Warrior Cats Mafia [Day Three]

[Bell]

Mine. I'm paying close attention.

[PenguinPower]

Why is that bullshit penguin

I feel like it makes sense

I mean I don’t read your play so far as scummy as Datisi but I don’t think it’s unfathomable that someone would?

You feel your play has been pretty similar to the opening of datisi’s cafe?

One difference I feel just off the top of my head is that I feel like you may have had more pet scum reads there (like your push on SS), as opposed to hear you feel pretty comfortable just being on the biggest wagon

do you agree? is there a reason for that?

You feel your play has been pretty similar to the opening of datisi’s cafe?

One difference I feel just off the top of my head is that I feel like you may have had more pet scum reads there (like your push on SS), as opposed to hear you feel pretty comfortable just being on the biggest wagon

do you agree? is there a reason for that?

I actually disagree with that fairly strongly. I didn't scum read s_s for serious until D2 and there wasn't really competing wagons to push strongly given Ircher's scumslip except for ydrasse and Ausuka (I was on ydrasse until moving to Ircher).

What were my pet scum reads there?

Mmm maybe I have a false memory

K

[PenguinPower]

Well shit. Glad I quoted that.

[PenguinPower]

Ahhhh - I didn’t.

[Bell]

My advisory panel says that because Dannflor's posts weren't spontaneous I shouldn't be persuaded by them.

If you want my metadar, which does not and has not ever worked.
I'd say I'd think Danflorr is a bit more aggro and isn't actually the type to get lost in the weeds, I actually tend to think they're at their best when they're just going from person to person busting their chops for existing with a mystery about. I'm not really used to their friendly overtures, their positioning or their hedgy statements. But I'm not super confident in being able to read Danflorr. Which I will say about everyone btw. Because I'm just not super confident.

[Bell]

i do think it odd that I think the last game I played with them I was scum and I tend to think players that have recently caught me (not a hard thing to do) here they're not really...
conf biasing or engaging with me when they should have some sort of confidence boost. On the other hand, that was fucking forever ago.
It just makes me think they're not terribly interested because they've made decisions already. Or maybe it's just the context and they chose to go for a lighter touch.
Don't really get it.

[Dannflor]

honestly bell I don't expect you to be very hard to read over time

maybe that is hubris

[Bell]

It really isn't

[Alisae]

I actually expect Bell to be obvtown or bust.

[Dannflor]

I don’t know I think the way you’ve handled datisi is really weird and kinda shuts him down

But it seems like the type of pet read town has rather than something you’re waving around to try to get cred

[Bell]

I dunno why you wouldn't want a slam dunk early tho if you thought it made sense for me to be scum this game. Maybe I just think of you as a more committed character, but while I tend to go for the lowest activity players first due to just admitting that I can be wrong and there's not much point killing off the players that hypothetically could be readable later, I didn't really think you were the type. I also don't really know why you'd just sit on the side lines when your previous approach to busting my chops worked out well. Why change what isn't broken?

@Alisae, lmk when I reach obvtown status.

[Dannflor]

oh well I'm not scum reading you so that's why?

[Alisae]

@Alisae, lmk when I reach obvtown status.

you are far from obvtown and if you were obvtown I wouldn't have to read you myself...

[Bell]

It's actually not weird from my perspective.
I dunno if Datisi ever reads my notes, but I kind of always do the same thing with them and I say as much every game.
I try to demoralize him because he says he has imposter syndrome when they're scum and then I just see if they breakdown or not. I also haven't misread them in a game so far, though I know they disagree with that and blame it largely on activity/circumstances for getting caught (also, just for me, please, please, please overlook it. Just because I've gotten lucky and been on the right side of history 3-4 times does not make me good at reading them, the same applies to Cephrir).
Though, I also just tend to tunnel off of first impressions. It's not a good trait, except when I'm right which is not often.

[Dannflor]

marashu what do you have the most conviction in right now

My own role. But all seriousness aside, because of some PT things I think I'm pretty settled on town!Chartoux.

could you give some basic description of what made you feel this way beyond "some PT things"

I just want to get a feeling for what you want right now

Like you're voting alisae sure but do you like care at all if a wagon builds on Alisae

you said the discussion right now feels pretty healthy - what about it? what about it is interesting to you? I feel like you're only interacting with things that are directly addressed to you when you pop into the thread and I wanna know what else is catching your eye

[Bell]

@Alisae, lmk when I reach obvtown status.

you are far from obvtown and if you were obvtown I wouldn't have to read you myself...

I said let me know when I reach obvious town status. Not that I've reached obvious town status.

[Dannflor]

taken out of context it sounds like you're explaining how to torture datisi

[Dannflor]

I think I prefer to give potential strong townies more room to do their thing because I know how it feels to basically be given no slack for what feels like no reason, and like it feels like greater EV to give a little breathing room because you can always ramp up the torture again later

but if it works for you whatever

[catboi]

Catboi keeps asking questions that I don't believe he actually cares about the answer to. 606 is like a fun sounding rebuttal and looks surface-level curious but I don't think a townie actually looks at Mistyx's post and asks themselves that question. I think it's fairly obvious what Mistyx was trying to accomplish. I find still find his response to fireisredsir in 825 skeevy. I don't think you tend to talk to someone like that unless you know they are town. I think even if you are townreading that person, you still interrogate that process because that is the point I would consider maybe someone slipped up. Catboi claims he did interrogate fire but the tone and phrasing of the question, again, does not make me believe catboi is actually interested in an answer. I don't know what catboi hoped to gain from asking me if I felt Marashu was the best vote in 900. It feels like a good productive question but I feel a townie goes the extra step of realizing, hey, Dannflor is voting Marashu, what other answer is he going to give but "yes."

Now it feels like you're trying to nitpick me because it's really not hard to see what I mean by these, I don't think.

The thing about misty's question is that it looked pointlessly inflammatory to norwee - it didn't really look like a question aimed at sorting him in any sort of fashion, just trying to provoke an already upset target. That kid of thing often results in a townie flailing themselves into an elimination. Misty did give an explanation after but I'm not sure how much I buy it.

I don't know what I can tell you about the question to fire except that I did, in fact, want an answer? Like what the fuck am I supposed to say to that, lmao. I can get cheeky about not being out of my scum range as town from time to time. Don't know what to tell you. As scum I usually just shrug and move on at a bad townread.

The question about Marashu is because

I wanted to know why you were voting Marashu

. To that point You had given literally no elaboration on the Marashu read and it felt like you didn't really care about your vote.

The other major problem is that I feel like his pushes are inorganic. 352 looks like its designed to showcase that catboi is continually thinking about the game and rereading. I don't see a believable thorough line here as to why he went back to this post. My vision might be colored a little bit here because I've been nurturing the theory that catboi/Marashu is S/S for some time now, but it really reads to me like catboi made that push because he realized he hadn't interacted with Marashu well enough yet / his interactions with Marashu were bad. And again, I don't feel like catboi is looking for anything in particular from Marashu. He doesn't wait for a response before moving on. I don't think catboi got anything out of that.

Possibly this is happening because I

am

continually thinking about the game. When my brain gets in mafia mode it's hard for me to turn it off, and sometimes I'll have a thought about the game and want to go back and check it and when I do so I get new ideas from reading posts over again, because things aren't always apparent to me on my first reading.

What

actually happened

there was that I was starting to feel like my Ceph vote was stale, and not a good one because it was both unlikely to start a wagon or get anything useful out of Ceph, plus I felt less confident about him being scum then when I made a snap gut vote in RVS. And that Marashu post was made

in answer to a question I asked

and had only been made roughly an hour prior. My intial reaction to his answer was "eh, whatever", and then I went back and thought a little more about it and decided the response was unsatifactory.

The question is why the fuck would you expect a town thought process to have a "believable through line" to going back to a post? Do you believe everything a town player does should be neatly traceable? I could have spelled all this out in exacting detail going "hey you know what, I don't care for my ceph vote anymore and actually now that I've had time to think it over Marashu's answer to me is unsatisfactory" except I don't do that, literally no one does, because I don't need to lay out literally every thing that goes through my head.

It's borderline insulting that you believe I'm that bad at faking interactions that I'd feel obligated to make that vote to force an interaction with Marashu, as opposed to...I don't know, simply interacting with him. And if my goal was to

create an interaction with Marashu

, why do I then move on

without a response from Marashu

? The theory doesn't even hold up to its own internal logic. I really don't believe this is something you actually believe is true. As it stands, what happened was kittytacky made some posts I thought were bad, so I moved my vote to him instead of Marashu. It's not very complicated. I vote hop a fair bit on Day 1 and the idea that I'm obligated to keep my vote on Marashu until he responds to me is nonsense. (as it was, I kind of came to feel like I was forcing the case after a while)

My first reaction to the KittyTacky push was that I did not expect town!catboi to jump on KittyTacky so aggressively. I still don't think the case for KittyTacky scum is very strong. I realize this is contradictory as I wouldn't really be surprised if KittyTacky flipped scum. But my scum read there is more lazy than anything else. I don't feel passionate about it. I don't think there's really a good reason yet to feel passionate about it. I think KittyTacky's 583 is surface level scummy, but the hop onto the Norwee wagon would give me pause. I would expect "newbscum" to be a lot more self conscious about votes that don't have personal reasons attached. The underexplaining of the vote makes me reconsider. It feels like a very easy thing to jump on and I just... am surprised catboi felt more passionate about that than anything else in the game. I expect prodding at that or even voting it. I don't really expect the aggression catboi displayed. It feels like the exact type of thing I would jump on as scum because whew it's so easy and so obviously scummy.

My response to all of this is...so what? Like, agree to disagree I guess. You can call it surface level and obvious but sometimes those type of reads are just right. I'm not you, I don't think about the game the way you do. But to start off in a large game I'm going to probably push players like that that look 'easy' until they either towntell or I decide they're scummy and I want them dead.

I also am

very confused

as to why you're being critical of me feeling passionate about that read when you have no scumreads you're passionate about yourself? Like, I'm not making a banal hypocrisy attack here but I have no idea why you expect me to care more about *waves hands* something else, when you don't feel strongly about many reads yourself.

I feel like catboi has been the one holding our PT at arms length the most. I feel like I'm ripping this straight from catboi's post, but he feels so supremely "just there." He's been doing some mediation between Datisi and S_S which feels so unnecessary and LAMIST. The thread health of our neighborhood isn't a big enough issue, Datisi and S_S weren't even getting heated. It felt like doing catboi was doing something because he knew it looked towny not because he actually thought it was going to help the game. Like, I also thought their spat in our hood was making it very obvious they were both town, but I did not want to stop it because it felt very very revealing the more they got down into it. I also just think before then catboi has had a disturbing lack of reactions to anything happening in the hood. Mastina had a huge entrance. Datisi had a big emotional reaction at the start of the hood. Catboi has been deliberate in not giving early reads on either me or Datisi, and for some time I gave catboi the benefit of the doubt that he was just in information gathering phase. But I don't really get the sense that catboi has been like, genuinely responding to these events, even in a very delayed fashion.

Now, catboi is accusing me of the same thing which... I think is accurate to an extent. I have pretty deliberately been on observation mode so far this game. Partially for lack of time and partially because I haven't felt very confident on any scum reads yet. I don't get the sense that catboi is lacking either confidence in his pushes or that he's deliberately being more passive. For some reason his hood presence is just way less than his main thread presence.

The thing about holding the hood at arm's length is absolutly true. The thing is, I'm pretty sure I explicitly said as much in there. While the neighborhood is fun and all, I am not typically someone who talks a bunch in neighborhoods. I don't like them very much. This is verifiable fact for anyone who knows me.

In particular with this game, I believe that there is a

high likelihood

of scum being in your own neighborhood. To that end, I see basically no sense in having conversations in the neighborhood that are separate from the main thread because I am treating the hood as

innately compromised

. Having conversations in the hood that are not seen by the main thread just means there is a 100% chance your posts will be relayed to the scumteam while most of the game thread doesn't see them. I wouldn't say anything in the hood I wouldn't say in the main thread. (and yes, I know I softed my role in there).

(I've also been tremendously busy the past few days because I've had a deadline at work I've been crunching to meet and basically did not have the time to respond/interact in real time or in detail)

1) don't like the way catboi outed the read. the leadup to it > to outing it when I outed my scum read of catboi feels overly performative. catboi hasn't really trying to poke or prod me at all outside of me beginning interactions with him. that's not what I would expect from someone who has been nursing a genuine scum read on me for a majority of the game.

I mean, I did prod at you a little but I just really didn't have much to ask about, because you didn't do a lot that was interesting to me. It was your

lack

of content I found towny that was notable and when you don't get me much to work with I'm not going to be poking at things.

2) don't like the way catboi seems to not actually want me dead. continues to feel performative. I think if catboi genuinely scum read me to the strength he claims, he would campaign for my elimination. and he should. He is already undercutting himself by saying he doesn't think I will get eliminated D1. I have been eliminated D1 as scum before. I don't think catboi is someone to get hungup on player charisma or popularity or whatever. I think if catboi had a strong scum read on Datisi, he would do his best to make that elimination happen. I don't think it's any different for me. as such, this push feels more about discrediting me and looking town then actually either sorting me or trying to kill me

If I wanted to bury you I would absolutely be doing so. But the thing is I don't really like trying to strongarm games on Day 1 anymore because it's too much of a pain in the ass and I feel like the stuff that is convincing to me is rarely as convincing to everyone else. I can already feel people's brains turning off to this argument. I'm also not at a confidence level where I

want

to hijack the game because if I'm wrong then I'd feel shitty and the game would become miserable. If I thought you were lockscum I'd be absolutely trying to murder you but I don't think it's impossible I might be getting overaggressive here, but at the same time I read you writing all this stuff about me and my instinctual response to it is just "this is bullshit"

[Alisae]

since when the fuck did we have 3 mastinas in a mafia game what the fuck I didn't sign up for this...

[Dannflor]

okay, I'm probably wrong

I'm sorry I feel like that was a waste of time

Let me know if there are any bits of that you would particularly like me to respond to catboi. I don't want to write another wall that makes the thread less fun.

I'm town. I'll show it eventually.

[mastina]

Okay so like.

I promised a catchup today both in the PT and the game thread.

I ran out of time, sorry.

I'll have more time tomorrow, so I'll try again then, but in the mean time, I DO have thread content this time!

{Alisae, Norwee} is lockscum.
{Alisae, Norwee, KittyTacky} has a high chance of being all scum.
{Alisae, Norwee, Something_Smart} has a high chance of being all scum.

{Alisae, Norwee, KittyTacky, Something_Smart} has a decent chance of being all scum.

I have good reasons for this but explaining will require me to either prioritize this game first or not run out of time. (Might do that tomorrow? I feel bad for neglecting game two days in a row, maybe longer.)

[catboi]

okay, I'm probably wrong

I'm sorry I feel like that was a waste of time

Let me know if there are any bits of that you would particularly like me to respond to catboi. I don't want to write another wall that makes the thread less fun.

I'm town. I'll show it eventually.

no it's fine this is probably a big waste of energy like I thought it would be

[Dannflor]

would you mind explaining your town read on mastina, catboi

[catboi]

would you mind explaining your town read on mastina, catboi

I thought that her reads made sense for her mainly in the fact that I disagreed with her scumreads