Warrior Cats Mafia [Day Three]

[Alisae]

his datisi push reads like scum pushing datisi.
His concerns are all about early stuff when there should be a lot more to read Datisi off of but his read remained unchanged.

He pushed Marashu over Kitty and Mastina and probably would have got it had Shiro not defused it.
Shiro backed off, voted Datisi off of the same concerns.
Still won't seriously vote mastina.

if I had to guess who is trying to powerwolf in this game I would say it's the bear

[mastina]

{catboi, Datisi, Dannflor, Bell, fireisredsir, Val89, Marashu, Frozen Angel*}
{Charloux, Mixtyx}
(second tier still locktown, just not same certainty--all of them I almost put in the above tier, so the separation between them is very small and nearly nonexistent.)

TOWN:
{SCRRRDBEAR, Cephrir}

{PenguinPower}

TOWN?:
{Shiro, Shiidaji}

???
{KittyTacky}
{Titus}


PROBABLY SCUM:
{Something_Smart}

SCUM:
{Alisae}
{NorwegianboyEE}.

I'm gonna do this a bit differently, instead of town to scum doing strength.

Dann/Datisi/catboi are genuinely never scum here. Ever.
When I say that, I am not exaggerating. I have played it out in my head countless times. I've looked for literally any sign whatsoever.
I've scrutinized every interaction that I've seen from them, and genuinely.
There is zero doubt. No paranoia. None. Not a drop.

I know that I usually exaggerate. I know that I usually am hyperbolic. That when I day a read is 100%, it's not REALLY 100^, I'm just leaving out the small voices of doubt behind the read.

When I say they are 100% town, I mean 100% TOWN. I genuinely don't see the scum. It’s not there. I'm looking for it. But no matter how I slice it. They're just...town.

Next, Alisae and Norwee are both scum.
I genuinely don't see them as town. I've looked. It’s not there. I can't find the townness. All I can see is the scum.
However, I admit it's possible that I just can't see the town in them. I am telling you that they are 100% scum, genuinely no paranoia.

Below that is FA. Removing the shroud of 100%, the actual number is more like 90%, and removing the same shroud, the this-is-town is closer to 85%. I still need to do the research, since it's fully possible she can legit be 100% in her town meta with me 100% certain. But I need to do the research there.

Bell, Marashu, Mistyx are the next step down. Estimate of 75%. They have very very very strong, compelling reasons to be town, it's just that unlike the holy Trinity, I DO have paranoia. I was hiding it before, but it's there. It exists, and is the remaining 25%. Where my reasons could be wrong and the scummier aspects that briefly pinged were right.
But if this were a readslist, I'd still list them as locktown.

Fire might be up with them, but I forget the reason why. I know that part of it is "fire isn’t acting like Cafe him, therefore town", but I had reasons for townlocking him beyond that. If I remember them, will get back to you on him.

Charloux I have no clue where to place tbh.

The next definitive placements are Something Smart and Cephrir. I had one as SLIGHTLY higher than the other while writing this mentally, but I can't remember which was higher right now because they're that close in comparative strength, at about 60% for SS scum, Ceph town.
(Note for percentages: 50% isn’t null, null is 0%. So 60% isn’t "just 10% higher than default", it's 60% higher than default.)

The rest, don't honestly know percentage wise.
Bear, Charlpux, Shiro, and Shiidaji I all loosely think are town, but fucked if I know by how much.


The tl;Dr takeaway tho:
Datisi, catboi, Dannflor all ALWAYS town; NEVER eliminate them.
Genuinely locktown.

Bell, Marashu, Mistyx, probs-FA are all town; NEVER consider eliminating them prior to lylo, and even then think very very hard before doing so, because they're probably town.

Norwee and Alisae ARE scum.
You might not believe it now, but they ARE going to flip scum because they're NOT town.

SS probscum, Ceph probtown, but not infallibly so.

Rest, meh.

Pagetop.

[Alisae]

I'M DOWN TO VOTE MASTINA OR DATISI, SHIRO.

POSTS SHOWING MY MAIN ISSUE WITH DATISI:

Spoiler:

Go to class.
*pokes*

I can't concisely articulate a rebuttal to your argument that every post you make *has* to be toward producing content. Because I didn't say that.
I just think you treat the game more like a chore as scum than as town and your posts reflect that in how you use your ideology.
I would hope you couldn't disagree with the characterization given that's how you described it yourself in a scum PT or two.

I BELIEVE THIS IS A GOOD DESCRIPTION OF THIS SERIES OF POSTS IN PARTICULAR:

VOTE: datisi

you said i have a townie vote, wtf

also fire - why did you unvote me when i was asleep? like, you knew my sleeping schedule beforehand, no?

bc i can feel that i'm not in the vibe of the game yet, esp not in main thread, so i don't think i get much about your alignment by asking that

you can answer if it's something interesting ig

don't you usually like to sort people based on engaging with their pushes on you

if i think they're unreasonable or i sense bad faith from them, yes

i've olayed w you enough and ik you have played w me enough ti sense i was being kinda off

so i guessed that was why and didn't feel it's worthwhile to ask you about it

so in a way, yes i was waiting to see where you went with it because the current vote from you is boring nd doesn't tell me much

ans i do think i'm more engaged in the hood because i love posting in purple pts , i'll prob try to be conscious about it and not let myself get behind in the main thesd

@dann, why is my vote on charloux bad?

also pls excuse typos, currently speedwalking to class and trying ti not get hit by a csr

I just think you treat the game more like a chore as scum than as town and your posts reflect that in how you use your ideology.

i guess i'm more interested in how you are fitting this with my posts so far this game,but i'm also rapidly losing faith in this being s productive line of reasoning

@dann

i do think moonlogicy theories are townie, however my issue is that he assigned scum-motivation to one person for it when a lot of other people have done it, and he never commented on that. that's something that can potentially be scum motivated and i want him to explain his thoughts there

i don't want to vote val rn because i have been wrong before so i want to give more time to sit on that, and i don't think voting him will help me solve him (as it will with charloux)

@fire

i don't remember calling marashu boring (or saying anything about him, really) but i don't really have thoughts on him rn - i'm interested to see where he takes the datisi/bell theory

no thoughts head empty on catboi

why is it that you asked about the two of these specifically?

something something good scumgame big paranoia etc etc

i did vaguely read your thoughts on him but they didn't really resonate with me one way or another, so

i was hoping to gain insight by seeing his read on me but apparently he has NONE so far so idk i will just be vibing there for now

i will combat that bias by immediately forgetting who is in what clan

(but yes agreed, solving by "x scum in y hood" is dumb and we should not do it)

I AM OBSERVING SOMETHING SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT THAN BELL THOUGH, WHAT IS STANDING OUT TO ME IS AN ABSENCE OF DOUBT, CURIOSITY AND PARANOIA IN DATISI'S POSTS. I AGREE THAT THEY DO READ LIKE HOMEWORK.

yes, the point of that post was to address concerns, what would you expect to be different about it from town-me?

I EXPECT TOWN-YOU TO BE LESS CALM AND CHATTY. I FEEL LIKE YOU ARE TRYING TO GET TOWNREAD BY PUSHING USELESS CONVERSATIONS FORWARD UNTIL PEOPLE STOP SUSPECTING YOU. YOU SEEM MENACING HERE WHICH IS DIFFERENT FROM TOWN-YOU.

having read the further posts from bear, i can see where he's coming from and i think his push is very townie. it's *wrong* obviously, but i think his posts show curiosity and solving my alignment that i don't think is very likely to be from scum.

THIS FEELS APPEASING, LIKE YOU'RE TRYING TO GET ME TO STOP SUSPECTING YOU BY TELLING ME WHAT YOU THINK I WANT TO HEAR. TOWN-YOU WOULDN'T REACT WITH THIS LEVEL OF COMFORT AND CONFIDENCE WHEN A "STRANGE BEAR" ACCUSES YOU OF BEING A DARK ONE.

also, why wouldn't i be clam?

BECAUSE TOWN-YOU IS UNINFORMED WHICH CREATES UNCERTAINTY, SOMETHING YOU ARE NOT DISPLAYING.

i get pushed for nonsense in the early game practically every other game nowadays. i didn't think the current pushes on me were very notable or interesting. i still wanted to address them.

THIS IS A FALSE NARRATIVE INTENDED TO EXPLAIN AWAY YOUR SCUM TELLS. IT IS TRUE THAT YOU ARE OFTEN PUSHED EARLY FOR BAD REASONS; HOWEVER, TOWN-YOU DOESN'T REACT THE WAY YOU ARE REACTING NOW BECAUSE TOWN-YOU HAS TO SORT THE PLAYERS PUSHING YOU. YOU AREN'T TRYING TO SORT PLAYERS LIKE ME WHO ARE PUSHING YOU, YOU ARE JUST TRYING TO APPEAR NONCHALANT AND HOPING TO GET TOWNREAD RANDOMLY ON ACCIDENT BY BEING PRESENT IN THE THREAD.

NEXT, ONCE YOU REALIZE THAT I WILL NOT BE TALKED AWAY FROM MY TONE READ ON YOU, YOU WILL FLIP YOUR READ ON ME AND MAKE BAD EXCUSES WHY MY READ ON YOU SHOULD NOT BE TRUSTED.

Like it seems like he is stuck in 1 half of the game when there is far more to read Datisi off of and I feel like he is opting to ignore all of it.

[Alisae]

I disiked alisae randomly suggesting dann and I could be theatering without seemingly actually suspecting either of us

@Dann

What do you think? Do you agree with this?

uh that specifically didn't bother me

I thought your representation of my scum theatre meta was a little weird and inaccurate. like iirc i did a lot of scum theater with krazy/ceph in alisae v. pine and it trended towards the more aggressive/toxic side of things

I don't really have a problem with the suggestion itself though

I think from the outside the interactions between catboi and myself do probably look weird

What alignment do you think that thought is coming from and why? Idunno if I'm asking this correctly but I just want to hear what comes to your mind when you see Catboi post that

I guess if I think about it I think it's slightly more likely to come from town

I think it's a little outlandish and the sort of weird jump that town tends to be more likely to make

however, I didn't and don't read much into it still because I think our interactions did probably look pretty weird and I could see scum thinking of that

sorry that wasn't a very straightforward answer

No it's fine I just wanted your thoughts on the matter and it's an excellent answer.

[Dannflor]

I like that read

is there a reason you've been waiting to bring it up or is it a recent thing

[Alisae]

I like that read

is there a reason you've been waiting to bring it up or is it a recent thing

I've been sitting on it all game without any real reason to come out with it.
I mentioned the player a couple times in hood to Norwee and said I never really trusted him.

[Datisi]

you have no idea how hard i wish i could call bear scum here

but if i am right on what i think i am right on, and i probably am, i highly highly doubt he is scum here

[Datisi]

PenguinPower - town

why?

[Alisae]

PenguinPower - town

why?

I think how he is trying to encourage wagons is likely his townplay?

[Datisi]

please elaborate on that because i think scum penguin would also be trying to encourage wagons

[Alisae]

hard to elaborate on gut feelings datisi

[Datisi]

well my gut feelings are telling me to yeet the penguin so i was kind of hoping you'd enlighten me there but k

[Alisae]

ya sorry about that

[Charloux]

I think those who think PP is anything apart from a variation of null is lying.

[fireisredsir]

im sick and my brain doesn't work but i kind of read things

ill be maybe here until i fall back asleep

sry for no quotes or links just replying off memory here

@bear i didn't think mastina was scummy and kinda felt like she will get easier to read over time. and i have thought datisi was townier lately idk i just didn't really want to vote him

@datisi about your response to pressure in invictus, idr that tbh i wasn't trying to sort you in that game. compelling point if true tho ill check it out later

@penguin what makes you say norwee description of mastina doesn't match up to datisis cafe. i thought she was evolving her opinions based on new info p frequently there but its possible that mostly came after flips and claims which is kinda why i wanted to wait until a later day to see how she's progressed. i think i maybe talked myself into agreeing with you actually

idr if there was other things i wanted to respond to

maybe v/la for a couple days

[PenguinPower]

I think those who think PP is anything apart from a variation of null is lying.

I'm the Chad variation of null.

but yeah - no one in this game can read me accurately D1 but I obviously don't mind being pocketed.

[Datisi]

lol - like i don't come out against datisi as scum here but whatever.

y

[fireisredsir]

was about to vote t3 for perpetual catchup without content

then i realized i missed his content cause it was in a spoiler

then i kinda wanted to vote him for the content

fireisredsir scummy that he said Datisi and Marashu are the same level of scummy, didn’t distinguish, implies an underlying agenda

what is the context for this and why is it scummy

and like why specifically does that apply to me when everyone in the game has people who they think are roughly the same level of scummy, that's just like a thing that happens that everyone does i don't get your point here

[Alisae]

Ya I don’t put too much weight in my d1 pp read if it’s scum I should be able to catch it later because it’ll move in ways I would expect scum to move.

[PenguinPower]

@penguin what makes you say norwee description of mastina doesn't match up to datisis cafe. i thought she was evolving her opinions based on new info p frequently there but its possible that mostly came after flips and claims which is kinda why i wanted to wait until a later day to see how she's progressed. i think i maybe talked myself into agreeing with you actually

She was pretty solid in her reads for most of that game after D1...I didn't read her walls but just looked at her readlists.

[PenguinPower]

lol - like i don't come out against datisi as scum here but whatever.

y

uh...because i think you're hard to get pushed through and i could just hop on an easier wagon and just be like "wagons are good wooooo!"

[Datisi]

i don't get the idea you're the main pusher or my wagon

or really trying to push it rn either

so idk what about the difficulty of it would stop you

[PenguinPower]

i don't get the idea you're the main pusher or my wagon

or really trying to push it rn either

so idk what about the difficulty of it would stop you

ok cool - you live in a different reality

[fireisredsir]

ig looking again, mastina could be doing the thing where she spends like way more words talking about everything besides actual reasons for reads so that it looks like she has content bc she keeps posting massive walls but none of them actually provide any game advancing material

idk

@penguin i think its the reasoning thats more important tho. like she had points (titus claim, my claim) where she clearly was adjusting her reads and direction based on new info. her overall readlist might have stayed similar but her thoughts were changing. i do think most of that was after d1 tho. and even a lot of d2 she was singularly focused on the roden angle

[Dannflor]

VOTE: mastina