Datisi's Café [game over!]

[Andresvmb]

I was wrong about Titus. That should square it. Like I didn’t expect Scum to push Ircher after their slip so consistently. They did. Which is why my perspective on the point has changed. I felt Scum wouldn’t have bailed so early. It seemed harsh on a Partner. But I think I was wrong to think that. And it seems the Scum, at least at first, didn’t want to be found not pushing Ircher after their immediate slip. And hey look I respect the skepticism about Uncrowned. Because Uncrowned ended up moving away. It’s just that I don’t think every Scum all the time has the nerve to sink their Partner all through to the end.

And hey, the execution should have given Town more incentive to keep pushing since we had gotten Scum and were off to a promising start. And Uncrowned has shrunk as the time has kept going. Not the other way around.

[Andresvmb]

But honestly I don’t care you don’t think my reaction isn’t “genuine Town”. You’re still wrong. When I have a strong feeling a player is Scum, I don’t give it up easy. I’m stubborn. Hence, my reaction. I don’t even know what having a natural progression means. I was pushing someone as a hard SR, and fighting them on their views. Which btw, I was right to question. Lukewarm was Town. I didn’t waver from that and I felt Luke was full of shit because of that.

[furtiveglance]

So me, PP and Uncrowned would vote Mala.....anyone else, show of hands?

[Andresvmb]

^Vivax was full of shit*

[Andresvmb]

And sure you may expect my reactions to Titus being “Scum who knows their Partner is going down”. You know what they actually are though? Town who finally sees bullshit and isn’t letting them get away with it. But you seem to be interpreting everything I do in the worst possible way so you do you. You’re wrong and the game will prove itself out but I don’t think I need to spend a tremendous amount of time proving that yet.

and again i just don't really think this is how town responded? like you stick out pretty strongly reading back as someone who really wanted to make sure everyone was aware of how much we needed to eliminate titus, i don't think anyone was performative to that same extent. so saying "well of course town would have this reaction" just doesn't really do much for me bc most of town didn't

like at the time you said that obviously we were eliminating titus. the "im not letting you get away with this!!" just screams performance to me

Okay great. It screams performance to you. It wasn’t. You can be Pune what you want like if you’re going to keep pushing me with analysis that’s all how you “feel” and how you think Town should have played that then sure, what do you want me to do? I reacted like I would as Town. That’s how I play. I have seen obvious Scum in this forum get away with murder with a complicated claim because Town screwed it up. I wanted to ensure that didn’t happen. I’m sorry you think it was too over the top.

[Andresvmb]

^I don’t even know why Pune came as autocorrect. I think I was trying to say that you can “believe what you want”.

[Andresvmb]

I went back and I read most of Titus’ ISO - can someone explain why 3008 is a remotely acceptable vote? Isn’t S_S townspewed here from Titus’ constant push there?

[Andresvmb]

@Klick can you give me a summary of your reads at the moment? I read through your ISO and what I noticed is that your reads are jumping quite a bit. Not in like a bad way or anything, I’m just not currently sure what you’re seeing. Because obviously you are fluctuating wildly on fire and RCE/Dannflor, and I want to get a better feel for those players.

[Andresvmb]

Can someone read Penguin’s ISO and tell me why I shouldn’t Scum Read the slot?

[Andresvmb]

Okay I need to stop adopting general rules about what the Scum did. It’s clearly not working.

I think Uncrowned’s vote for S_S is a joke. I can’t stand here and say S_S is never Scum I mean that would be absurd. But Titus pushed there consistently, and I would think this means S_S is more often than not a bad execution.

Also, I know Penguin is not here and that pushing a slot that’s VLA for a week (I mean, really?), is maybe not the best look. But I’m struggling with their ISO. There isn’t a whole lot of Town positive pushes or interactions there. And look maybe my first reaction about how I expected Scum to react to the slip isn’t entirely ridiculous. Yes, it didn’t apply to Titus and it failed me there big time. But Penguin does end up finding a way to land on Ircher late (and tell me that vote doesn’t look somewhat like a bus), while questioning the slip repeatedly towards the beginning.

Anyway, I don’t know what to do here. I don’t think fire is Scum despite them pushing me this much. I mean there’s enough conviction there I think they genuinely think this is my Scum game. I don’t think furtive is Scum either. But I’m not finding myself thinking that mastina is Scum for pushing furtive so loudly.

[Andresvmb]

@Klick, Something_Smart, can you both put a vote down or signal what it is you want to do? I think we need to start moving towards a consensus of sorts.

[Something_Smart]

Sorry, I'm just getting back from V/LA. I think I'm better off not trying to lead, since it'll take me some time to get back into the game after the downtime and my V/LA, and if I'm going to remain UTR it's best to be semi-unpredictable so scum don't know whether they should kill me. (Not that I'm really fooling anyone, I'm probably not going to be NK'd because I pretty much never am.)

[Andresvmb]

Okay that’s fine but you can still vote. It doesn’t need to be fully explained and I’m not asking you to lead. But based on what you have read, what do you want to do?

[Something_Smart]

At the moment I have no real preference and I have too much of a headache to look into it more. Sorry.

[Andresvmb]

I don't have a concrete reason for it in my head but Dannflor doesn't feel like scum to me.

I, however, DO have a concrete reason for Dannflor being town!
Of the living players, he was THE strongest pusher of both Titus being scum AND Roden being town. He didn't just say "Titus is scum, Roden is town" and then let Roden die; he actually HARD-PUSHED for trying to eliminate Titus on D2.

That makes him just as clear as Lukewarm.

Exactly jjh/S_S doesn't seem right, they're also two players that I don't think I'd get a solid townread on easily if they were town (I do think one scum there is probably a good shout though?).

Something_Smart is pretty much hard-spewed not scum from Titus/Ircher interactions.

That, aside from Something_Smart looking town by play.

So even if it were jjh (and I don't think it is), he'd need a scumbuddy.

I've given my reasons for thinking furtive + fire works as a scumteam.
What works as a jjh scumteam? Not much!

@mastina, since you believe this, what do you make of Uncrowned’s vote for S_S today?

[Andresvmb]

This is how I have the game right now btw:
Strong Lean Town
{Ydrasse}
Lean Town
{Malakittens, Something_Smart, Klick, fireisredsir}
Slight Lean Town
{furtiveglance, mastina}
Neutral
{Dannflor [RCEnigma]}
Slight Lean Scum
{PenguinPower}
Lean Scum
{Uncrowned}
Uncertain
{jjh927}

I need to ISO jjh but I haven’t found the time and I need to go put a piece of furniture together. So I won’t be back until tomorrow.

[Andresvmb]

I’m trying but I’m not sufficiently confident to scream for anyone’s head.

[fireisredsir]

@Klick can you give me a summary of your reads at the moment? I read through your ISO and what I noticed is that your reads are jumping quite a bit. Not in like a bad way or anything, I’m just not currently sure what you’re seeing. Because obviously you are fluctuating wildly on fire and RCE/Dannflor, and I want to get a better feel for those players.

where do you see their reads jumping around? i kinda thought the opposite, it felt weird how static their reads were given the flips

doesn't really feel like they've been fluctuating wildly on me or dann, just that they started to be less sure on both of the reads

[Dannflor]

I’d probably vote Mala

[fireisredsir]

sure ok

VOTE: mala

i kinda liked andres on this page a little better

[jjh927]

I wasn't getting great vibes from mala in general and I feel like the interactions with Titus actually look pretty damning now I know Titus was scum, but I'd like to think about it

UNVOTE: furtive

[Malakittens]

sure ok

VOTE: mala

i kinda liked andres on this page a little better

Flail harder bro

[fireisredsir]

sure ok

VOTE: mala

i kinda liked andres on this page a little better

Flail harder bro

do you actually think im scum

all you said when you voted me was "what are we doing? voting fire?"

that doesn't really make it sound like this is a real opinion you hold

[mastina]

(I'm not in a good mindstate tonight you don't want me playing because if I were it'd be heavily hostile and I don't want the vitriol I'm feeling right now to be in game, will post when not feeling this way.)

[furtiveglance]

sure ok

VOTE: mala

i kinda liked andres on this page a little better

Flail harder bro

sure ok

VOTE: mala

i kinda liked andres on this page a little better

Flail harder bro

do you actually think im scum

all you said when you voted me was "what are we doing? voting fire?"

that doesn't really make it sound like this is a real opinion you hold

Busy will be here.

Work am.

What are we doing? Voting fires?

VOTE: firez

Yeah I'm with Fire on this one. Let's see if Mala can get some votes

VOTE: Malakittens