Datisi's Café [game over!]

[Dannflor]

Mastina, can you elaborate on your Uncrowned and Andres reads? I feel like you keep skipping right over them

[Lukewarm]

Like...You consider a lot of things at once in parallel, but don‘t really point and shoot. I hope this doesn‘t come across as mischaracterizing, but it‘s what keeps me sus on you.

This is accurate; Lukewarm is missing the "A-HA!!!" factor.

Making the cases he has is not an a-ha! factor; making the cases he has is having predetermined the outcome and writing the evidence to fit that narrative.

but what about that do you think is specific to luke being scum?

Because Luke is thorough and meticulous as town and absolutely methodical. His towngame is well-thought-out and doesn't make the ""mistakes"" in narrative he has made this game.

This is the part that felt the same way

Subject: Mini 2254 | Subreddit uPick | Fin

I was in a "monkery" with Mastina, and she did not claim to be a mason (or a monk for that matter). To be fair, it makes more sense to not claim it when you are actually in one.
This is a pointless observation. If she fake claims it enough for you to say this, it is moot. I just found it interesting in an NAI kind of way.
~Luke

HURT: The Bombay

To be clear, this is a scumclaim in of itself from Luke. Both in portrayal of that game and in content from Luke. I don't believe this is a town-Lukewarm

Subject: Mini 2254 | Subreddit uPick | Fin

*why* is that a scumclaim from luke? Why is this not something town-luke would think?

Because it's an incredibly un-Luketown analysis to make, basically.

Just coming in, saying that my methodology is too perfect as town, and not perfect in this game, therefore I am scum. Also, some amorphous difference on top of that. Both points designed to be un-interactable.


And it has been just a bunch of series of back to back things that jump out to me as the same as every scumstina I have seen.

[Lukewarm]

I have strong urges to townbin Dann.

it *feels* like he is either town, or he is writing specifically for me, and I don't think that I am in a position to be catered to lol

[Dannflor]

I see your points - I think unfortunately the rather stubborn push on you isn't immediately alignment indicative. I think Mastina tends to dig in her heels early and often as either alignment, and it only becomes apparent over time how genuine her stubbornness is.
Definitely not a slot that I'm just not going to reevaluate until D4 or whatever

[Dannflor]

Do you have experience with her town meta too?

[Vivax]

VOTE: Lukewarm

b-b-beats

[Dannflor]

eyebrow raise

[Lukewarm]

Do you have experience with her town meta too?

Yeah. Off the top of my head FGO 2 and NQN 1 (she was scum in NQN 2, but town in NQN 1), but pretty sure more then that that I am just not thinking of.

[Lukewarm]

I see your points - I think unfortunately the rather stubborn push on you isn't immediately alignment indicative. I think Mastina tends to dig in her heels early and often as either alignment, and it only becomes apparent over time how genuine her stubbornness is.
Definitely not a slot that I'm just not going to reevaluate until D4 or whatever

I will go back and look at those town games I guess

[Lukewarm]

I just read through her Day 1 isos from NQN1, FGO2, and then this game again -- and it feels like a night and day difference to me.

I'll give that game Ausuka linked to me a try, but so far this has just made me more sure she is scum

[Lukewarm]

I went back to find this game just for you! I hope I get town points for this.

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=79906

In this game mastina decides in, like, RVS? Basically the start of the game, she decides her order of suspects is exactly Pine -> Lavender -> Ausuka -> ofrhz.

This game has a 5 headed hydra, that is not playing on a hydra account. Just all 5 people on, and posting. They were listed in the vote counts as just... the 5 names as a list, with just 1 vote. Quite possibly the worst thing I have seen.

-----

Anyways lol

I do see that her reads are unchanged throughout that game (and also all 4 of those names were town lol), but it still feels different to me, the way she she talks about those reads.

Like, I did a control f for Pine, then Lavender, then Ausuka in that game. To compare how she talked about Ircher and me and Roden. And it just feels so different. But also, this game is over 3 years old. I feel weird even trying to use it really, because "different" is to be expected. So :shrug:

Maybe my own way of describing it was imprecise. Because it is also the way she is pushing her reads page 1 reads this game, not just that she had page 1 reads.

I am aware that she likes to do her quote a post, say only the word town/scum, then move on early in the game, and that is not really what I was having issue with.

[Lukewarm]

To be fair, the Ausuka game feels like a less Night and Day difference when I read through it.

Almost like a middle ground between the feeling I get reading (this one and her scum games NQN2/Control) and (the town games I have actually played with her FGO2/NQN1)

[Vivax]

After my intimidating pressure vote, Luke finally delivered
The temperature doesn‘t correspond to the usual name.

UNVOTE:

I really didn‘t like the wrong person to cater to part.
While I still sus Uncrowned, the S_S pick could have some merit

VOTE: S_S

[mastina]

Okay I have a new hot take:

One, but not both, of {Lukewarm, Dannflor} are scum.

They are

not

scumbuddies, but they are

not

both town.

Their interactions already have me sure that they're not partnered together but both look like scum interacting with town, if that makes sense. One of them is town being interacted with by scum; the other is scum interacting with town.

I think that fireisredsir is scum regardless and Roden remains scum regardless and the proof that Roden is scum regardless lies in the fact that the scum keep on trying Titus/Something_Smart counterwagons to Roden and the composition of the Roden wagon has remained basically pure as pure can be the entire time so is towndriven.

[mastina]

(Have read, will back that reading with commentary now, obv.)

[Dannflor]

I don’t think so

[mastina]

Okay I have a new hot take:

One, but not both, of {Lukewarm, Dannflor} are scum.

They are

not

scumbuddies, but they are

not

both town.

(Basically, I know it's been a while since I've seen Dannflor play as a replacement, but this doesn't look like his town-replacement approach. The formatting, the subjects he's engaged in, his focus, where he is looking, how he is engaging, etc. All of it lacks the Dannflor replacement flair I expect from him.

But he's 100% never scum with Lukewarm here from their interactions with each other. Their interactions are

not

scum-scum. It's not how scumbuddies talk to each other. It's way too organic, way too fluid, way too natural, way too unscripted, as it were. They cannot be scum having this back-and-forth fluently, so there is only one scum in the two.

Yet Lukewarm also radiates scum with everything he is doing for much of the same reason--where he has focused, the formatting, what he is engaged in, a lack of reassessment when faced with new info, etc.

Since neither Lukewarm nor Dannflor are my focus for today, we can put off sorting there until tomorrow tho, I'll figure it out then ideally when cross-referenced with fireisredsir.)

[mastina]

I think the scumteam is trying to feel out if they can get mastina eliminated today because they feel trapped by her influence and accurate perception of the game

This.

There's no

votes

on me, sure. But there's a specific subset of players who suspect me. While there's a few among them that are town, I think it no coincidence that most are my scumreads.

Keep in mind also that the scum don't need to vote me to try and fight my influence--just trying to discredit my credibility by saying I could be scum is enough to dissuade folks from following me.

[Dannflor]

Okay I have a new hot take:

One, but not both, of {Lukewarm, Dannflor} are scum.

They are

not

scumbuddies, but they are

not

both town.

Their interactions already have me sure that they're not partnered together but both look like scum interacting with town, if that makes sense. One of them is town being interacted with by scum; the other is scum interacting with town.

This doesn’t make sense and you should be reevaluating more if you simultaneously see us both as scum interacting with town and as not aligned

Either you are just seeing exactly what you want to see or you are intentionally trying to create this narrative that shouldn’t make sense from your perspective

[Dannflor]

Like right now you’re discrediting both me and Lukewarm by calling us both strongly possible scum but simultaneously saying you can’t sort us right now

It feels like you’re only doing this because we disagree with you

If you really believe one (or as I think both) of us is town, why the hell aren’t you more curious about finding that out?

[Dannflor]

Like according to you

One of us is town and has a very different take on the game

Do you think there might not be some value to what we have to say?

Why haven’t you engaged with my opening post at all except to vaguely discredit it as “not my town replacement meta” which is false btw

I think you have the ability to genuinely try and sort me but the refusal to has me very worried

[Dannflor]

Maybe this isn’t a productive line to go down, I’m not sure

I would like explanations on your uncrowned and Andres reads if you’re going to engage with anything

[mastina]

It's a trait that backfires easily. Is why I mostly prefer to be on my own with nothing but my thoughts. And often look like I'm daydreaming around others.

Yeah the "zone-out" effect is real. It's ridiculously easy to get overstimulated and just...not "be there", as it were.

Being by myself is peaceful, calm, serene, since I know it to be free of the influence of others. (That said, my thoughts are sadly not always the best, butstill. At least when by myself, I know they're mine, not those of someone else.)

definitely not seeing fire-scum

I'll probably be able to sell you on fire-scum tomorrow with relative ease, but it's not worth tackling today.

I think Mastina, Lukewarm, Titus, and Roden are all town

Then who would you propose as scum?

It's

not

Something_Smart. There's only one circumstance I can ever see Something_Smart being scum in and testing it is not the play today. So who's scum?

Spoiler: prior

LOCKTOWN:
{Vivax, jjh927, Something_Smart}
{PenguinPower} (almost part of above)
{Ydrasse, Uncrowned, Andresvmb, furtiveglance, Ausuka}

SOFT TOWN:
{Klick}

{Malakittens, Titus}

POE POSSIBLE SCUM:
{RCEnigma}

LIKELY SCUM:
{fireisredsir}

SCUM:
{Lukewarm}

{Roden}

Vivax, jjh, and Something_Smart are all locktown for different, but closely linked, reasons. They have all shown a towntell that I believe demonstrates they

cannot

be scum here and absolutely must be town. All look town to me by play anyway, but that tell has me convinced each of them is town.

PenguinPower

is almost up there, because I believe PP spotted

half

of what I saw on S_S, but not the half which makes S_S town. S_S towntold in a way that cannot be scum, but if you saw only half of it, you'd think the opposite, that S_S spewed himself as scum. I have to be quite tight-lipped about this to not reveal what it is tho, but I think that PP seeing half makes him town.

Ydrasse

,

Uncrowned

, and

Andresvmp

are purely play-based reads without the secret towntell present. I'm still sticking to this being Ydrasse's towngame. It's weaker than before, but Ydrasse radiated town earlier in a way I don't think is scum. Uncrowned's content has constantly been town. I've loved Andres's D2 posting (some in particular), and there's not enough room on a scumteam for both him and Malakittens so Malakittens trusting him is enough to bolster him to here regardless of Malakittens's alignment. He should always be town here and I

see

it.

furtiveglance

I initially had a tier below, but I decided after thinking about the people townreading furtive today's reasons, that I agreed with them. Was town D1 in an incredibly town way and I think is still worthy of the locktown tier today.

Ausuka

I had as below furtive but still at hard-town, yet I've decided to move Ausuka here after reviewing my reason for townreading Ausuka before, and I feel it still holds. Ausuka's play is incredibly anti-partner with Ircher in a way genuinely anti-partnery and with towntells that I believe are genuinely towntells. The whole exchange just looks town.

Klick

looks to be playing town, but not quite as strongly as others. It looks like what I'd expect from him as town, but I don't know what he looks like as scum. He's reasonable, he's making good posts, so his content is definitely town-sounding at the least, but I've no metric to guarantee it is the same way as I do my stronger reads.

Malakittens

would be locktown if not for a couple factors.
The first is that Malakittens was off the wagon, where I expect there to be 1-2 scum.
The second is that both the scum nightkills (confirmed to be Nero/peta per Vivax claiming the BBT vig) are the two players I would expect Mala to nightkill if she were scum. Nero wasn't widely townread, but Malakittens is one of the few players to know of Nero back in his glory days of when he was his most dangerous. Nero also knows Malakittens pretty well I'm pretty sure, so of all the players in the game, she has more incentive than almost any other to kill him.
Similarly so for petapan. I've never seen his towngame in full-swing before, but allegedly, it's pretty damn good from what I'm told. (I believe it, it's just that I've personally never seen it.) This means that basically anyone could/would kill him, but for some reason I seem to recall that peta/Malakittens have some sort of history too which if this memory is correct would make Mala want to kill him.

These factors keep Malakittens from being locktown, but she's still more likely town than not on her strength of play. It's purely NKA/VCA that implicates she

could

be scum and I trust my scumhunting-by-play tools more than I trust my NKA/VCA tools.

Titus

is at a similar level of divided read. Her play does

not

match her meta of being scum with Ircher. She protects her scumbuddies, and makes effort to make sure they don't fall. Her play with Ircher is highly indicative of that not being the case. All of this makes her highly likely to be town. But, a lot of her play feels like her scumgame and there are many things which feel "off" about her. So she's more divided, but also overall more town than not imo.

RCEnigma

has been null the entire game, but at this stage, 'null' with this many players with compelling reasons to be town is quite possibly indicative of scum.
He's not been strongly present in a way suggesting town. His content is highly forgettable. When he is town, I expect to remember his posts, and to have a lot of them be agreeable. But while he's making some reasonable reads, his posts overall feel lackluster. He's someone that it's easy to forget is in the game, which is a red flag indicative of possible scum.

fireisredsir

fits as the scum off the wagon, and by play radiates being scum. I feel Vivax caught a good scumslip from fire, and fire just gives off the vibe of being scum. There's plenty of small things that add up here.

Lukewarm

fits as the scum on the wagon, and by play radiates being scum. Though on D2 I'm sensing more stylistic similarities to Lukewarm's towngame, the D2 content is highly pro-scum in nature, looking to be scum that is in a tight spot and is trying to figure out a way to avoid a town sweep.

Roden

is scum ten times over in ten different ways. I'm never voting elsewhere, not even to vote another scumread. I'm not gonna lie, it ain't as strong as Ircher, but it's

pretty damn close

. If Ircher was 99% scum, then Roden is like 97%. I'll be honest tho, the main difference in that 2% is essentially, "I never catch two scum in a row. I always think I do, but I never

actually

do. I caught Ircher so I couldn't have genuinely caught a second, could I?"
Because by every other metric, yeah Roden should be as strong a scumread as Ircher. Genuinely the only reason Roden is weaker is that paranoia of me never normally being this competent.
But I'll go with the theory that I was a PROPHET when I said I'd be a SCUMHUNTING GOD, and that therefore I am indeed accurate here.

LOCKTOWN:
{Vivax, jjh927, Something_Smart, PenguinPower}
{Andresvmb, furtiveglance} (to be clear, this is them moving up, not the others moving down)
{Ydrasse, Uncrowned, Ausuka} (to be clear this is the above moving up, not these moving down)

TOWN:
{Klick}

SOFT TOWN:
{Titus}

SOMEWHERE BETWEEN ABOVE AND BELOW TIERS:
{Malakittens}

POE POSSIBLE SCUM:
{RCEnigma}

LIKELY SCUM:
{fireisredsir}

SCUM:
{Lukewarm}

{Roden}

I'm confident in locktowning

PenguinPower

here based on his contributions here with everything I've seen here.

Andresvmp

continues to be looking better and better, looking more and more town, and I trust Malakittens's read there regardless of Mala's alignment.

furtiveglance

continues to be looking better, looking more and more town.

The other locktown remain locktown, just not having recently contributed much.

Klick

is doing much I think to be town, but not in a quality that makes me absolutely

sure

he's town. He's doing all town things, it's just that I don't know his scum capabilities and he's not posting as much as the others who I am confident in their townness.

Titus

would be much higher up based on the players pushing her and her meta, but there's a strength of read thing going on. She's not so much a weak townread so much as it is that all the others are just that much stronger townreads.

Malakittens

has VCA and NKA implicating her and her contributions have mostly been saying Andres is town, so she's not doing all of much. However, while it's definitely possible she's scum if 2/4 of my scumreads are town, I don't really think she is right now; her content still looks town to me.

RCEnigma

is doing basically nothing. And for him, that is concerning. His reads look good, but his content? Not so much. He's only not scum because I have three stronger reads pretty much.

LOCKTOWN:
{Vivax, jjh927, Something_Smart, PenguinPower}
{Andresvmb, furtiveglance}
{Ydrasse, Uncrowned, Ausuka, Titus}

TOWN:
{Klick}

??? (tbh):
{Malakittens}

POE POSSIBLE SCUM:
{RCEnigma}

LIKELY SCUM:
{fireisredsir}

SCUM:
{Lukewarm}

{Roden}

I'm comfortable moving Titus up to locktown at this point to be honest. There's just too much she has going for her. Departure from her established patterns as scum; content posted; consistent counterwagon to scum; pushers of her elimination largely being suspect; play more clearly being town; etc.

Any individual thing wouldn't be enough, but collectively as a whole I'm comfortable with that locktown read right now.

You are town.
Vivax is town.
PenguinPower is town.
I'm quite confident in Andres and furtive both being town.
Titus is town.
Ausuka is quite likely to be town.
Uncrowned has a ton making the slot town.
Ydrasse's play has gotten weaker but is still more town than not.
Klick has only gotten more and more town the more he posts.

So who is scum?

Malakittens? Possible from NKA/VCA but her play looks town.
RCE/Dannflor? Well if Lukewarm is town, yes. 1/2 of them is town and the other is scum so if Lukewarm were town then the RCE/Dannflor slot would be scum.
fireisredsir? Well explicitly so yeah.

But there really isn't a lot of slots who

can

be scum.

It's not just that I have strong scumreads on the slots I am scumreading. (Altho that is also true.)

It's that I have strong townreads on the vast majority of the game, which leaves only a ridiculously small pool for possible scum.

[mastina]

Oh were you planning on faking vig and Vivak true claimed first

For the record: anyone with any semblance of doubt that Titus is town need look no further than drunk-Titus's post here.

The tinfoil theory that Lukewarm is scum who planned to fakeclaim vig before Vivax realclaimed it is one that I don't think Titus could come up with if she were scum--and even if she

could

, certainly not while

drunk

could she explain/out this theory so fluently.

I don't find her coming up with a reason to push me town indicative, and also your bar for "so fluently" is broken lol

My metric is working just fine.

Titus coming up with reasons to push you is not town-indicative.

Titus coming up with

that specific theory

while

drunk

is town-indicative.

Titus was fluent in being able to explain her theory and her viewpoint. She was drunk, so her thoughts were broken and fragmented, but the narrative was still explained well enough to get her point across. She explained her theory while heavily not sober and also highly distracted. It was not a preplanned thing.

Titus as scum is meticulous in her planning. She doesn't do things on a whim. She doesn't do things spontaneously. She is calculating and thorough. But her drunk posting lacked that precision. Titus drunkposting is not a towntell in of itself, mind you. Because Titus can and has been drunk as scum before. But when a scum-Titus has been drunk before, she has never produced a whole-scale theory on a faked scumread she wanted to push.

Titus didn't get drunk and come into the thread with a plan to present a theory. Titus got drunk and came into the thread and did posting which happened to give a theory. The distinction is important. It hard-townspews Titus because while any individual aspect could come from scum, it is the whole altogether that absolutely cannot.

Titus could come up with reasons to push you as scum.
Titus could drunkpost as scum.
Titus could plan out reasons to push you.
Titus could as scum drunkpost things that don't add anything new.

But Titus developing a tinfoil reason for you to be scum while drunk, without planning, is proof that she is never scum here.

And the only reason my suspicion on you isn't growing is because I actually think Dannflor is scum more than you, right now. (No seriously.)

[Dannflor]

Mastina I have this sinking gut feeling that you are town and that scum is currently playing around you specifically and pocketing you

I would love a good faith effort to sort me but that feels like not the direction you’re headed in