Mini 2282 | Masqué | Postgame

[Datisi]

Teal has been replaced.

Please welcome the new Teal!

[Masquerader Teal]

Greetings! I’ll be able to catch up later today.

[Masquerader Teal]

If anyone's around and wants to talk, I'll be here. Right now I'm trying to catch up. I think that it'll be better for me to get into the game though if I can real time.

[Masquerader Red]

If anyone's around and wants to talk, I'll be here. Right now I'm trying to catch up. I think that it'll be better for me to get into the game though if I can real time.

Can you focus on Purple and Olive? I am struggling with their relationship.

[Masquerader Teal]

If anyone's around and wants to talk, I'll be here. Right now I'm trying to catch up. I think that it'll be better for me to get into the game though if I can real time.

Can you focus on Purple and Olive? I am struggling with their relationship.

Olive isn't mafia this game, I think. Their play is fairly obvious, and is a double-edged sword. They're good at being towny but they're awful at distinguishing the intentions of the people interacting with them and in games like these it bites them.

Purple was doing a PR walk for them at one point though, I'll go back and quote it in a bit, but it's weird because I felt like it was more beneficial for Purple to protect their pairing than it was to protect Olive, if that makes any sense? Like I felt like it was meant to sell everyone on how Olive is just misunderstood and Purple is the whisperer who just gets them, don't worry about them or their pair. Which is like. Worrisome in this type of game.

I haven't read the beginning of the game as closely as the latter half but I think that if Olive was active early on and Purple made an effort to try and pair with them, it could be +mafia if they know anything about Olive behind the mask and knew they could get Olive to really trust them, because Olive is the type of player who would almost always go to bat for a partner in these games.

[Masquerader Teal]

In relation to that, Blue's tilt is... mmm. I've seen it before from them as both alignments but I don't think in this situation Blue would have decided to tilt out at Olive as a wolf. It... wouldn't be worth it to them at all to engage there, to say the least. Also the fact that they're numbly saying "I'll send myself out" is like, a death sentence in of itself if you don't actually do it. You can hem and haw but it always looks bad when it isn't fulfilled.

[Masquerader Teal]

The fact that the two people I'm townreading and one I'm mafiareading are voting me is a Moment, lol. Jesus Christ.

[Masquerader Teal]

Spoiler: Purple on Olive until they paired

Hello Red and Magenta, I'm here as well. I'm about to fall asleep on the floor and have a dream (or nightmare.) It would be best if I can talk to you first, in case my dream is about this game.

It was a dream and not a nightmare, and in it I lead a successful push against an intruder. I have an archetypal memory of the intruder though I'm unclear on the application of this as there were only a few posts written at the time I fell asleep. I hope that I will have another dream (or nightmare..) focused on this game tonight. My interpretation of my dream is that I will become fixated on a player and lose the game unless I receive significant help from other players.

I have two surface-level reads: blue looks masqué; olive looks intruder. The rest of you feel unclear to me and need to post more about what you want. I feel an impulse to extend an invitation to pair with blue and I will refrain due to my interpretation of my dream. There's a good chance I will be back soon to post more about what I want.

Purple, what makes you read Olive as intruder when the one thing they've done is give a read you agree with?

That's not true; olive has done two things (you overlooked that they revealed to us they had trouble logging into their account) and both things were written with the intent to get others to like them rather than to uncover information about the identity of the intruders or to disclose meaningful information about themselves.

Are you still confused about why you should not trust olive, red?

I don't think expressing difficulty logging in is meaningful in the way you describe; it seems more personality-driven than alignment-driven. I find it hard to believe that there are many people who, after having difficulty logging in, would specifically make a post complaining about that as scum but not as town. Unless your opinion is more tone-driven, in which case, well, shrug.

That's an excellent observation about my opinion being tone-driven which I did not consider. I believe that there is an earnest tone to their writing and I interpret it to be indicative of an intruder when saying writing something which seems very obvious that others will not object to. However, I do not interpret earnestness to be indicative of an intruder in and of itself. For example, I read earnestness or at least enthusiasm in your opening posts and did not consider it to be indicative of your alignment in either way.

That being said, while I believe you may be a skilled writer and sincere in your attempts to discover the intruders, I do not like your argument in the quote above. It reads to me like a version of refuge in audacity (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... n_Audacity) which is a mistake to adopt by principle; and I disagree that it's even relevant to olive. I consider olive's comment about logging in to play the game to be mundane, and perhaps leading to a separate rationale for suspecting them which you may prefer: they are so uninterested in playing the game due to immediately perceiving us all as bumbling masqués that the most stimulating experience for them thus far (after meeting their intruder companion, which they will be careful to not imply) was logging into their account.

If you are passionate about arguing in favor of refuge in audacity then I want to continue discussing it, as I am passionate about arguing against it and would love to be proven wrong. While I do not believe olive expressing difficulty logging into their account is either bold or audacious or something especially unlikely an intruder would think of doing, I find teal's formal request to be paired with a moderator to be quite audacious, and is something I would be too timid to even think of doing myself regardless of alignment! Do you believe that teal is more likely to be sincere due to an intruder being unlikely to request pairing with a moderator?

I like your second argument in favor of olive much better, but I'm having difficulty organizing your two arguments separately as quotes into my reply and I feel I've already offered you more than enough information for you to write something insightful of your own, so I will address your second argument in favor of olive later tonight.

• (If you noticed what I did there, yes it was intentional: do you think an intruder is especially unlikely to express difficulty understanding how to divide your post into separate quotes and respond to all of them within the same reply? Do you believe that is a good reason for you to trust me? I encourage you to distrust both olive and myself for implying you should think so.)

Are you still confused about why you should not trust olive, red?

Yeah this line looks agenda driven.

I find your implication here ugly on both an aesthetic and a practical level, yellow, and especially unlikely to progress toward winning the game. I believe categorizing lines as those that are agenda driven and those that are not to be an unhelpful way to view the game, as most of the content written in this game will have some agenda behind it in some way shape or form, even if it's purely for self-amusement. Your statement is also an oxymoron in that I asked a question: it's assumed I have an agenda of inducing red to reveal information about himself. (is this pronoun acceptable to you, red, or do you prefer they or she or something else?)

1) Do you know what I mean when I say your statement is an oxymoron, yellow?

The most critical issue I have with yellow's post isn't that it's aesthetically myopic and impractical on a number of levels, it's that it directly interferes with masqué's ability to win the game. Discrediting players who are obvious majority is an accepted tell in any developed social deduction game as it's necessary for the minority to do this in order to win the game (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... 8.2B1.0.29).

The fact that yellow is disregarding everything I've written to focus on the syntax of a single line and claim that it makes me less credible indicates a lack of strategic and social awareness about the game we are playing. Regardless of yellow's alignment it goes against their own win condition by damaging their credibility. They are furthering the agenda of the minority for superficial reasons in plain sight for all to see: why would we take yellow seriously, and what does yellow have to gain from doing that? The answer is that yellow does not know what they are doing (unless they are playing dumb, which is always a possibility) and unless they can demonstrate more strategic and social awareness they are a liability if they are a masqué.

The usual phrasing would be "Äre you still confused

about why I do not trust olive, red?"

Not why red should not trust them.

I believe this information is valuable purely because it comes from you.

Well, I'm certainly less confused as to why you don't trust them.

This is the proper response.

Yes it was a proper and witty response. Fortunately, the rest of red's reply suggested they are thinking about the game and able to communicate their ideas effectively, something which you have not displayed thus far, yellow. You would have given yourself a chance to appreciate that if you were not skim reading our posts, yellow.

The usual phrasing would be "Äre you still confused

about why I do not trust olive, red?"

Not why red should not trust them.

Yeah, good point. I could see that as a possible perspective slip.

I do not believe that olive actually thinks yellow made a good point or that the way I worded my question actually appears to them as a perspective slip. You're in luck yellow: olive appears to be a wealth of information about the identity of the intruders. I believe that olive's reply indicates they know yellow is a masqué and would prefer to see us fight each other.

If you don't believe me, watch for olive's response (I know you posted "lolwut" a few minutes ago, olive, and are likely reading this soon after it's posted:)

Olive, why did you think yellow made a good point, and how is the way I worded my question a perspective slip?

It's early but I like blue red and olive

and dislike purple and green so far.

I don't know if these are reads or if you're just stating your opinion in stream-of-consciousness. Do you believe players who you like are more common to be intruders or less likely? I'm not sure if there is any meaningful correlation as the intruders are often focused only on getting you to like them and can refrain from telling you when they dislike something you write.

If these are reads, I do agree with the majority of your reads except I don't believe you have any meaningful reason to trust olive (telling you what you want to hear isn't a meaningful reason to trust someone, yellow, it means they might be an intruder and you should be reading them with more scrutiny, not less) and obviously I believe the idea that you would distrust me based on my play so far to be comedic. I believe this list indicates yellow to be a strong contender to be eliminated first in order to improve masqués chances of winning the game.

2) Yellow, why did olive write that you made a good point and why do they believe my question to red indicates a perspective slip?

These pfps are jarring btw

Yellow, I believe that you are likely to be a masqué, however, I have a suspicion that you are not reading any posts which contain multiple lines of text with the necessary level of scrutiny, and you are motivated in part to "dislike" me because you can't be bothered to read my posts, and are therefore an ideal candidate to be eliminated first (rather than myself who is able to read and write competently enough to play this game.) If you would like to prove me wrong, then demonstrate you can read:

find the two bolded underlined questions I asked you and reply to them.

(If you noticed what I did there, yes it was intentional: do you think an intruder is especially unlikely to express difficulty understanding how to divide your post into separate quotes and respond to all of them within the same reply? Do you believe that is a good reason for you to trust me? I encourage you to distrust both olive and myself for implying you should think so.)

lolwut

I'm sorry that you had to be aligned as an intruder against me in one of your first social deduction games, olive. This is another tell indicating olive is an intruder which is accepted on principle in any developed social deduction game (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... 8.2B1.0.29). Players will usually only behave like olive when they are very inexperienced intruders.

If we were aligned together olive I would do my best to help you handle this situation. Unfortunately --or fortunately -- it goes against my win condition to not attempt to induce you into as many mistakes as possible.

At this point in time I am vehemently against olive or yellow pairing with any player except each other, and I'm especially against either of them pairing with either red or blue.

I had a very unpleasant nightmare after writing last night and I have now realized it indicated the identity of one of the intruders.

I feel there are significant odds that Purple and Olive are TvT.

Red, thank you for your detailed response, if I try my best to be open to the possibility I misread olive, will you extend the same grace toward teal?

VOTE: Masquerader Yellow

This is where my suspicions point me currently. I do not trust the way they took Purple's post out of context.

oh I thought this was just gonna be a regular game, huh

UNVOTE: Masquerader Yellow

Green doesn't want to appear aligned with yellow

, and yellow is an intruder; therefore I am deducing that the intruders are green and yellow. Olive was my red herring and teal was red's red herring.

Offer hand: Red

Offer hand: Olive

Offer hand: Blue

Offer hand: Teal

Offer hand: Magenta

I have added the Sample Intruder PM to the setup post.

Nevermind. Please ignore my previous inquiry.

It appears best to arrange pairs by matching their chances of being invitee (which I previously called masqué, by mistake) and mismatching pairs based on the length they have gone to conceal their identity. I am used to constructing characters that match the account I am writing in (in fact I have experience and training for doing this) so I will be best paired with a masqué who is of higher-than-average chance to be an invitee and did not heed this warning:

Known only to their possessors!
Alas, those Intruders, they'll be the guessers!
How they wish to unmask you all!
How they want to use them to cause your downfall!
Beware, friends, and confide to none!
Heed this advice or you're done!

I have done "obfuscating"

I've only skimmed but I "like" magenta's and teal's posting. I will have to think about what this means with regards to their alignment.

FYI Magenta, I'm playing a character based on the idea of purple prose and the color purple being associated with moodiness and royalty, if that helps you parse my posts at all.

Hello green, why do you find teal suspect?

I'm not explicitly trying to connect a face to a name but they seem to be imitating two people at once almost and that bothers me, as the first word I would describe it as would be "obfuscating".

and I suggest olive accept my invitation.

You want to intimidate and insult. Does that work for you?

This is an acceptable description though I intend to insult the play rather than the player. However, you missed that I also want to dream, and I assure you I am less narcissistic in real life than I appear to be in-game.

@olive, what's FPS posting?

fancy playstyle but I see they’ve now abandoned it, thank God.

This game is won on the first elimination if we force yellow and green to pair with each other.

Can you give me your case for both of them? And thank you for making your posts actually readable.

It's easy for me to adapt though it's a double edged sword as I can never stay exactly the same for too long. I am phantasmagorical, and I will write my cases for you soon.

Purple, why are you so eager to pair with me? Why do you think I specifically should accept your invitation? I don’t get it. You’ve gone from having me as your top intruder pick to to having me as your preferred partner? Why exactly?

The automaton mechanic indicates that the intruders must guess the identity of both players simultaneously in order to kill them. This implies it's helpful to pair invitees so that at least one player is difficult to guess. I believe your dislike of fps play has caused you to take less precautions in protecting your identity than I have, so we will be safe in that regard, and I am eager because I believe that I extended an invitation to at least one intruder if not two. In other words, I'm hoping that you will protect me by not giving time for an intruder to pair with me, so I can protect you by making my identity difficult to spot, so we will not die if an automaton is used upon us.

As for the changing read, I misjudged you initially, and now I think I understand you better and I believe you are unlikely to be an intruder.

Thank you, you were right, I am an invitee.

[Masquerader Teal]

skimmed through the rest I think I like everyone except yellow - olive - cyan

Currently liking green and cyan, very much dislike magenta. So that means, I still feel good about Red as well. Blue hasn’t done anything to concern me yet.

what do you like about Cyan?

Your iso feels like buddying people and is devoid of any scum-reads/scum-hunting.

the long post on mech feels trivial to say and the feeling I get from you is that you don't really want to make any waves.

My apologies if you feel that my politeness has some underlying ulterior motive. I can assure you that is not the case. While I understand you think I am not “scum hunting,” I would have to disagree as trying to find town allows you to narrow down “scum” via the process of elimination. I was quite clear that I disagreed with Red on their town read of you, and it should be easy to infer from my questioning of Green‘s stated stance on Yellow that I did not town read them. I believe that should answer your follow up question to me as well since, as you are unfortunately paired, it would mean I would prefer for Green to remain unpaired.

If you would not mind, could you answer my question to you in full?

you ask a lot of questions but I don't ever see follow up or laying out of actual thought process

most of your posting so far is either one liner questions that don't really lead anywhere or fluff that is not related to the game.

You disagree with reads but you don't lay out your reasoning for your own reads.

the longest post you make is a long post about mech which is trivial.

the overall vibe I get is that you are not comfortable playing scum and your solving process is non existent.

I appreciate your stance, though I disagree its foundation is accurate, and you have made it clear. Would you now mind answering my question in full?

like sure you disagree

I don't think anyone would just agree "yes I'm mafia"

but are you actually going to explain your reads that you have?

like you ask people to explain their reads and their process and claim you are solving via POE but you've not laid out any reasoning for your own reads as far as I can see.

Mmm.

[Masquerader Teal]

In hindsight this was a bad pairing - I liked the idea of pairing with teal because I too felt overwhelmed at the start of the game, found it hard to tell you apart, liked his Sus on purple, but it's actually awful because since then I've got some reads, etc, (I'm still lost on the Id side of the game, I'm so glad in not intruder, my partner would be so mad), and the content from them is still very much 'i'm lost'. I don't know if it's a) true b) a lie and I'm really suspectiblw to it.

My question to the wider group is: would teal continue being like this in the PT if they wwre scum? They aren't working to convince me of anything. Is the gamw going well enough for the intruders that they can be complacent??

Our PT has ten posts in.

(I place the red flag in front of this post so everyone can grab at it.) I don't know if Magenta is mafia. They seem very... apologetic towards me in the PT, like, "sorry I don't know what else I can even do right now but suspect you" feeling. But then it's like here Magenta's asking for approval from everyone about their read on me which comes across as insecure but like. Why even bother if you're a wolf and you know the answer you're probably going to get. It's not a defense of my slot. It's just inviting opinion for... the sake of it, hoping someone finally bites on town!Teal and they can say phew?

Meh. I don't feel it.

[Masquerader Teal]

I also don't get the hyper defense of Olive given their attempt on a gotcha on Teal. Regardless of Teal's alignment, that looks pretty fake.

I understand what you're saying and I believe it's logical for you to assume that, though it is incorrect and will explain why.

Olive is frustrated because the teal slot has been viewed as an intruder for most of the game and it has become increasingly obvious to them over time which alignment the slot is playing as. Also, the blue slot wasn't playing for most of the pairing phase and was incorrectly assessed by old red and I (not olive) to be invitee based on the content of the first and only post by the original blue player. New cyan was the first player other than olive to seriously consider that blue might be an intruder. Once I interacted with new cyan and considered what they had to say, olive and I saw eye to eye we became excited because we realized we had solved the game. Now, olive is frustrated because they feel like you have been pocketed by the blue player and we will lose because you will not listen to what we have to say. That is the reason for olive's ate and emotional outburst.

This is the post that made me see Purple as the Olive Whisperer.

[Masquerader Teal]

If anyone's around and wants to talk, I'll be here. Right now I'm trying to catch up. I think that it'll be better for me to get into the game though if I can real time.

Can you focus on Purple and Olive? I am struggling with their relationship.

Where did you Go.

[Masquerader Teal]

>->

[Masquerader Teal]

<-< >-> I hate repping into games.

[Masquerader Teal]

Purple reading Cyan and Yellow correctly is well. Something.

[Masquerader Teal]

I don't know what it meaaaans. Someone show UP.

[Masquerader Teal]

Stop letting me broil in my paranoia soup.

[Masquerader Teal]

Like I truly do not know why Blue would bother tilting out specifically at Olive and put themself through that if they're mafia. Like they know it's not going to get anywhere making them feel bad, Olive is stubborn and digs their feet in most of the time. It seems so dumb to waste energy on and incurs wrath and a headache to deal with after.

Red/Magenta ????

[Masquerader Teal]

Sorry if I don't seem like I Seriously Care about this game btw but like I showed up to the party knowing what place Teal was in lol.

[Masquerader Teal]

Where are the PARTY PEOPLE.

[Masquerader Blue]

I'm not tilted

I am perfectly rational

[Masquerader Teal]

I'm not tilted

I am perfectly rational

I mean I get it but you know what you did. >->

[Masquerader Teal]

VOTE: Purple

Shrug!

[Masquerader Blue]

is there a point to this conversation

[Masquerader Teal]

Not really no.