Datisi's Café [game over!]

[mastina]

I'll figure it out then ideally when cross-referenced with fireisredsir.)

Here's where I almost gave it away.

How was I going to cross-reference with fireisredsir?

Why, by copping him, of course!

^Proof I'm not lying about my claim btw.

[Ydrasse]

maybe wolf team balanced by like inverse of town

maybe they have to be more productive to actually use roles during night

[Ydrasse]

so pick between using pr or getting extra kill

[jjh927]

If you're so sure you didn't get roleblocked then why didn't fire just claim the ascetic or whatever you think it is that caused the no result

If it's a role that passively causes no results in that way then fire would have had no reason to fear a guilty because it would have been impossible

[mastina]

Fire, did you expect town-mastina to take an action N1 and/or N2? Also, did you soft your N1 result anywhere?

This is why fire is scum with that claim.

If fire thought I was scum, then the lack of N1 acting on my part would mean fire had reason to not track me again N2;
If fire thought I was town, then seeing me not act N1 and seeing me claim I would reveal on D4 means that fire had no reason to believe I would act N2.

The claim is explicitly one that doesn't fit from a fire-town viewpoint but fits from a scum viewpoint that

knows

I am claiming an action which they would know was impossible.

[Something_Smart]

Plus, her read on me feels like TMI, since she clearly thinks she knows something about my role and I don't see how she can be that confident about it (even if she is right).

For the exact same reason I know jjh is town and knew Ircher was scum and know Roden is scum.

So, yes, it is a form of TMI, but in this case originating from town. The town who have paid attention that are in the know, are in the know and basically are a gigantic masonry as far as I'm concerned. {Vivax, jjh, Something_Smart, PenguinPower} is a pool which never contains scum if I'm right, here.

jjh probably knows what I know. He may or may not agree, mind you, but he probably sees what I am seeing at least.

You and PenguinPower, if I am right, might be able to figure it out, too. But obviously, the less said, the better, because I don't want to give anything away which would let scum infiltrate the holy masonry.

mastina can you explain this yet? especially since you were wrong about Roden

[mastina]

i suspected that most likely based on your claim, if it was true and you were town, you wouldn't act n1, and would act either n2 or n3, or both. so i checked n1 -- because if you had acted n1, and then later claimed that you hadn't, that means you're scum who actually had a different role, or you were carrying out the kill

so the n1 result checked out, but i still didn't really trust you on play, and so i decided it was worth checking again n2 due to the possibility that you would reveal d3

Again, this is not a town mindset to have.

It's literally fire revealing he's scum.

[Lukewarm]

Vivax
furtiveglance
Dannflor

fireisredsir
Ausuka
Roden
Andresvmb

Ydrasse

---

Uncrowned
jjh927
PenguinPower
Malakittens
Klick
Something_Smart

---

mastina

Titus

Strongest thoughts of the day:

Ydra and mastina up in my reads for the way their claims played out.

Mala also up (is based on the preflip of Titus)

Not a fan of Klick and Fire's reaction to Mastina's full claim, and both fell down. Klick probably more so then fire. lean scum klick, fire down to null feels about right. (I buy Titus's sudden scum read on Klick as her attempt to distance before she goes down, although her comments on klick have little to do with my shift there)


I feel like a reread of today will be needed for the middle crowd, was moving fast and was on my phone until just now. The middle crowd is largely people I ahve had no real thoughts on their alignment, and I feel like there are things to give me thoughts today from some of them.

[mastina]

And scum aren't going to have an ungated roleblocker.

Hey mastina, if you want us to adjust our takes based on this claim, I think its time for you to explain the claim.

Basic setup design.

The game's scumsided as mountainous; the town needs PRs to make the game be balanced.

But the game mechanics in this game punish the town for using their power roles via the extra kills. This means that the scum are given an advantage for the town PRs.

On top of the town PRs being punished by extra scum kills for using their PRs, the town PRs are all gated in ways that weaken them further. I'm not an ungated cop gated only by percentage; I'm a ONE SHOT COP that the SOONEST I could fire was N2. In terms of a Normal, do you think "Novice 1-shot Cop" is worth a scumteam being given an ungated roleblocker?

Fuck no, that doesn't track.

Ergo, the scum's roles MUST by necessity not be strongly and directly hindering to the town's roles, which are all gated, and all punished via extra scum kills. Because if the scum had strong role answers to the town's roles that are already punished by the extra kills for using their role and gated heavily, the game would be unacceptably scumsided because it'd be worse than mountainous (itself scumsided) for the town.

[Ydrasse]

if titus wolf (yes) and there is wolf in fire/mastina it always just mastina i think based on how hard mastina defend titus after having her as a softish null for most of game

[mastina]

also i guess i should say that i don't really trust mastina at all, not super interested in sheeping reads there

ig the main reason i don't want to vote there is bc of mastina, but maybe that's dumb, idk

is this really a post made by someone who just got a result indicating mastina is more likely to be telling the truth?

Nope!

Fire is lying his ass off.

[Dannflor]

maybe wolf team balanced by like inverse of town

maybe they have to be more productive to actually use roles during night

so pick between using pr or getting extra kill

is there any reason this wouldn't make sense mastina?

[Ydrasse]

side note i was sitting at desk twenty minutes ago and think i literally astrally
projected into a mafia pt that was s_s/titus/mastina

[Dannflor]

damn that's a strong role you have ydrasse

[Something_Smart]

oh man do you know how mad I would be

[mastina]

I made it clear I wasn't acting until N3-at-earliest, and the proof that I wasn't acting would be found in a genuine N1 result on me.

and i wanted to see if that was the case or not? who else do you think i should have checked?

A tracker can catch scum killing this game.

BIG time--scum can potentially be killing, what, 4 players per night?

Why would a town tracker be interested in checking for PRs, rather than trying to catch the scum kill when the scum have multikills???

[Ydrasse]

It cost me everything now i am so tired

[Something_Smart]

fire didn't claim tracker though...?

[Dannflor]

well for one thing fire didn't claim tracker

[jjh927]

maybe wolf team balanced by like inverse of town

maybe they have to be more productive to actually use roles during night

so pick between using pr or getting extra kill

is there any reason this wouldn't make sense mastina?

There are many reasons this wouldn't make sense.

Primarily this one that I didn't immediately notice

~ non-town power roles function as normal.

but I could go into detail on why it would be an awful setup decision that would never be made as well

[Dannflor]

ah cool ok

[Lukewarm]

mastina is the one who altered her claim after hearing my results

I made no alterations.

You did alter your claim today.

PARTIAL CLAIM: I am an investigative role and I have a result indicating fireisredsir is scum.

Last night, I targeted fireisredsir, but my N2 Cop Result was My Action Failed; I got not result.

I know you are already firing up your keyboard to say "BUT TECHNICALLY those are the same, because in the second one I said my RESULT was that my action failed"

But I really don't care about that technicality, because the information that you presented to the thread altered. From "I have a result implicating fire" to "my action failed, which I believe implicates fire"

So, in your head feel free to believe it did not alter. But from anyone elses pov it did.

[mastina]

Mastina, why have you not reached the conclusion that Fire could just be a roleblocker yet

I mean possible but unlikely; scum would have reason to believe they'd be wasting their roleblock on me.

[jjh927]

Mastina, Fire only claimed to be able to determine if someone acted or not. It's weaker than a tracker.

[Something_Smart]

Primarily this one that I didn't immediately notice

oh apparently I was the only one who saw that immediately and kept quiet to see if there would be any interesting reactions.

Do you think it's within Ydrasse's scum range to fake that slip?