Datisi's Café [game over!]

[Titus]

So you had to get all pissed to save your claim and you're balls deep to save Roden

[Titus]

Demi is my crush. So hot emotionally and physically but I hate tatoos on anyone else

drunk titus is hilarious i would have never expected to hear this from you

Total Titus is bi

[Titus]

Demi finally on gtg

[Lukewarm]

Luke fiiight me I dare uuuuu

[Lukewarm]

Oh were you planning on faking vig and Vivak true claimed first

Titus, I would love to see what posts you can pull up to support this idea, because this is one that is so out of left field I'd actually be impressed if you can manage to make it seem logical in some way.

(after you have the time of your life at the Demi concert, and sleep all of this off of course lol)

[Vivax]

Have fun !
Great posting.
Need to reread a lot of stuff clearly.

[Lukewarm]

Gonna current page this

he posted a lot of words equalling waaah Titus caught my partner for bad reasons

To be clear, my reasons to think Titus are scum are the following (trying to make it more succinct) :

-She tried to get ahead of the TMI reasoning, and shoot it down. Repeatedly saying that it was not TMI | 201 204
-She tried to set up SS as a pivot option away from Ircher, calling the TMI case a conveniently timed distraction from SS (while also, bafflingly still calling Ircher scum) | 221 243
-She then dropped the SS stuff, and hard doubled down on calling Ircher scum once the wagon got super serious. The timing looks like it is specifically because of the wagon size. |318 onward

-She also makes the most sense as someone wanting to kill Peta, because Peta was also scum reading her for the above reasons. | 362 371 438

[Vivax]

Nice google ad
‚the horse as friend and partner‘
Riding school Ragnarök

While Russia greenlights tactical shrooms
fml
Meanwhile I‘m looking for a brain that‘s similarly bazonks
Turns out we‘re living on it

[mastina]

I can tell you that this game I most certainly wouldn't have valued Ircher's life above my own and therefore had no reason to bus him. Yes he was deadweight, but deadweight can still be saved reasonably from a town perspective. (Could've sworn that article had a section where I say "your town self is stupider than you give yourself credit for", but oh well.)

So, why are you now acting like listing Ircher as your strongest scum read on page one is something that you "certainly wouldn't" have done this game as scum?

Because in

this

game, I wouldn't have. It's that simple, really. I didn't say I couldn't, or that in general I wouldn't. I said that in this game I wouldn't.

I meant exactly what I said. I might bus to set Ircher up in general. But in this game I wouldn't. In this game Ircher would explicitly be worth less than me. And I don't bus scum who are worth less than me; I only bus scum who are worth more than me. So in this game specifically, I wouldn't have bussed Ircher. I would have strong reason to not have done so. (Specifically, because of knowing about CONTROL. A big,

big

thing about my scumgames is that I avoid doing the same ploy twice. I bussed Ircher in CONTROL, which means that I

couldn't

bus Ircher in this game because everyone would know about how I did so in CONTROL. Bussing the same player the same way in two scumgames would mean that if the game has literally any of the same players or literally any player who looked at the previous game, they'd make the connection. It's surface-level stupidity to think I'd do the exact same move twice for the same scumbuddy.)

I‘m convinced some kind of distant perception exists over this forum game at times. I have been kinda essaying it throughout my games.
Sometimes I believe I can feel other‘s emotion‘s, not everyone‘s, not always.

Oh you might be an Empath, then. No, seriously. I am an empath and I have that exact same thing happen. I take on the emotions/feelings of those around me and have them as their own.
When people are sad, I get sad; when people radiate happiness, I become as happy as they are. I genuinely feel the emotions of others as my own emotions. Events that I have no emotional attachment to I get as emotional as the person who has the attachment to that event, feeling their feelings.

It works in person, but it also works online. I can pick up on the anger of someone and begin to feel angry myself. (This, ahhh...is not a good thing if someone is angry at me and I become angry at them.) I can pick up on a lot of emotions. It's not a 100% thing. It only works about 50-90% of the time. Where I have the connection established to be able to feel it.

So you're not wrong. It exists. It's real. It's a thing.

I

knew

there was a reason I instavibed with you in TFT.
(Empaths tend to have an easier time vibing with other empaths since they just collectively "get" experiences of each other.)

Can we at least pretend to SR her

I mean, we

could

, but I don't want anyone to on a later day look back at our dead bodies and point to our faked scumreads and go "see they were scumreading Ydrasse" when we're no longer able to make it clear that they were a joke.

Alas.

you've said why you think titus is town but not why luke's points come from scum

The two are intrinsically linked--it's

because

Titus is town for reasons that are fairly strong and obvious, that Lukewarm's points come from scum.

the a-ha factor point is reasonable ig, i wanted to know what specific mistakes in narratives he had tho

You literally just said I pointed out why Titus is town. The reasons I pointed out for Titus being town demonstrate the mistakes in Lukewarm's narrative.

Roden [5]:

mastina

, Andresvmb, Klick, Malakittens, Ydrasse

All of these people (and also Titus who voted since the vote count), really need to check in post his full claim and all of the interactions surrounding it, and declare that they still want to be voting him, or find a new place to be.

Nice attempt to paint the Roden wagon as a dead wagon but it ain't one.

The Roden wagon is still strong because the content relating to Roden since the votes cast does nothing to diminish why Roden is scum.

[mastina]

she ALREADY would have known that the value of her life vs the value of Irchers life was well outside the standard.

This is a scumslip from Lukewarm revealing he knows I'm town.

Because, uh: if I were scum with Ircher then I'd know the value of my life versus his from the moment I got my role PM--well before the first game posts of the game. I'd know which players were town (which gives me an idea of what the playerlist will think of me), and I'd know what our roles were.

The only way I wouldn't know the value is if I was town.

Luke just pissed I made a real case on his buddy and wants me to actually validate his arguments.

This is true. Lukewarm is desperate to dissolve the Roden wagon.

It's because the scum know they're fucked if they lose another member.

Kinda wild how all of Roden/Lukewarm/fire have gone harder and harder into defending one another as the day has progressed, isn't it?

Like, I can quote their posts from earlier in the game and demonstrate how their reads on each other differed in that gamestate.
And how the game has progressed especially on D2 they've gone harder and harder into defending one another.
And how as the day has progressed, they've grown more and more desperate to wagon any player not Roden.

[mastina]

Mastina told her to back her up in the scum chat

Funny, that seems to be what you/Lukewarm/fire keep doing for each other.

Like, it's literally there in your isos, how you've gone from varying reads on each other to over time defending each other more and more.

[mastina]

Luke just pissed I made a real case on his buddy and wants me to actually validate his arguments.

This is true. Lukewarm is desperate to dissolve the Roden wagon.

It's because the scum know they're fucked if they lose another member.

Kinda wild how all of Roden/Lukewarm/fire have gone harder and harder into defending one another as the day has progressed, isn't it?

Like, I can quote their posts from earlier in the game and demonstrate how their reads on each other differed in that gamestate.
And how the game has progressed especially on D2 they've gone harder and harder into defending one another.
And how as the day has progressed, they've grown more and more desperate to wagon any player not Roden.

Mastina told her to back her up in the scum chat

Funny, that seems to be what you/Lukewarm/fire keep doing for each other.

Like, it's literally there in your isos, how you've gone from varying reads on each other to over time defending each other more and more.

This is dead serious btw.

Anyone caring to do the research, you can check this!

Check Lukewarm's read progression on Roden and fireisredsir.
Check Roden's read progression on Lukewarm and fireisredsir.
Check fireisredsir's read progression on Lukewarm and Roden.

Especially on D2.

You can also check where they are pushing, too.

[mastina]

Oh were you planning on faking vig and Vivak true claimed first

For the record: anyone with any semblance of doubt that Titus is town need look no further than drunk-Titus's post here.

The tinfoil theory that Lukewarm is scum who planned to fakeclaim vig before Vivax realclaimed it is one that I don't think Titus could come up with if she were scum--and even if she

could

, certainly not while

drunk

could she explain/out this theory so fluently.

[mastina]

Gonna current page this

Y'know Lukewarm for someone accusing others of not reevaluating Roden off of new info...

...You sure seem to not be reevaluating Titus off of new info!

Gee, I wonder why there's this inconsistency between your stance/approach on Roden, and your stance/approach on Titus.

[Klick]

I struggle to believe that town!Mastina actually has this level of certainty on her Ircher read without that, and I think it makes much more sense that this is a patent pending, Mastina designed, scum/scum partner interaction.

I went back to find this game just for you! I hope I get town points for this.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=79906

In this game mastina decides in, like, RVS? Basically the start of the game, she decides her order of suspects is exactly Pine -> Lavender -> Ausuka -> ofrhz.

She maintains this stance *throughout the entire game*. Like, her reasoning changes and evolves, but the reads are incredibly static, right from the RVS phase.

And she was town in this game!

I think the obvious answer here is - mastina thinks Ircher's page 1 is obviously scum because she decided at the start of the game that she was going to scumread Ircher? And while I wouldn't make a bet, I feel like this meta has been brought up in the thread, so I'm surprised you find it scummy?

Town points to Gryffindor

KLICK! CROSS OFF AUSUKA!

If we are using self meta logic though Ircher and I were friends back in the day and rolling scum with him would've been awesome so I never would have bussed him this game

You guys should clear me too

I'm sold

[mastina]

Spoiler: prior

LOCKTOWN:
{Vivax, jjh927, Something_Smart}
{PenguinPower} (almost part of above)
{Ydrasse, Uncrowned, Andresvmb, furtiveglance, Ausuka}

SOFT TOWN:
{Klick}

{Malakittens, Titus}

POE POSSIBLE SCUM:
{RCEnigma}

LIKELY SCUM:
{fireisredsir}

SCUM:
{Lukewarm}

{Roden}

Vivax, jjh, and Something_Smart are all locktown for different, but closely linked, reasons. They have all shown a towntell that I believe demonstrates they

cannot

be scum here and absolutely must be town. All look town to me by play anyway, but that tell has me convinced each of them is town.

PenguinPower

is almost up there, because I believe PP spotted

half

of what I saw on S_S, but not the half which makes S_S town. S_S towntold in a way that cannot be scum, but if you saw only half of it, you'd think the opposite, that S_S spewed himself as scum. I have to be quite tight-lipped about this to not reveal what it is tho, but I think that PP seeing half makes him town.

Ydrasse

,

Uncrowned

, and

Andresvmp

are purely play-based reads without the secret towntell present. I'm still sticking to this being Ydrasse's towngame. It's weaker than before, but Ydrasse radiated town earlier in a way I don't think is scum. Uncrowned's content has constantly been town. I've loved Andres's D2 posting (some in particular), and there's not enough room on a scumteam for both him and Malakittens so Malakittens trusting him is enough to bolster him to here regardless of Malakittens's alignment. He should always be town here and I

see

it.

furtiveglance

I initially had a tier below, but I decided after thinking about the people townreading furtive today's reasons, that I agreed with them. Was town D1 in an incredibly town way and I think is still worthy of the locktown tier today.

Ausuka

I had as below furtive but still at hard-town, yet I've decided to move Ausuka here after reviewing my reason for townreading Ausuka before, and I feel it still holds. Ausuka's play is incredibly anti-partner with Ircher in a way genuinely anti-partnery and with towntells that I believe are genuinely towntells. The whole exchange just looks town.

Klick

looks to be playing town, but not quite as strongly as others. It looks like what I'd expect from him as town, but I don't know what he looks like as scum. He's reasonable, he's making good posts, so his content is definitely town-sounding at the least, but I've no metric to guarantee it is the same way as I do my stronger reads.

Malakittens

would be locktown if not for a couple factors.
The first is that Malakittens was off the wagon, where I expect there to be 1-2 scum.
The second is that both the scum nightkills (confirmed to be Nero/peta per Vivax claiming the BBT vig) are the two players I would expect Mala to nightkill if she were scum. Nero wasn't widely townread, but Malakittens is one of the few players to know of Nero back in his glory days of when he was his most dangerous. Nero also knows Malakittens pretty well I'm pretty sure, so of all the players in the game, she has more incentive than almost any other to kill him.
Similarly so for petapan. I've never seen his towngame in full-swing before, but allegedly, it's pretty damn good from what I'm told. (I believe it, it's just that I've personally never seen it.) This means that basically anyone could/would kill him, but for some reason I seem to recall that peta/Malakittens have some sort of history too which if this memory is correct would make Mala want to kill him.

These factors keep Malakittens from being locktown, but she's still more likely town than not on her strength of play. It's purely NKA/VCA that implicates she

could

be scum and I trust my scumhunting-by-play tools more than I trust my NKA/VCA tools.

Titus

is at a similar level of divided read. Her play does

not

match her meta of being scum with Ircher. She protects her scumbuddies, and makes effort to make sure they don't fall. Her play with Ircher is highly indicative of that not being the case. All of this makes her highly likely to be town. But, a lot of her play feels like her scumgame and there are many things which feel "off" about her. So she's more divided, but also overall more town than not imo.

RCEnigma

has been null the entire game, but at this stage, 'null' with this many players with compelling reasons to be town is quite possibly indicative of scum.
He's not been strongly present in a way suggesting town. His content is highly forgettable. When he is town, I expect to remember his posts, and to have a lot of them be agreeable. But while he's making some reasonable reads, his posts overall feel lackluster. He's someone that it's easy to forget is in the game, which is a red flag indicative of possible scum.

fireisredsir

fits as the scum off the wagon, and by play radiates being scum. I feel Vivax caught a good scumslip from fire, and fire just gives off the vibe of being scum. There's plenty of small things that add up here.

Lukewarm

fits as the scum on the wagon, and by play radiates being scum. Though on D2 I'm sensing more stylistic similarities to Lukewarm's towngame, the D2 content is highly pro-scum in nature, looking to be scum that is in a tight spot and is trying to figure out a way to avoid a town sweep.

Roden

is scum ten times over in ten different ways. I'm never voting elsewhere, not even to vote another scumread. I'm not gonna lie, it ain't as strong as Ircher, but it's

pretty damn close

. If Ircher was 99% scum, then Roden is like 97%. I'll be honest tho, the main difference in that 2% is essentially, "I never catch two scum in a row. I always think I do, but I never

actually

do. I caught Ircher so I couldn't have genuinely caught a second, could I?"
Because by every other metric, yeah Roden should be as strong a scumread as Ircher. Genuinely the only reason Roden is weaker is that paranoia of me never normally being this competent.
But I'll go with the theory that I was a PROPHET when I said I'd be a SCUMHUNTING GOD, and that therefore I am indeed accurate here.

LOCKTOWN:
{Vivax, jjh927, Something_Smart, PenguinPower}
{Andresvmb, furtiveglance} (to be clear, this is them moving up, not the others moving down)
{Ydrasse, Uncrowned, Ausuka} (to be clear this is the above moving up, not these moving down)

TOWN:
{Klick}

SOFT TOWN:
{Titus}

SOMEWHERE BETWEEN ABOVE AND BELOW TIERS:
{Malakittens}

POE POSSIBLE SCUM:
{RCEnigma}

LIKELY SCUM:
{fireisredsir}

SCUM:
{Lukewarm}

{Roden}

I'm confident in locktowning

PenguinPower

here based on his contributions here with everything I've seen here.

Andresvmp

continues to be looking better and better, looking more and more town, and I trust Malakittens's read there regardless of Mala's alignment.

furtiveglance

continues to be looking better, looking more and more town.

The other locktown remain locktown, just not having recently contributed much.

Klick

is doing much I think to be town, but not in a quality that makes me absolutely

sure

he's town. He's doing all town things, it's just that I don't know his scum capabilities and he's not posting as much as the others who I am confident in their townness.

Titus

would be much higher up based on the players pushing her and her meta, but there's a strength of read thing going on. She's not so much a weak townread so much as it is that all the others are just that much stronger townreads.

Malakittens

has VCA and NKA implicating her and her contributions have mostly been saying Andres is town, so she's not doing all of much. However, while it's definitely possible she's scum if 2/4 of my scumreads are town, I don't really think she is right now; her content still looks town to me.

RCEnigma

is doing basically nothing. And for him, that is concerning. His reads look good, but his content? Not so much. He's only not scum because I have three stronger reads pretty much.

LOCKTOWN:
{Vivax, jjh927, Something_Smart, PenguinPower}
{Andresvmb, furtiveglance}
{Ydrasse, Uncrowned, Ausuka, Titus}

TOWN:
{Klick}

??? (tbh):
{Malakittens}

POE POSSIBLE SCUM:
{RCEnigma}

LIKELY SCUM:
{fireisredsir}

SCUM:
{Lukewarm}

{Roden}

I'm comfortable moving Titus up to locktown at this point to be honest. There's just too much she has going for her. Departure from her established patterns as scum; content posted; consistent counterwagon to scum; pushers of her elimination largely being suspect; play more clearly being town; etc.

Any individual thing wouldn't be enough, but collectively as a whole I'm comfortable with that locktown read right now.

[Klick]

Roden [5]:

mastina

, Andresvmb, Klick, Malakittens, Ydrasse

All of these people (and also Titus who voted since the vote count), really need to check in post his full claim and all of the interactions surrounding it, and declare that they still want to be voting him, or find a new place to be.

I feel like there has been a lot of Roden things that happened since these votes were cast, but very little of the people voting there really reacting to them.

I dont think Roden's claim and posts around it do anything to help him really

[Klick]

I think the scumteam is trying to feel out if they can get mastina eliminated today because they feel trapped by her influence and accurate perception of the game

[Roden]

Who's voting Mastina?

[Roden]

\
Check Roden's read progression on Lukewarm and fireisredsir.

Especially on D2.

Read progression on Luke: I said he's town

Read progression on Fire:

[furtiveglance]

Roden, does your role cost 0% ot 5% with a 0% modifier? What's 0%?

[Roden]

Are we seriously doing this again

[furtiveglance]

Pls

[furtiveglance]

You just posted 0%, now townlock me. Idk what it was in answer to

[Datisi]

;