Cosmos Mafia (Dawn 1)

[Past Present Future]

TBone says the emotions are fake. You say they aren’t. Do you have criteria to establish the fakeness?

I try to stay away from emotion based judging but the ate seems strategic so if I have to pick I pick TBone saying fake.

That's not what I said. I said Mastina knows what town!Mastina is supposed to look like and is overcompensating to play that part. I didn't comment on her emotions, I can't pretend to know what they are, and frustration is NAI.

So it’s fake when she’s playing a part?

You didn’t use the word fake but same difference no?

As the self-proclaimed master of ate:

AtE can be used by both villager's and wolves it's emotion. Sure, Mastina could be a wolf and feeling every emotion she is feeling, but you can fluff it up a little to make it look better in the eyes of the village, or leave some parts out. Now, the context is somewhat important in a "does the way they're reacting make sense or is it just fully overblown and out of control?" That's where you can start drawing the town/scum line. I think fully just calling AtE fake is almost always incorrect though.

Now, where does yours truly stand? Don't care.

I agree with this that ate itself is NAI. It has to make sense. I am not saying ate itself is fake and that’s not been my point. As I said earlier I struggle with emotions. When TBone said Mastina was overcompensating/playing a part that read to me as “faked” like post 1127. I judge Ate based on strategicness instead. Does it look to have a plan? In this case it does as she’s been given ample opportunity to come and townfirm herself? She’s sat on e-2 for how long now? It looks designed to get her OFF versus a scumread ON

mmmmm

if mastina is a wolf I doubt she came in and posted the emotion sprinkled post with the idea of "this is gonna get people to not vote me" if she's a wolf probably just trying to make her teammates look good at this point. Le shrug, I'm ready for the phase to be done with. It feels like the main topic point has dragged on long enough. I think the vote on Enchant by Dumb over there is bad.

“Dumb”? You mean DDS?

[Maid Cafe]

TBone says the emotions are fake. You say they aren’t. Do you have criteria to establish the fakeness?

I try to stay away from emotion based judging but the ate seems strategic so if I have to pick I pick TBone saying fake.

That's not what I said. I said Mastina knows what town!Mastina is supposed to look like and is overcompensating to play that part. I didn't comment on her emotions, I can't pretend to know what they are, and frustration is NAI.

So it’s fake when she’s playing a part?

You didn’t use the word fake but same difference no?

As the self-proclaimed master of ate:

AtE can be used by both villager's and wolves it's emotion. Sure, Mastina could be a wolf and feeling every emotion she is feeling, but you can fluff it up a little to make it look better in the eyes of the village, or leave some parts out. Now, the context is somewhat important in a "does the way they're reacting make sense or is it just fully overblown and out of control?" That's where you can start drawing the town/scum line. I think fully just calling AtE fake is almost always incorrect though.

Now, where does yours truly stand? Don't care.

I agree with this that ate itself is NAI. It has to make sense. I am not saying ate itself is fake and that’s not been my point. As I said earlier I struggle with emotions. When TBone said Mastina was overcompensating/playing a part that read to me as “faked” like post 1127. I judge Ate based on strategicness instead. Does it look to have a plan? In this case it does as she’s been given ample opportunity to come and townfirm herself? She’s sat on e-2 for how long now? It looks designed to get her OFF versus a scumread ON

mmmmm

if mastina is a wolf I doubt she came in and posted the emotion sprinkled post with the idea of "this is gonna get people to not vote me" if she's a wolf probably just trying to make her teammates look good at this point. Le shrug, I'm ready for the phase to be done with. It feels like the main topic point has dragged on long enough. I think the vote on Enchant by Dumb over there is bad.

“Dumb”? You mean DDS?

oh it's Dingle Dangle.

Well I got the D right.

[MathBlade]

To be fair, it feels like everyone that isn't exactly mastina/Radja have got free rides this dayphase and is like 80% of the reason I am voting mastina.

I am sorry it feels that way to you but I feel the opposite.

The wagon stagnating and sub conversations have a distinct feel to them and reads on players have changed several times.

Votes don’t have to move to have reads change.

I think a lot of people will have things to account for.

Plus it’s even worse if we let scum Mastina off the hook for what she’s done. It sends the message you can be an anti town bomb and get townread for it.

She’s even posted a swan song that sounded like her last post.

Anything short of her townfirming herself I don’t want to move.

[MathBlade]

TBone says the emotions are fake. You say they aren’t. Do you have criteria to establish the fakeness?

I try to stay away from emotion based judging but the ate seems strategic so if I have to pick I pick TBone saying fake.

That's not what I said. I said Mastina knows what town!Mastina is supposed to look like and is overcompensating to play that part. I didn't comment on her emotions, I can't pretend to know what they are, and frustration is NAI.

So it’s fake when she’s playing a part?

You didn’t use the word fake but same difference no?

As the self-proclaimed master of ate:

AtE can be used by both villager's and wolves it's emotion. Sure, Mastina could be a wolf and feeling every emotion she is feeling, but you can fluff it up a little to make it look better in the eyes of the village, or leave some parts out. Now, the context is somewhat important in a "does the way they're reacting make sense or is it just fully overblown and out of control?" That's where you can start drawing the town/scum line. I think fully just calling AtE fake is almost always incorrect though.

Now, where does yours truly stand? Don't care.

I agree with this that ate itself is NAI. It has to make sense. I am not saying ate itself is fake and that’s not been my point. As I said earlier I struggle with emotions. When TBone said Mastina was overcompensating/playing a part that read to me as “faked” like post 1127. I judge Ate based on strategicness instead. Does it look to have a plan? In this case it does as she’s been given ample opportunity to come and townfirm herself? She’s sat on e-2 for how long now? It looks designed to get her OFF versus a scumread ON

mmmmm

if mastina is a wolf I doubt she came in and posted the emotion sprinkled post with the idea of "this is gonna get people to not vote me" if she's a wolf probably just trying to make her teammates look good at this point. Le shrug, I'm ready for the phase to be done with. It feels like the main topic point has dragged on long enough. I think the vote on Enchant by Dumb over there is bad.

“Dumb”? You mean DDS?

oh it's Dingle Dangle.

Well I got the D right.

When subtle correction doesn’t work. Titus/Nancy there for the overt lmao

[MariaR]

To be fair, it feels like everyone that isn't exactly mastina/Radja have got free rides this dayphase and is like 80% of the reason I am voting mastina.

I am sorry it feels that way to you but I feel the opposite.

The wagon stagnating and sub conversations have a distinct feel to them and reads on players have changed several times.

Votes don’t have to move to have reads change.

I think a lot of people will have things to account for.

Plus it’s even worse if we let scum Mastina off the hook for what she’s done. It sends the message you can be an anti town bomb and get townread for it.

She’s even posted a swan song that sounded like her last post.

Anything short of her townfirming herself I don’t want to move.

Mmmmmm I understand your point of view, and if we can hold said people regardless then I'm game for it but the likelihood of that happening is pretty meh.

I like having more data or info to work with and right now it feels like a lot of words and not a lot of action. This could be me nagging a little due to motivation but

it still seems like not a lot of pressure was applied to where I'd want it to go. (Not that I would prob do it myself kek)

[Maid Cafe]

To be fair, it feels like everyone that isn't exactly mastina/Radja have got free rides this dayphase and is like 80% of the reason I am voting mastina.

I am sorry it feels that way to you but I feel the opposite.

The wagon stagnating and sub conversations have a distinct feel to them and reads on players have changed several times.

Votes don’t have to move to have reads change.

I think a lot of people will have things to account for.

Plus it’s even worse if we let scum Mastina off the hook for what she’s done. It sends the message you can be an anti town bomb and get townread for it.

She’s even posted a swan song that sounded like her last post.

Anything short of her townfirming herself I don’t want to move.

Mmmmmm I understand your point of view, and if we can hold said people regardless then I'm game for it but the likelihood of that happening is pretty meh.

I like having more data or info to work with and right now it feels like a lot of words and not a lot of action. This could be me nagging a little due to motivation but

it still seems like not a lot of pressure was applied to where I'd want it to go. (Not that I would prob do it myself kek)

Page 54 ego posts are all the rage these days

[furtiveglance]

Is Maria STD's replacement?

[MathBlade]

Is Maria STD's replacement?

Seems like Maid is MariaR

Which makes them obvTown imho.

[Past Present Future]

Mastina's flowchart
(Skipped prequel as I'm obviously not those people)

Question #	Answer	Notes (if any)
1 -> Is it D1?	Yes	Guide says to stop but Mastina has been elimmed as scum on D1, Source game from her wiki I know there's another more recent game, but I don't want to try to find it when I have 30+ questions to go.
2 -> Does she seem town?	No	Guide says to stop but this is misleading. She looks scum to me but town to others. I think there's enough town reads from others for a yes here to continue. Eg if we went with Yume's opinion we'd continue.
3 -> Trust her what does she do?	Did nothing / Milktown read and bully	Several players have trusted her to elaborate on her FA meta. She has dodge this question multiple times in favor of cherry picking my ISO and outing crumbs. Guide says probably town but proceed as a caution. I will note that one of the options is bully you which she is doing rather heavily here soon as I sussed her.
4 -> Pressure her	Freak out	She's really done all three, but mostly freak out. Guide says she's town however here's a recent scum freak out which is really similar to her freakout here. She complained about obligations but didn't provide much. Here she screamed I'm scum then gave nothing.
5 -> Is she posting up a storm?	No, but yes	No, she's not posting up a storm in general compared to town games I know her from. But some posts have been rapid. This again matches the multiball game. Guide says proceed (or if you view as yes proceed with caution).
6 -> Is she gloating about scum game?	No	No Definite proceed
7 -> Does Mastina have delusions of grandeur?	No?	Far as I can tell she's never thought she's a celebrity? I am pretty sure this means something else but I'm not sure how to respond to it. Either way it says proceed. A lot of these questions are proceed anyway and seem kind of meaningless.
8 -> Is she waffling	No	Her reads have been extremely static Definite proceed .
9 -> Does she look like she's wanting to leave a legacy	Maybe? Leaning no	She's screamed more that people suck than townreading her or recent reads. She seems way more focused on stopping the wagon versus a legacy. However before she went entirely 8 hour ISO there were hints? I put maybe for benefit of doubt.
10 -> Is she antagonizing everyone	No	She's antagonizing me, but not everyone.
11 -> Did she ramble about MD theory?	No	No Definite proceed
12 -> Has Mastina gone on long rambles in thread?	Not sure	She's done walls but I don't see any particular things like town rambles (like I cited earlier). However some of her screaming could be rambles? This is too subjective and when combined with trying to figure out day chat I don't know how to answer this question.
13 -> Has Mastina made a case for why she could be scum?	No	She hasn't scumcased herself. Definite proceed
14 -> Has Mastina gave strong reasons for why she's town?	Yes	She given threats as well as many LAMISTy posts Definite proceed
15 -> If applicable did she crumb her role and claim it immediately?	Maybe/No*	Going with maybe/no. She said she was crumbing, but I don't find any evidence of so and considering she didn't attempt any counter claim of my day vig, this implies she's not a vig. The fact she said our roles are similar boggles my mind she didn't do a sort of counter claim. I'm not really sure what she was alluding to (and it's not an invitation to ask) but she's welcome to explain when she gets to E-1. The maybe is more benefit of the doubt but that conflict is a logical bridge too far. Seems just rolefishing. Proceed maybe town/definite proceed.
16 -> Do the circumstances make her look town?	Hell no	Again this is a subjective question but this to me is an absolutely not. Seems a repeat of question 1. This says proceed but question 1 seems to continue. Continuing.
17 -> Is she irrational?	Yes	Guide says she's town. This is the first question that I agree with so far that's gotten a definitive town besides the contradictory one. However, as a counter example she was rather irrational in the scum game I linked. This question seems out of date. I also find things irrational that other people claim to be and vice versa. Not sure this question is meant for people like me.
18 -> Has she lost her temper	Yes/Looks fake	She's definitely lost her temper, but she's done that in town and scum games. I don't judge emotions as true/fake but Tbone said it looked fake. This therefore is unreadable.
19 -> Is she spewing random, illogical theories?	No	While this question is similar to 17, I'm going with no here. She's had one illogical, seemingly strategic theory and stuck with it. I'd go with a maybe but either way it's a proceed so proceeding.
20 -> Is Mastina's posting wildly inconsistent?	No.	Her posting has a consistent narrative. Therefore it cannot be wildly inconsistent. definite proceed
21 -> Does her posting look intentional?	Yes	Looks like she had an agenda to get me miselimmed. Guide says proceed.
22 -> Does she show interest in finding scuml?	No	She looks like she has her world come hell or high water. And I know it's wrong. Definite proceed
23 -> Do her points have a town point of view?	No?	I'm not sure what this means. I don't see a town person writing these posts. If I pretend she's town I don't see why town outs town crumbs. But it's a light no since I don't understand the question. I'm not really able to answer the second half of this question through Mastina's eyes as I'm not her.
24 -> Is she spontaneous/whimsical?	No	She seems deliberate and tunneled and goal focused. Definite proceed
25 -> Does she explain her reads with crystal clarity?	No	She's explained neither me nor FA nor a majority of reads with clarity. It's clear who she thinks is scum but not why. This is a proceed anyway.
26 --> Doesn't exist
27 -> Does she explain her reads with crystal clarity?	No	She's explained neither me nor FA nor a majority of reads with clarity. It's clear who she thinks is scum but not why. This is a proceed anyway.
28 -> If behind...?	Unsure	I'm unsure. Some things she seems to cherry pick behind others seem caught up.
29 -> Is she doing anything?	???	This question is filler as proceed either way. I do not scumread her for having a life. I scumread her for her hyperfocus, which even if I was scum (which I'm not) she's not trying to figure out my "scum plan" (it's in quotes as I don't have a scum plan as I'm not scum)
30 -> Is she scumhunting?	Imho no	The guide says she's town but I find she scum hunts when town and not when scum. Again she the prior games I linked.
31 -> Is there minimal resistance to elimming her?	No	SHE'S PROBABLY SCUM, run through the guide again

Overall I still think the condensed case summarizes my case nicely. I think the flowchart says Mastina is scum. Yume I'm sorry I don't see what you do going through this. Unless she towns it up I don't see your offer as a good one. I spent probably way too long on this but I think this from the wiki really summarizes Mastina's game perfectly right now.

Scumastina always has this laser-like focus. Losing focus has done nothing but screw me over. People like focus. They like confidence. They love to see assurance in a read. They want to have a figure be charismatic and to follow. It's an inherent part of people's nature. That's why tunneling is so prevalent, because it works DAMN good and well to get a elimination. People hate doubt. When someone is calling everyone town/scum in rapid circles, AKA circlejerking, people think it's scum trying to miselim anyone. They see desperation and attribute it to being scum. They don't see a town player desperately trying to figure out the game. They see a scum player that is trying to find options. As scum I'd push a elimination through; as town, here I am without a clue.

She has had a laser focus incorrect on me.

Edit: Removed L-Word

There is a minimal resistance to her wagon, for one. Only Past Present and Future are actively resisting, while the others not on the wagon are lurking. That counts as 'minimal resistance' imho.

For two, Mathblade is trying to fit his own viewpoints into the chart, rather than looking at it objectively. And no matter what Titus hydra say, I never saw that kinda thinking as town. In fact, I think mastina is right. Mathblade is trying to lim her because he has to. Because allowing her to live would ensure she destroys him and his partners.

PPF is, you are, furtive is, like almost everyone not on the Mastina wagon has said a naked “but she’s town” and refused to elaborate further.

It seems like very strong resistance to me. This feels like denial of the facts.

No, you aren’t reading. I have given plenty of reasons. And here’s yet another one, why is she singling out T-Bone and saying he specifically will regret voting her?

Find me one scumgame where she says this is her towniest game ever.

I probably do agree with T-Bone in that I’m relying on my personal experience with playing with Mastina and really don’t care too much about some self-meta chart. Meta is very useful in the short term but how old is this thing?

And what Mastina posts in any game as confiscum, I’d especially ignore. There was very little AtE in that Inventions game where she got limmed on d1.

I should probably clarify in that game I referenced, Mastina’s wincon was 100% dependent on her endgaming.

[Maid Cafe]

Wait, did people not know this was me and beeboy? (Me being Maria) kekw whoops
pedit: I WILL SHOOT WHOEVER DOESN'T SPOIL THAT POST NEXT

[MathBlade]

If I was being optimal I'd call beeboy because he's really good at calling out Mastina BS and I'm sitting here tv static wondering why MMR/Bunny/Dumb get free rides sob
pedit: for the love that all is holy please spoil that

I didn’t know it was you and beeboy. Unless someone explicitly says heads I can’t really tell.

[Maid Cafe]

If I was being optimal I'd call beeboy because he's really good at calling out Mastina BS and I'm sitting here tv static wondering why MMR/Bunny/Dumb get free rides sob
pedit: for the love that all is holy please spoil that

I didn’t know it was you and beeboy. Unless someone explicitly says heads I can’t really tell.

Oh, my bad. Every post has been Maria minus post 1/2

[MathBlade]

That just feels like an artificial barrier
You expect me to read every single one of Mastina’s scum games to determine if you’d agree she’s obvScum before you accept her screaming about how she’s town as scum? But still has to be a scum game. If I find one you can say “obvScum” and just deny it because she’s “obvScum”.

And I did read. The reasons boil down to “trust me bro”
And why does she target TBone and not me, TBone might fall for emotional manipulation but I won’t because I tend to ignore a lot of Ate and just extract facts from it. A big wall of Ate is a huge turn off to me and makes me care less,
I think this game really counts as obvScum here too.

[MathBlade]

If I was being optimal I'd call beeboy because he's really good at calling out Mastina BS and I'm sitting here tv static wondering why MMR/Bunny/Dumb get free rides sob
pedit: for the love that all is holy please spoil that

I didn’t know it was you and beeboy. Unless someone explicitly says heads I can’t really tell.

Oh, my bad. Every post has been Maria minus post 1/2

Thanks!

I just am super bad at who is the poster so I never bother trying to figure it out.

[Past Present Future]

Math and mastina are never teamed. That being said, I don't like being treated like an NPC. "Oh if I just say enough things, the votes will be there and genuine."

Math ignored several times where "the chart" said mastina is town. That's pretty anti-town from Math. Don't think he's scum though.

~Titus

[MathBlade]

Math and mastina are never teamed. That being said, I don't like being treated like an NPC. "Oh if I just say enough things, the votes will be there and genuine."

Math ignored several times where "the chart" said mastina is town. That's pretty anti-town from Math. Don't think he's scum though.

~Titus

I didn’t ignore them. I provided concrete examples of where that is out of date or the question was proceed anyway. Each question has notes so ignored is false. Can you specify an example of what I “ignored”?

[MathBlade]

You’re also not an NPC. The game put the spotlight on me, instead of focusing on other people voting you’re all focused on convincing me to move. I’ve said what it takes. Continuing to hyperfocus on me like you’re the magical hero that will change my mind instead of interacting with other people might contribute.

[Past Present Future]

That just feels like an artificial barrier
You expect me to read every single one of Mastina’s scum games to determine if you’d agree she’s obvScum before you accept her screaming about how she’s town as scum? But still has to be a scum game. If I find one you can say “obvScum” and just deny it because she’s “obvScum”.

And I did read. The reasons boil down to “trust me bro”
And why does she target TBone and not me, TBone might fall for emotional manipulation but I won’t because I tend to ignore a lot of Ate and just extract facts from it. A big wall of Ate is a huge turn off to me and makes me care less,
I think this game really counts as obvScum here too.

I don’t recall her ever making certain posts like a couple she made here as scum and I have extensive meta on her. You’re not getting it. She didn’t believe your claim, because of her role. How is that still going over your head?

Both of you are wrongly tunnelled and do I have to remind you of DnD mafia again? I’m am not the only one telling you she’s town.

[T-Bone]

I was the tipping point on Mastina's wagon. It's the single most important vote and of course Mastina would try to appeal to me. It's also NAI

[T-Bone]

You're the only one who has articulated a reason I believe, for what it's worth Nancy. Everyone else who says she is town is hiding behind you imo

[T-Bone]

And as you know meta doesn't move me. I need Mastina to show me, and if she's town she will, and if she's scum she won't. I don't think it's worth it to keep going in circles.

[MathBlade]

You're the only one who has articulated a reason I believe, for what it's worth Nancy. Everyone else who says she is town is hiding behind you imo

Technically Yume said the busywork page.
I don’t think Nancy gave one here either. The post she just gave is “trust me bro” and “remember when you didn’t”.
You don’t remember her making points as scum? She’s made cases before as scum.

[MathBlade]

And as you know meta doesn't move me. I need Mastina to show me, and if she's town she will, and if she's scum she won't. I don't think it's worth it to keep going in circles.

This.

I have been trying this for pages and get the same damn people saying “but trust me”.

I legit don’t know how to stop this without outright ignoring people which is rude.

[T-Bone]

You're the only one who has articulated a reason I believe, for what it's worth Nancy. Everyone else who says she is town is hiding behind you imo

Technically Yume said the busywork page.
I don’t think Nancy gave one here either. The post she just gave is “trust me bro” and “remember when you didn’t”.
You don’t remember her making points as scum? She’s made cases before as scum.

Tbh I think Yume posting that wiki page is comedy and I don't take it seriously.

I've learned to take Nancy seriously and I believe she believes her read is accurate, and her slot has towned it up.

[T-Bone]

But like can you articulate why anyone else is reading Mastina as town? I know there are players who say they do, but I don't know why.