Warrior Cats Mafia [Day Three]

[NorwegianboyEE]

I’ve even got some very specific secret tells i’m using on Mastina, unfortunately they’ve been inactive so i don’t have enough data to say anything for sure. So i don’t see how you could reach the conclusion that they are town based on just what they’ve posted so far.

[Charloux]

KittyTacky's response to pressure is a lot different from what I remember of scum!KittyTacky in turing test

here there's a lot more indignation "This is my town game!!~" sorta stuff

there it was "sorry, I'm playing so poorly"

Then vote Marashu and not me. I'm town.

I don't know what to make of this. Rather than town/scum this feels more like jester play at this point.

[Datisi]

norwee, do you still think marashu is scum

what do you think of kitty

[Marashu]

marashu like. i'm sheeping catboi here, sue me, but i vibe with the idea that the fixation on me/bell is fake. i'm fine... leaving this for now and seeing what he does today and how he answers suspicion, but yeah uh not a fan

mastina's case on Alisae/Norwee is very compelling. I feel like her arguments on Alisae are stronger so it's interesting that she's more sure on Norwee. VOTE: Norwee

so given this, why are you voting norwee and not alisae, if you think the case on ali is stronger?

Because that's where the pressure is currently, and if they're both scum then does the order matter?

MARASHU, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT DATISI'S READ ON YOU AS A DARK ONE?

It's day 1 so I'm expecting people to be wrong. If you're asking about what I think about his reasoning, it's to his benefit to say that my reaction is fake, but that also implies that he does not see any fakeness with his interactions with Bell. Beyond that, it was an early read on my part and not one I have a lot of conviction in.

VOTE: Alisae

[Marashu]

Sorry for vanishing. I learned i passed my entrance exams for drama School and I didnt have time.

Congrats!

[catboi]

KittyTacky's response to pressure is a lot different from what I remember of scum!KittyTacky in turing test

here there's a lot more indignation "This is my town game!!~" sorta stuff

there it was "sorry, I'm playing so poorly"

I went and took a look and I don't really see the difference you're talking about? Here's a few select posts from turing test:

Spoiler:

Dear God, this whole "I don't get scumread" thing is insufferable.
I don't think it's necessarily scummy, because the same thing happened somewhat in Terminator, but it IS obnoxious and makes the game way harder to follow for anyone else.


Anyway,
VOTE: Greeting
Ignoring the actual substance of posts in favor of superficial "tells" is probably as scummy as it's gonna get D1.

Did a reread of the whole game so far, yeah I can sheep this.
VOTE: Greeting

I think KittyTacky is a better vote tbh Bell

VOTE: Kitty

Why do you think he's scum?

He is shading without specificity - which tends to be scum going through the motions rather than actually thinking about who is mafia

I do this as town tho.

Don't like Dannflor, mostly.

I have trouble believing you actually scumread Dannflor because you have done literally nothing to push or sort him.

I was busy IRL and feeling out of this game, and I think Greeting is scummier at this point anyways.

@Kitty, I would really like your read on Vivax. Can we not run him up before this gets answered please?

Rather scummy.

I just... do poorly in mountainous games as I found out. It's slightly demoralizing having no play around PRs to find scum/town with.

Here's some posts from this game:

Spoiler:

Re: The whole Norwee case
You know, I'm convinced, VOTE: Norwee.

VOTE: kittytacky

I've had a long day at work and haven't had time to read the whole thread properly but that kittytacky post is the worst I've seen in this game by quite a bit.

I've had a long day at work and haven't had time to read the whole thread properly but that kittytacky post is the worst I've seen in this game by quite a bit.

the worst? how so?

its a bunch of quote stripes followed by one-liners with no thought put into them, half of them don't even say anything important, and he ends it with a really obviously opportunistic vote on half baked reasoning - just "I'm convinced" and absolutely nothing more which doesn't feel like he had real thoughts about norwee's alignment at all

It's about the most classically newbscum post you'll ever see

If you ever played with me, that's how I play as town lol. Lots of one-liners. I'm struggling to adapt to this post restriction. And if I legit had nothing to add to a case I agreed with, what would I say besides "I agree"? Sheeping is not scummy.

i like catboi's posting on this page quite a bit more than previous stuff which is a nice surprise. not enough to lean town yet but im less worried there i think

kitty doesn't feel scummy in quite the same way that he felt scummy when i played with him when he was scum but he still feels kinda scummy so sure

VOTE: kittytacky

Yes because this is my fucking town playstyle and now I'm being wagoned by someone who never played with me. I legit had nothing to add to the case, why on Earth would I say something else?

I'm legit trying but it's hard. I also never played a large theme before.

I'm town, I play weird but I'm town. Nothing else to say, if anyone has any questions you can ask.

I guess you could squint and say there's a bit of a tonal difference where in the other game he was more defeatist but the thing that's standing out to me is the over-reliance on excuses for lack of content - in the other game it was being busy and the setup being mountainous, here it's the game being a large theme and the post restriction (which makes no sense given him barely having any posts to begin with). Like, are these really all that different?

[Bell]

No matter how much we argued it seemed like the only options they would accept was to either eliminate Cephrir or do a no elimination. They were *that* confident that Taly was town.
Taly wasn't town. You had to be there. Anyway it kind of turned me off to Alisae's approach here and I've never responded well to a player's AtE(Norwe). So that's it in a nut shell.

actually i still don't really get this bc looking at the timeline of things, you voted norwee based off mastina's confidence there and that was well before alisae started saying that they 100% tr norwee. they call norwee towny in 279, but say they're still sorting him, and their first like really confident statement of norwee town is 602. but you voted norwee before that, in 583

so it wasn't about you being turned off by alisae's approach, it was about mastina

so why would this context make you MORE inclined to encourage the approach that you found frustrating in the previous game by following someone expressing a 97.5% confidence read?

the way you explain it here it sounds like you're saying you don't want to give alisae's read the requested weight but like mastina is doing exactly the same thing from the other direction

Is it really that hard to understand that I voted Norwe first because it’s RVS and I’m happy to explore where a wagon might lead on a small TR on slot that hadn’t done much and stayed there because the best defense I’ve seen is “trust me you guys, they’re super town in the neighborhood?”
You keep saying you think you get it but then you loop back right into not knowing. Ask some clarification questions instead of looping. Into a deeper and deeper series of doubt that themselves don’t make sense because it almost seems like you can’t understand how time works. \: or something?

Mmmm at Dannflor.
@Shiro grats.

[Bell]

Not really seeing what Dan is saying.
Didn’t datisi get accused by multiple players of being on defensive and not digging back
And he just outsourced any reads on me to others and just said he didn’t like my recent posts. Which makes sense since I said he was already dead to me.

[PenguinPower]

VOTE: marashu

[Datisi]

i didn't understand then what me already being dead to you meant and i don't understand it now either

it's just about your treatment of mastina and norwee mostly (and the fact you don't seem that interested in doing anything but anyway)

[Bell]

I’m cognizant that Norwe has done stuff since then, but I’m not sure that “won’t accept player’s reason for voting them because they have zero reason to do so as either alignment” is particularly AI.

[Bell]

i didn't understand then what me already being dead to you meant and i don't understand it now either

it's just about your treatment of mastina and norwee mostly (and the fact you don't seem that interested in doing anything but anyway)

If people keep bothering me and asking me questions about it what exactly do you expect me to do?
I’m also side remarking and clearly paying attention to other people’s arguments.

It just means I’ve already made up my mind based on what I’ve seen from you and think you belong in the null-scum pile and will probably get voted out or shot in the next few game days if there’s a vig.
Naturally I haven’t actually made up my mind, there’s plenty of ways I could be misreading you. But overall. Yeah. Scum lean. But I’m happy to let you live for a day or two while I explore other folk. There’s no rush.

[Datisi]

people asking you questions about it doesn't stop you from doing other things, but y'know

i think you'll be dying before me this game, unless scum decides to get rid of me early

[Bell]

people asking you questions about it doesn't stop you from doing other things, but y'know

i think you'll be dying before me this game, unless scum decides to get rid of me early

I am doing other things. See, my response to dann, my question to angel, the people I’d like to see more from aside to fire, my engagement with you just now etcetc. Just cause you say something doesn’t make it real. You did say ironically you’d outsource your read of me to others so it makes sense you wouldn’t read my posts and then accuse me of not posting anything outside of talking to norwe.

As for dying first. Eh. Maybe. I rarely get miseliminated as town.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I’m cognizant that Norwe has done stuff since then, but I’m not sure that “won’t accept player’s reason for voting them because they have zero reason to do so as either alignment” is particularly AI.

My problem with you is that you could say this to literally anything and it would allow you to not actually explain why you vote the way you do. Like you could have voted Datisi and said "they not accepting my argument is NAI", "Mastina not accepting my argument is NAI" BLah blah blah not accepting my argument is NAI.
What does this actually say about you? It seems to me that you are just manufacturing reads and then justifying it with some logic that can be used for anything because it pretty much says nothing.

[NorwegianboyEE]

norwee, do you still think marashu is scum

what do you think of kitty

I have a hard time finding trustworthy slots on my wagon at all.

[Mistyx]

@marashu @kitty what are your reads on each other and what do you think about the cases on each other?

[Dannflor]

KittyTacky's response to pressure is a lot different from what I remember of scum!KittyTacky in turing test

here there's a lot more indignation "This is my town game!!~" sorta stuff

there it was "sorry, I'm playing so poorly"

Then vote Marashu and not me. I'm town.

I don't know what to make of this. Rather than town/scum this feels more like jester play at this point.

yeah idk Kitty might just be scum

[Dannflor]

Not really seeing what Dan is saying.
Didn’t datisi get accused by multiple players of being on defensive and not digging back
And he just outsourced any reads on me to others and just said he didn’t like my recent posts. Which makes sense since I said he was already dead to me.

I think the way you are interacting with Datisi is really weird and you aren't really giving Datisi anything to interact with

given that Datisi is someone who forms reads on people by heavily relying on how they are reading him, I think it makes sense that he is outsourcing his read on you

[Dannflor]

catboi, do you have a solid read on fire?

could you answer this catboi?

[Dannflor]

I guess you could squint and say there's a bit of a tonal difference where in the other game he was more defeatist but the thing that's standing out to me is the over-reliance on excuses for lack of content - in the other game it was being busy and the setup being mountainous, here it's the game being a large theme and the post restriction (which makes no sense given him barely having any posts to begin with). Like, are these really all that different?

it's not a big difference no, I just mainly thought there was a contrast between

2.1 I am playing, just I feel I'm doing so poorly and I don't know what to do.

and "This is my fucking town game" from this game

Kitty feels marginally more invested in continuing to sort / explain reads / ask questions here than in Turing Test where he made a long string of contentless posts or posts lamenting that he was scum read

it's not really the biggest difference but it just gives me some pause

[catboi]

catboi, do you have a solid read on fire?

could you answer this catboi?

Yeah sorry, I didn't miss that post but I am incredibly busy today so it's going to take me a while to get to things. I thought his response to me badgering him about his Val read was towny and the explanation was satisfactory and the paranoia about me earlier felt believable. I haven't gotten around to fully processing his posts from last night but right now I'd say town.

[Dannflor]

no problem sorry, I didn't realize you hadn't read

I look forward to rolling scum against you if that is enough to make you change your read on me. Because while it's the correct conclusion it's pretty bad process that can be pretty easily exploited - like if I was scum with Marashu why wouldn't I try to move off him?

I only asked because this feels... like a vaguely incurious thing to say to someone and I was wondering if the reason was that you had a very strong town read on fire or something. Because it reads like you're talking to someone you know or think is town pretty strongly, because generally I feel like my reaction to seeing a bad process would be to interrogate it a little more?

[catboi]

no problem sorry, I didn't realize you hadn't read

I look forward to rolling scum against you if that is enough to make you change your read on me. Because while it's the correct conclusion it's pretty bad process that can be pretty easily exploited - like if I was scum with Marashu why wouldn't I try to move off him?

I only asked because this feels... like a vaguely incurious thing to say to someone and I was wondering if the reason was that you had a very strong town read on fire or something. Because it reads like you're talking to someone you know or think is town pretty strongly, because generally I feel like my reaction to seeing a bad process would be to interrogate it a little more?

There was a time I would have jumped on that comment but I've seen bad process come from town a lot so I've cooled on attacking that thing. I'm not sure what you interpret that question as other than an interrogation, though.

[Dannflor]

it felt more rhetorical than not to me but it's possible I was just reading what I wanted

how do you feel about marashu right now / the marashu wagon