Datisi's Café [game over!]

[Datisi]

vote count 2.12

with 17 votes in play, it takes 9 to make a decision. day 2 ends in (expired on 2022-10-04 01:00:00).

firing

Roden [7]:

mastina, Andresvmb, Malakittens, Ydrasse, Titus, Uncrowned, PenguinPower

Titus [5]:

Roden, Lukewarm, Ausuka, Dannflor, Vivax

Malakittens [1]:

furtiveglance

Dannflor [1]:

fireisredsir

not voting [3]:

jjh927, Something_Smart, Klick

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▶ ❚❚ ─────────────────●─────────────  1:35 / 2:09

[Datisi]

prodding fireisredsir.

[Uncrowned]

The onus is on you at that point because you made it clear you wanted to case me D2, but you just never did.

this is also a misrep and not indicative at all on how our interaction went down

look at what i posted and quoted and try again. you claimed i didn't engage you, i did. you never ended up responding to the last thing i said. interaction over.

but now all of a sudden it was my responsibility to get back to you while you were getting run up by other slots? after you had clearly ignored/disregarded the whole point of what i had said to you D1? you know, the entire premise of my read? what's the point on following this up when you clearly didn't see my point of view as worth responding to in the first place? want me to clog the thread up with other shit while you're getting called out on your claim? i'm not a mechanical player and it's not something i particularly care for. bad luck. if you want to pick and choose when someone interacts with you, that's on you. don't try and spin it any other way.

[Uncrowned]

Uncrowned what do you think of the idea scum might be bussing Roden

not impossible but unlikely, i would say

[Uncrowned]

I also think it's telling that you put me at E-1 and weren't afraid at all that I would self-hammer here as scum to end the day early and deny town more conversation time.

can anyone at all explain how this isn't the most fabricated thing they've seen this game and why

this just has to be scum right this can't be a real line of thinking

[Roden]

Why are you so desperate to discredit someone you think will flip scum and has no sway or power in the game?

Like you just get town spewed if I flip red, right?

[Uncrowned]

mhm!

[Vivax]

Uncrowned what do you think of the idea scum might be bussing Roden

not impossible but unlikely, i would say

Hard at work here to avoid that

Spoiler:

[Vivax]

Why are you so desperate to discredit someone you think will flip scum and has no sway or power in the game?

Like you just get town spewed if I flip red, right?

Though you could do a readslist or something
If you're scum, remember to go into anti-spew and post the opposite of the actual alignments.
Also remember to troll your browser on the regular so it trolls you back. It's really conscious already.

[Uncrowned]

Why are you so

desperate

to discredit someone you think will flip scum and has no sway or power in the game?

Like you just get town spewed if I flip red, right?

notice as well the complete disregard for not only calling out the fabricated E-1 thing, but everything i said as well about out interaction prior, instead opting to just... do whatever this is.

this is scum basically giving up and throwing shit on the wall hoping something sticks. if you really cared about the interaction like you pretended to, this would not be your approach.

desperation would be the word, yes.

[Vivax]

I believe mastina's reads have strong potential to be very good from early on. So I'll let her know I may or may not just be fueling the CW for *reasons* and she shouldn't take my suspicions too seriously, I'm not gonna tunnel. Just in case that it's been frustrating lol. But not a townlock.
This game must be insanely frustrating for scum. Looking at the wagons I could even see Fire/Dann/Roden team atm, or at least the votes look that way to me.

[Vivax]

If I muse a bit about psychology, I'd wager that one of the lessons I learned is that in the dark triad, a narcissistic empath is the poison that unmasks the machiavellian psychopath

[Lukewarm]

This game must be insanely frustrating for scum. Looking at the wagons I could even see Fire/Dann/Roden team atm, or at least the votes look that way to me.

So why are you fighting a roden elim??

[Vivax]

Strategic reasons and improving mafia morale

[Titus]

I believe mastina's reads have strong potential to be very good from early on. So I'll let her know I may or may not just be fueling the CW for *reasons* and she shouldn't take my suspicions too seriously, I'm not gonna tunnel. Just in case that it's been frustrating lol. But not a townlock.
This game must be insanely frustrating for scum. Looking at the wagons I could even see Fire/Dann/Roden team atm, or at least the votes look that way to me.

This is what I figured. This response for VCA is telling.

[Titus]

Hi. This is me.

Good luck scum.

[Vivax]

Quite awe-inspiring ngl

[Titus]

Thanks. That's the goal.

I have an inner theory as to why it's me opposed to a lurker, but it has zero foundation so I'm sitting on it for now.

[Ausuka]

Hmm, I mean, it's possible that I'm onto literally nothing here. I think it'd help if you tell me how you think scum in general tend to think about the game and their partners in particular? It doesn't have to be too long.

I am not 100% sure what you are asking, because "how scum think about the game" Is not something that you can really answer with an answer that is not too long. When I am scum, my thoughts on the game state are constantly shifting, so hard to define. I don't think how scum act "in general" is super useful metric, because individual situations call for individual responses - Also shifts away from how different people play scum. For example, I don't think I have the guts to put all 3 of my scum partners right in a row in the bottom of my scum reads (or town reads for that matter), but I have seen multiple other people do exactly that (Mastina and Not Known 15 off the top of my head)

Spoiler: Most basic goals being

Blending in. A Large portion of your energy goes to just, looking like you would look if you were town.

Identifying threats - those are the night kill targets.

Identifying the Mislim pool - hoping they get eliminated with out you looking like scum on their flip. So your arguments have to be reasonable, and you probably want to be the 2nd or 3rd loudest voice calling for their head, not the first person people think of when the flip comes back town.

Making yourself look not partnered with your partners, and to look partnered with townies.

----

You asked for partners in particular, and like I said the end goal is to not looked partnered and purposefully treating each partner differently such that on one flip, it does not make the other obvious.

Planting your selves loudly on opposite ends of arguments is decent for this. In my last scum game, I was one of the loudest voices in favor of mass claim, and my partner was one of the loudest voices against mass claim. The idea being to look like they were a part of a scum team afraid of being outed in a mass claim, and I was a part of a scum team that thought they needed the PRs outed. So if one of us flipped, the other would appear to not make sense in the same scum team.

----

All of that is unrelated to my point. Because I am talking about how scum would interact with a Town vig tunneled on a Townie. Like that is the dream scenario for scum wrt to a vig. I don't think that scum go out of their way to mess that up.

(I am aware that this appears to have already happened, but in reference to when the posts were made) The moment the vig comes out of that tunnel is the moment he becomes a threat to the scum team again.

Hmm, I get where you're coming from in the abstract, and I agree it's good to craft reads individually. In practise I feel like it's probably incredibly difficult to have a mental profile for every player in a game like this, though.

My personal impression is that scum are very often hesitant to townread their partners and to scumread townies, and that even if it's not optimal or strategic to do so, or it risks a member of the scumteam dying, usually you will see at least one mafia defend a townie under pressure. That's why I'm kind of baffled by the viewpoint you gave. Like, planting yourself on opposite sides of arguments is -exactly- the kind of thing I'm talking about; I think the assumption that the people defending you are very probably town is ??? in that context. Even though it -could- lead to a member of a scumteam dying, I don't understand the viewpoint that mafia wouldn't defend a town in that way.

[Roden]

Why are you so desperate to discredit someone you think will flip scum and has no sway or power in the game?

Like you just get town spewed if I flip red, right?

Though you could do a readslist or something
If you're scum, remember to go into anti-spew and post the opposite of the actual alignments.
Also remember to troll your browser on the regular so it trolls you back. It's really conscious already.

I gave a final reads list.

[Vivax]

Why are you so desperate to discredit someone you think will flip scum and has no sway or power in the game?

Like you just get town spewed if I flip red, right?

Though you could do a readslist or something
If you're scum, remember to go into anti-spew and post the opposite of the actual alignments.
Also remember to troll your browser on the regular so it trolls you back. It's really conscious already.

I gave a final reads list.

Mb, missed it for the lack of formatting on a first scan
If you do end up flipping scum, your tone has improved a lot
Meanwhile tho

UNVOTE:

[Ausuka]

Given the context of his earlier posts, in what world does scum!Roden think that this answer is going to do anything but hurt him? Like this is an actively self sabotaging answer when scum can give any answer they want

Wifom. Fake posts are posted.

Given the context of his earlier posts, in what world does scum!Roden think that this answer is going to do anything but hurt him? Like this is an actively self sabotaging answer when scum can give any answer they want

Wifom. Fake posts are posted.

Just shouting wifom is a cop out. Scum can do literally anything, the point is which is more likely.

I just don't think it is very likely at all, that given the situation that he was in, he would take that avenue as scum. And therefore, it being the truth is the more likely reality we live in.

You don't think it's likely at all, because that fits your worldview.

Scum players and scum teams can and do have widely varying reactions. Maybe it's dead in water, maybe it's as little info as possible, maybe the amount wouldn't make sense, maybe the whole role is a fiction, maybe he's scum truth telling

Maybe Roden is town lying
Maybe he's telling the truth and is town

Whatever he said serves his purposes. As far as I know, there's no mech for any of it.

Arguing why that claim in particular supposes things that can't be known (if town).

I feel like this is a pretty scummy series of post on its own btw.

It take no stances, and makes no arguments. She just popped in to stir paranoia on any presented reason to town read Roden, without actually engaging with the reasons or talking about the reasons she believes him to be scum.

Like, it is just "oooohhhhh wifom scary" and "all things are unknowable"

She is not talking about Roden, she is talking in generalities, with the final conclusion being: so you can't make town reads.

fwiw I agree with this

[Titus]

Fwiw, intellectual honesty entered the chat.

If you got a question, straight up ask. Don't dance.

[Ausuka]

It's not a dance and it doesn't need to be a question

[Ausuka]

Uncrowned what do you think of the idea scum might be bussing Roden

not impossible but unlikely, i would say

Yeah idk, I asked you specifically because like, I felt a bit put off by the way you separated your suspects into 'if roden is town' and 'if roden is scum' - I feel that associatives can be foggy and unclear (though by no means useless) so the fact that you seemed to have such -clarity- that if Roden is scum you should look offwagon and if Roden is town you should look at early wagon entrants, felt a bit off to me. Unless I missed it I'd like you to explain that a bit more.

I think you are correct in your arguments against Roden but am not convinced he is scum instead of wrong?

In general I am a sucker for ate but idk I don't currently get the vibes Roden is about to flip red, shrug

Titus wagon feels better to me