seems pretty clear that petapan was a fear-kill. Killed not for what he had said, but for the fear of what he had the

potential

to say. AKA, fear that his reads would shift from inaccurate to accurate.

The rest of every thing that Mastina said about me feels like lots and lots of walls of text to say the vibes are off, so :shurg:

Nope! I actually described what you are missing from your towngame and how your content has been disingenuous-as-fuck and how you're matching evidence to reads rather than reads to evidence.

[Titus]

Ausuka is so tilted atm.