Cosmos Mafia (Dawn 1)

[Past Present Future]

10 ->

Is she antagonizing everyone

No She's antagonizing me, but not everyone.

That’s pretty much what happened in that Mastina scumgame I referenced. She was pissing off a lot of people in that because she made like a gazillion posts AtEing pretty much for the sake of AtEing. It was excessive and felt really manipulative. I don’t feel that here. I’m not going to be able to explain to you why but this is her town meta.

Ate doesn’t count as antagonizing to me. Antagonize means to make hostile.

I think the only players she’s done that with is me

The ate is definitely excessive (given mod intervention I feel that’s fair)

And I feel it’s manipulative to try to escape the block.

I think the only person who could save Mastina is her.

I was personally so irritated by it in that game, I would have been completely onboard with policying her. I almost seriously considered blocking her posts, that’s how extremely annoying it was. Nothing remotely like this. Why does scum!Mastina say you will give up your right to read me ever and this is my towniest game ever? When has she ever done anything like that as scum?

[Past Present Future]

But regardless if you’re arguing antagonizing everyone = scum Mastina
You’re arguing against the reasons Yume thinks Mastina is town.

So I fail to see your point?

I’m saying that her AtE in that game was somewhat comparable to yours in LOST but 1000% worse.

[MathBlade]

But regardless if you’re arguing antagonizing everyone = scum Mastina
You’re arguing against the reasons Yume thinks Mastina is town.

So I fail to see your point?

I’m saying that her AtE in that game was somewhat comparable to yours in LOST but 1000% worse.

Which that goes against the document Yume had me have to verify Mastina’s alignment.

Ate = town

But you’re saying Ate = scum

So either the document is wrong (which makes Yume wrong or reasonless) or you are?

[MathBlade]

10 ->

Is she antagonizing everyone

No She's antagonizing me, but not everyone.

That’s pretty much what happened in that Mastina scumgame I referenced. She was pissing off a lot of people in that because she made like a gazillion posts AtEing pretty much for the sake of AtEing. It was excessive and felt really manipulative. I don’t feel that here. I’m not going to be able to explain to you why but this is her town meta.

Ate doesn’t count as antagonizing to me. Antagonize means to make hostile.

I think the only players she’s done that with is me

The ate is definitely excessive (given mod intervention I feel that’s fair)

And I feel it’s manipulative to try to escape the block.

I think the only person who could save Mastina is her.

I was personally so irritated by it in that game, I would have been completely onboard with policying her. I almost seriously considered blocking her posts, that’s how extremely annoying it was. Nothing remotely like this. Why does scum!Mastina say you will give up your right to read me ever and this is my towniest game ever? When has she ever done anything like that as scum?

I can think of a few games but I don’t want to link hunt at midnight

Iirc mod is mafia or werewolves I think?

Games from that era blur but she lays it on thick

[Past Present Future]

But regardless if you’re arguing antagonizing everyone = scum Mastina
You’re arguing against the reasons Yume thinks Mastina is town.

So I fail to see your point?

I’m saying that her AtE in that game was somewhat comparable to yours in LOST but 1000% worse.

Which that goes against the document Yume had me have to verify Mastina’s alignment.

Ate = town

But you’re saying Ate = scum

So either the document is wrong (which makes Yume wrong or reasonless) or you are?

It was fake AtE just like yours in LOST except 100% more obviously fake. This is real emotion and that’s why it doesn’t feel manipulative to me or annoying.

[Past Present Future]

Subject: Doubles Mafia Day 2/ Day 2

I honestly think Trojan actually has been putting in some serious work, I have a solid townread on them now

Can I get some details here?

I honestly think Trojan actually has been putting in some serious work, I have a solid townread on them now

Can I get some details here?

I'm also interested in this. I'm clearly not taking this game super seriously... I am doing some amount of solving though but I'm curious to hear about what you mean by "serious work".

When I say "serious work", I don't mean actual game solving effort. I just liked the direction they were going and how they were interacting with me. Essentially they shaped up.

I would still like some specifics. I'm wondering how you came to this conclusion based on what they posted between A and B, and also whether you can convince me they're not scum.

Mastina isn’t an easy read but she seems to be pretty genuine here, where she seems kind of off as scum.

Oh that's a really good way of describing it yeah.

As scum I've tried a lifetime to not feel "off" to myself but to this day, never had a scumgame where I didn't feel 'off'. And when I can tell I am 'off' as scum, I can tell that others can tell, too.

Similarly so for as town. Like this game, I can recognize I'm not the normal town mastina but can still feel that I'm *a* town mastina and am not 'off' to a degree where scumreads on me should exist. They shouldn't.

This is also a mastina scumpost. I believe I recall some game where she went on and on about excuses why she didn't match up to her normal self but was totally town, possibly in the absence of anyone pressing her on it.

Mastina talks about her meta all the time, this is NIA for her,

she is tonally town. I have never seen her effectively fake that in any game where I’ve played with scum!her.

Remember this post. I was right in Doubles and I will be proven right in this game too.

[MathBlade]

Mine was real ate I just struggled because Covid.

I don’t fake emotions well. Mine are almost always genuine alignment be damned.

TBone says the emotions are fake. You say they aren’t. Do you have criteria to establish the fakeness?

I try to stay away from emotion based judging but the ate seems strategic so if I have to pick I pick TBone saying fake.

[Past Present Future]

Mine was real ate I just struggled because Covid.

I don’t fake emotions well. Mine are almost always genuine alignment be damned.

TBone says the emotions are fake. You say they aren’t. Do you have criteria to establish the fakeness?

I try to stay away from emotion based judging but the ate seems strategic so if I have to pick I pick TBone saying fake.

I had some doubts and went back and forth but I feel she’s being genuine. I have proven to be good at tonereading Mastina before. Can T-Bone say the same?

[MathBlade]

Mine was real ate I just struggled because Covid.

I don’t fake emotions well. Mine are almost always genuine alignment be damned.

TBone says the emotions are fake. You say they aren’t. Do you have criteria to establish the fakeness?

I try to stay away from emotion based judging but the ate seems strategic so if I have to pick I pick TBone saying fake.

I had some doubts and went back and forth but I feel she’s being genuine. I have proven to be good at tonereading Mastina before. Can T-Bone say the same?

I don’t have a good enough memory to remember all that.

I tend to judge based on who matches the evidence versus prior history. The exception would be like an extreme amount like 6 games straight and getting her right every time immediately. Prior past reads I find just more often than not don’t pan out as people change.

I think TBone would have to speak for themselves on that.

But like I see the passion you have.

Whatever you’re alignment you’re invested.

If you’re town you really believe it.
If you’re scum you need Mastina alive.

I need to sleep. Like I hope you understand I am hearing you and trying to understand and not just tunneling but I think that barring something conclusive (or Mastina towning it up) I think we need the Mastina elim.

If she’s scum then we look at the people off (which includes you)
If she’s town we look on it.

The game is getting kinda stale

[professotic]

so i think what is happening here is people are using kinda meta-level reasoning, that says that since scum-mastina is capable of looking town, people who see her as obvious scum here are either mistaken, or exaggerating.
so they aren't really looking at what she is writing.
only it's not actually wise to think one knows better than reality.

and sure, one could say it's silly to do obviously scummy things when one is capable of better.
but really, this is mastina, who self-identifies as 'cheeky scumfuck'. of course she would.

also, of course she knows exactly how towny she is not being.
i fully agree that people who misread her here (thinking she could be town) are not demonstrating awesome reading comprehension skills.
just go read 304 again.

agree that the game feels stale.
we should yeet mastina already.

[Bunnyonce]

If I had a vig shot, shooting

Enchant

would be a top choice for me.

~Greeting

[Bunnyonce]

I have a kill list. It's Maid Cafe, T-Bone, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow, Enchant mostly.

Pretty much agree with this list.

~Greeting

[Yume]

Mastina's flowchart
(Skipped prequel as I'm obviously not those people)

Question #	Answer	Notes (if any)
1 -> Is it D1?	Yes	Guide says to stop but Mastina has been elimmed as scum on D1, Source game from her wiki I know there's another more recent game, but I don't want to try to find it when I have 30+ questions to go.
2 -> Does she seem town?	No	Guide says to stop but this is misleading. She looks scum to me but town to others. I think there's enough town reads from others for a yes here to continue. Eg if we went with Yume's opinion we'd continue.
3 -> Trust her what does she do?	Did nothing / Milktown read and bully	Several players have trusted her to elaborate on her FA meta. She has dodge this question multiple times in favor of cherry picking my ISO and outing crumbs. Guide says probably town but proceed as a caution. I will note that one of the options is bully you which she is doing rather heavily here soon as I sussed her.
4 -> Pressure her	Freak out	She's really done all three, but mostly freak out. Guide says she's town however here's a recent scum freak out which is really similar to her freakout here. She complained about obligations but didn't provide much. Here she screamed I'm scum then gave nothing.
5 -> Is she posting up a storm?	No, but yes	No, she's not posting up a storm in general compared to town games I know her from. But some posts have been rapid. This again matches the multiball game. Guide says proceed (or if you view as yes proceed with caution).
6 -> Is she gloating about scum game?	No	No Definite proceed
7 -> Does Mastina have delusions of grandeur?	No?	Far as I can tell she's never thought she's a celebrity? I am pretty sure this means something else but I'm not sure how to respond to it. Either way it says proceed. A lot of these questions are proceed anyway and seem kind of meaningless.
8 -> Is she waffling	No	Her reads have been extremely static Definite proceed .
9 -> Does she look like she's wanting to leave a legacy	Maybe? Leaning no	She's screamed more that people suck than townreading her or recent reads. She seems way more focused on stopping the wagon versus a legacy. However before she went entirely 8 hour ISO there were hints? I put maybe for benefit of doubt.
10 -> Is she antagonizing everyone	No	She's antagonizing me, but not everyone.
11 -> Did she ramble about MD theory?	No	No Definite proceed
12 -> Has Mastina gone on long rambles in thread?	Not sure	She's done walls but I don't see any particular things like town rambles (like I cited earlier). However some of her screaming could be rambles? This is too subjective and when combined with trying to figure out day chat I don't know how to answer this question.
13 -> Has Mastina made a case for why she could be scum?	No	She hasn't scumcased herself. Definite proceed
14 -> Has Mastina gave strong reasons for why she's town?	Yes	She given threats as well as many LAMISTy posts Definite proceed
15 -> If applicable did she crumb her role and claim it immediately?	Maybe/No*	Going with maybe/no. She said she was crumbing, but I don't find any evidence of so and considering she didn't attempt any counter claim of my day vig, this implies she's not a vig. The fact she said our roles are similar boggles my mind she didn't do a sort of counter claim. I'm not really sure what she was alluding to (and it's not an invitation to ask) but she's welcome to explain when she gets to E-1. The maybe is more benefit of the doubt but that conflict is a logical bridge too far. Seems just rolefishing. Proceed maybe town/definite proceed.
16 -> Do the circumstances make her look town?	Hell no	Again this is a subjective question but this to me is an absolutely not. Seems a repeat of question 1. This says proceed but question 1 seems to continue. Continuing.
17 -> Is she irrational?	Yes	Guide says she's town. This is the first question that I agree with so far that's gotten a definitive town besides the contradictory one. However, as a counter example she was rather irrational in the scum game I linked. This question seems out of date. I also find things irrational that other people claim to be and vice versa. Not sure this question is meant for people like me.
18 -> Has she lost her temper	Yes/Looks fake	She's definitely lost her temper, but she's done that in town and scum games. I don't judge emotions as true/fake but Tbone said it looked fake. This therefore is unreadable.
19 -> Is she spewing random, illogical theories?	No	While this question is similar to 17, I'm going with no here. She's had one illogical, seemingly strategic theory and stuck with it. I'd go with a maybe but either way it's a proceed so proceeding.
20 -> Is Mastina's posting wildly inconsistent?	No.	Her posting has a consistent narrative. Therefore it cannot be wildly inconsistent. definite proceed
21 -> Does her posting look intentional?	Yes	Looks like she had an agenda to get me miselimmed. Guide says proceed.
22 -> Does she show interest in finding scuml?	No	She looks like she has her world come hell or high water. And I know it's wrong. Definite proceed
23 -> Do her points have a town point of view?	No?	I'm not sure what this means. I don't see a town person writing these posts. If I pretend she's town I don't see why town outs town crumbs. But it's a light no since I don't understand the question. I'm not really able to answer the second half of this question through Mastina's eyes as I'm not her.
24 -> Is she spontaneous/whimsical?	No	She seems deliberate and tunneled and goal focused. Definite proceed
25 -> Does she explain her reads with crystal clarity?	No	She's explained neither me nor FA nor a majority of reads with clarity. It's clear who she thinks is scum but not why. This is a proceed anyway.
26 --> Doesn't exist
27 -> Does she explain her reads with crystal clarity?	No	She's explained neither me nor FA nor a majority of reads with clarity. It's clear who she thinks is scum but not why. This is a proceed anyway.
28 -> If behind...?	Unsure	I'm unsure. Some things she seems to cherry pick behind others seem caught up.
29 -> Is she doing anything?	???	This question is filler as proceed either way. I do not scumread her for having a life. I scumread her for her hyperfocus, which even if I was scum (which I'm not) she's not trying to figure out my "scum plan" (it's in quotes as I don't have a scum plan as I'm not scum)
30 -> Is she scumhunting?	Imho no	The guide says she's town but I find she scum hunts when town and not when scum. Again she the prior games I linked.
31 -> Is there minimal resistance to elimming her?	No	SHE'S PROBABLY SCUM, run through the guide again

Overall I still think the condensed case summarizes my case nicely. I think the flowchart says Mastina is scum. Yume I'm sorry I don't see what you do going through this. Unless she towns it up I don't see your offer as a good one. I spent probably way too long on this but I think this from the wiki really summarizes Mastina's game perfectly right now.

Scumastina always has this laser-like focus. Losing focus has done nothing but screw me over. People like focus. They like confidence. They love to see assurance in a read. They want to have a figure be charismatic and to follow. It's an inherent part of people's nature. That's why tunneling is so prevalent, because it works DAMN good and well to get a elimination. People hate doubt. When someone is calling everyone town/scum in rapid circles, AKA circlejerking, people think it's scum trying to miselim anyone. They see desperation and attribute it to being scum. They don't see a town player desperately trying to figure out the game. They see a scum player that is trying to find options. As scum I'd push a elimination through; as town, here I am without a clue.

She has had a laser focus incorrect on me.

Edit: Removed L-Word

There is a minimal resistance to her wagon, for one. Only Past Present and Future are actively resisting, while the others not on the wagon are lurking. That counts as 'minimal resistance' imho.

For two, Mathblade is trying to fit his own viewpoints into the chart, rather than looking at it objectively. And no matter what Titus hydra say, I never saw that kinda thinking as town. In fact, I think mastina is right. Mathblade is trying to lim her because he has to. Because allowing her to live would ensure she destroys him and his partners.

[Maid Cafe]

I'm at the point where we should just send it over and move onto the next day because come on, this thread feels drowned out with the one conversation topic and it needs to change. Even if we vote someone else out we'll just go back to this so pack it up.

[Past Present Future]

That Inventions game kind of corroborates my most recent experience with Scum!Mastina, she can be belligerent like she was to Reckt. I don’t think I’ve ever seen her do that as town. She’s a lot more conscientious of hurting people’s feelings as town but what’s most interesting is that she tries to show she’s town by only or modtly by activity she does not say she does not say things like this is my towniest game ever. She even said she wasn’t obvtown in that. She makes a gazillion excuses because she can’t fake the obvious townie frustration she’s displaying in this game. I can’t even explain it but I have a viscerally negative reaction to her posts when she’s scum.

Oh and Math, I’m sorry for suggesting your emotions weren’t real in LOST. But they did feel very different to me than in PYP.

[Yume]

I won't vote mastina unless my check on her flubs. Is that clear enough for all of you?

[Yume]

Also, if my check is blocked, I will assume scum did it and won't vote for her if that happens either.

[Yume]

So if you want her limmed, either let me check her or get someone who isn't me to vote with you.

[furtiveglance]

I'm officially announcing that Scarfmanship is the counter wagon to Mastina.

This is not a mod announcement.

[Enchant]

mastina guide looks complex

[furtiveglance]

mastina guide looks complex

You are maf

[Enchant]

mastina guide looks complex

You are maf

yes oh wait i mean no

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: Enchant

[Enchant]

there's no mafia in game

can't do shit to me

[Enchant]

I mean you might as well have told scum.

I'm either a Day 2 or Dusk 2 day vig.

I wanted to sit and get reads and fucking listen to people.

FFS I'm literally confirmable.

Just noticed it, why