Mini Normal 2283 - Game Over!

[Elements]

Elements, wanna vote Frog?

no

[Bellaphant]

I spoke about eira recently: I can't see the scum motivation in their approach to me, specifically about when I said the 'game was unreadable'.
I think fire is town for similar reasons .I don't think three town are voting me right now, when two haven't engaged with me at all.
You repeating your statement is just massively unhelpful and I think you know that. Please, talk to me about aisa removed from Eir: one town post in her iso, even.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Can you link to what you're specifically talking about with regards to Eira?

I think Aisa's flip-flopping on me is quite townie. I think it's a genuine attempt to read me and the only part that pinged me was the 'I'll never be able to read BBT' as I don't think we have played together all that much and so I'm not sure where that would come from. Felt like she was leaving the door open to vote me at any point which was a little icky.

[Not_Mafia]

VOTE: Frog

[Cat Scratch Fever]

VC 2.04

With 10 players, it takes 6 to make a decision. Day 2 ends in (expired on 2022-10-27 11:00:00).

VC

Frogsterking [4]:

Aisa [1072], Bellaphant [1122], BlueBloodedToffee [1124], Not_Mafia [1128]

BlueBloodedToffee [2]:

Grib [1014], Elements [1021]

Bellaphant [2]:

Firebringer [1008], Enchant [1120]

Aisa [1]:

Frogsterking [1073]

Not voting [1]:

Eiralox

Mod Notes

- Grib is v/la until Tuesday
- Prodding Frogsterking

[Aisa]

Maybe I'm overreacting, but if that case on me is the best Tadpole can muster, then I don't feel especially inclined to change my mind. It seems like a really easy shot for scum to take. Frog, do you think you could talk me through a bit? How is making "pockety" posts scum-indicative? How else does my overarching play reflect a scum agenda? Who are my partners?
[...]

Bonus question @Frog: do you have any

medium

or

high

certainty reads?

[Elements]

so this wagon has escalated quickly

[Aisa]

I suppose it has
It's kinda hard to tell what's normal and what's not with a Not Mafia and an Enchant (<3)
What do you think it means?

[Enchant]

I am normal.

I playing normal game.

[Aisa]

I got excited because I saw the "first unread post" pop up and I thought you were Elements replying to my question : (

[Enchant]

I got excited because I saw the "first unread post" pop up and I thought you were Elements replying to my question : (

Not happy to see me?

[Aisa]

Always happy to see you, it's just Elements can provide something you cannot right now

[Enchant]

I can everything

[Elements]

What do you think it means?

I think it makes Frog less likely scum and you more likely scum

[Elements]

hmm, actually maybe it doesn't make you more likely scum

[Aisa]

All of my thoughts feel stupid or useless, but I'm going to force myself to say them in case they are of some use to someone.

--
My current readslist is:

Me - towniest of town
Eira, Grib, Fire - really trust them

Elements, Enchant, Bella - gave me town vibes at some point, but I don't really trust them
Not Mafia - nullness wasteland. While I am on topic, may I humbly suggest a vig shot here if we elim scum today?
BBT, Frog - not inclined to trust them, but "scumleans" would be sending the wrong message
--

So my current townblock is myself, Eira, Grib, and Firebringer. That leaves 6 other players, of which I'm assuming 3 are scum, which isn't bad at all, but I'm having real trouble picking out the 3 scum.

I haven't really tried to sort Bella yet, she may be tractable and being able to tr her would be a huge win, so I might look into her soon.

I like Element's readslist and think it's mildly +town. It's still possibly consistent with Elements bussing her partners fmpov.

Bella and BBT have a lot of partner equity. BBT and Frog also have a lot of partner equity. I was gonna say it could also be Elements + someone, but on closer inspection / consideration she doesn't have very partnery vibes with anyone in my PoE, a good sign.

The way she's just gone back on her read on Frog in the post above, for example - I don't think El is the kind of player who would fake a lot of hedgey reads as scum, so I'm guessing no more than one of [Frog, Elements] is scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I think it makes Frog less likely scum and you more likely scum

Why?

Aisa, can you talk about those partner equities? Also, why doesn't Scum!Elements back track a scum read on Scum!Frog when a wagon picks up and why do you think it's more likely for Frog to be bussed if he is scum?

[Aisa]

[...]
My case is this;

Eira town reads you based on gut (and says the read is strong)
I ask him to explain this read
He refuses to explain it but says he will get to it eventually before continually dodging
When he does finally get around to it he tries to use later posts that didn't exist to justify an early read and that's not how it works
Then he finally gives up because he can't explain it and refuses to engage

I promised a response to this.
That kinda makes sense. Point #3 is the one I have an issue with - "says he will get to it eventually" - I get that it's a stretch to assume Eira didn't promise he would explain the gut read specifically, but *shrug* I believe it.

I don't know if we will ever see eye to eye on this if you are town, so it may be best to leave this discussion there.

[Aisa]

[...]
Aisa, can you talk about those partner equities?

Sure.

Assume you and Frog are scum: you're both in an iffy spot today, it's fairly likely the elim will be between the two of you. In a situation like this I think it's quite natural for scum to bus, your jump onto Frog is perfectly timed to be just that. You were both on the Solway wagon.

You and Bella: if Bella is scum I think she is softly" trying to mess with that townblock I was talking about by saying she feels iffy about me, Grib, Eira, etc. and you're "enabling" her big time. Also, you are kind of a meme and it would be neat if you two were the same alignment.

Also, why doesn't Scum!Elements back track a scum read on Scum!Frog when a wagon picks up

Wait, you're right, that actually doesn't make any sense, I messed up the chain of logic somewhere

[Aisa]

I don't think El is the kind of player who would fake a lot of hedgey reads as scum, so I'm guessing no more than one of [Frog, Elements] is scum.

Change that to "Elements is only scum if Frog is scum", I guess.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Sure.

Assume you and Frog are scum: you're both in an iffy spot today, it's fairly likely the elim will be between the two of you. In a situation like this I think it's quite natural for scum to bus, your jump onto Frog is perfectly timed to be just that. You were both on the Solway wagon.

You and Bella: if Bella is scum I think she is softly" trying to mess with that townblock I was talking about by saying she feels iffy about me, Grib, Eira, etc. and you're "enabling" her big time. Also, you are kind of a meme and it would be neat if you two were the same alignment.

I disagree that Frog and myself were/are in iffy spots today. I think Frog is *now* in an iffy spot and my vote is a good part of the reason for that. Can you tell me how the timing of my vote is more likely to be a bus? Can you also tell me how both of us being on the Solway wagon makes us have higher scum equity as well? You're saying a lot of things that don't really make sense here.

I can't even make sense of the Bella stuff - how am I enabling her? I'm kind of a meme?

[Elements]

BBT and Aisa aren't both scum

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Meh, my town read on Aisa is kind of dying.

I'm starting to wonder if that early town read from Eira on Aisa is scum/scum but that seems absolutely wild.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

On the subject of Eira, if anyone can tell me a single stance he has this game outside of his town read on Aisa I'll be impressed.

[Aisa]

On the subject of Eira, if anyone can tell me a single stance he has this game outside of his town read on Aisa I'll be impressed.

Sure.

Assume you and Frog are scum: you're both in an iffy spot today, it's fairly likely the elim will be between the two of you. In a situation like this I think it's quite natural for scum to bus, your jump onto Frog is perfectly timed to be just that. You were both on the Solway wagon.

You and Bella: if Bella is scum I think she is softly" trying to mess with that townblock I was talking about by saying she feels iffy about me, Grib, Eira, etc. and you're "enabling" her big time. Also, you are kind of a meme and it would be neat if you two were the same alignment.

I disagree that Frog and myself were/are in iffy spots today. I think Frog is *now* in an iffy spot and my vote is a good part of the reason for that. Can you tell me how the timing of my vote is more likely to be a bus?

Who do you think would have been a likely elim had you not voted Frog? I can't see any other wagon as likely to go through, but I suppose I may be biased.

Assuming you and Frog were in an iffy spot, the timing for your vote would have been a typical bus because you would have tested a couple other wagons (me, Eira) first, seen they weren't gaining traction, then resigned yourself to bussing for the towncred.

Can you also tell me how both of us being on the Solway wagon makes us have higher scum equity as well? You're saying a lot of things that don't really make sense here.

That may just be a me thing, whenever I think about Solway I get this vision of you and Frog plotting the mislim in the scum PT, can't explain it better than that.

I can't even make sense of the Bella stuff - how am I enabling her? I'm kind of a meme?

You talk to each other and ask each other for opinions, which makes it look like you may be giving each other a platform and working together to achieve miselims.

*You two* are kind of a meme because you often talk about each other. This isn't a serious point, it would be wholesome if you were scum together, but the RNG speaketh not in those terms.

On the subject of Eira, if anyone can tell me a single stance he has this game outside of his town read on Aisa I'll be impressed.

They supported the Solway wagon.