Warrior Cats Mafia [Day Three]

[PenguinPower]

VOTE: mastina

[NorwegianboyEE]

VOTE: Mastina

[Mistyx]

what’s vc

[T3]

Val thought I was the weakest slot in the hood

I don't recall saying this...

I misremembered I think

[catboi]

I have a headache but I'll get back to this game later today.

[Frozen Angel]

I am both here and not here. I know lurking was never my style but I'm forced to lurk most of the time cause of real life pressures if I wanna play mafia nowadays. I sincerely apologize for that.

so with that I gave up in reading all thread and instead will skim some players ISO to make reads. first what I think is top wagon?

I'm not that appeased to vote mastina. what I see from mastina in this game is she putting thought behind what she is writing and actually making logical infenerces, even if its filled with lots of other stuff and emotions.I actually got the impression that she is evaluating stuff and not just throwing totally random stuff out there. mastina pushing for linked reads on ali and norwee after her initial read list material was a bit pushy over shallow reasoning but yet I see that genuine in a weird way as she got it based on something that was actually thrown in game yet I believe a scum mastina would throw completely random reads in and call them out on meta or random crap to look like she is doing the work in chaos (that's at least my impression of her playstyle and not necessarily truth)

then she has posts like 1178 too that I absolutely resent but I'm not sure if its AI here at all as she is not trying to make it look more than what it is? (the meta read on me)

What I know is people are very different when playing this game. My impression is mastina is trying to be transparent but fails to lay out logic and ends up repeating her final impressions as solidified reads naturally and regardless of her alignment. What I feel ok about is her attempt in making reads based on events/posts/actual data in game over some random crap sent from international space station or something like that if you know what I mean.

[Frozen Angel]

Okay,
so
I'll be real here.

My meta on Mastina is basically:
Will Mastina have a meltdown?
Y: Scum.
N: Town.

They had a meltdown.

I'm fine with this. For the day.
VOTE: Mastina

Ah, I see what you're saying for plot reasons one kitty leaves the clan/is evil.
While Titus is the good rogue kitty that comes in to shore up the clan that had a loss/betrayal.
Makes sense from a plot point perspective.

...I forgot what Ydra said about this. *shrug* I'm sure someone will dig it up.

and one of the reasons I hate mastina wagon are some of votes on it

I find this vote kinda opportunistic and the reasoning bad

No action or reaction is town or scum indicative on its own. to just scumread a slot based on their emotional state after all the stuff that was said that you could try to make logical inferneces from is lazy in a way that a scum mindset waiting to jump would want

[Frozen Angel]

We of the river clan* have reached a consensus.
Vote Mastina.

*it’s the royal we.

there were no discussions in river clan about mastina.

Why would you act like its a general conscious?

[Alisae]

FA do you think Bell's read on me in 1090 comes from town?
Do you think the progression on his Norwee read in 1424 could come from scum?

These are things that make me hesitant about Bell even though if we disregard all of that I should probably have problems with him.
Going through the ISO he called me scum in his read exercise and I don't think I see anything about how it is he exactly changed from 1090 to then??

[Cephrir]

We of the river clan* have reached a consensus.
Vote Mastina.

*it’s the royal we.

there were no discussions in river clan about mastina.

Why would you act like its a general conscious?

"royal we" implies he actually just means himself but yes it was confusing

i actually didn't mind bell's mastina vote; i think he is coming at it from a meta perspective, not saying meltdowns are always scummy. i think he and norwe have had the best mastina votes as they take mastina into account. many of the other votes are just voting mastina for being mastina and maybe they'll get lucky this game.

[Frozen Angel]

and now after checking I see that this behavior repeated by bell lets go over the votes:

VOTE: datisi?

VOTE: Mistyx

*stares gently at Datisi*
I’m not sorry.

VOTE: Mastina

Oh. I’m fine killing norwe if mastina is 97.5% certain they’re scum.
VOTE: Norwe

VOTE: Datisi

*FOS Mastina*

Nevermind. It fits. Nothing to be paranoid about there.

VOTE: T3

Sure.

Okay,
so
I'll be real here.

My meta on Mastina is basically:
Will Mastina have a meltdown?
Y: Scum.
N: Town.

They had a meltdown.

I'm fine with this. For the day.
VOTE: Mastina

Ah, I see what you're saying for plot reasons one kitty leaves the clan/is evil.
While Titus is the good rogue kitty that comes in to shore up the clan that had a loss/betrayal.
Makes sense from a plot point perspective.

...I forgot what Ydra said about this. *shrug* I'm sure someone will dig it up.

Why is this guy so easily convinced of everything? even stuff his suspects say?!

The vote movement is all over the place and chaotic and most votes had no context. he votes mastina and has fos on her throughout the day without explaining much about it yet instantly jumps on norwee when mastina says she is 97% sure norwee is scum. and then responds to alisae this:

I don’t understand Alisse well, but currently. I’m neutral to lean town on them, I think.
Their engagement style conflicts with what I think scum would do. But I can’t quite articulate why.

I am going to have to ask you to move your vote that is currently on Norwee. If you trust mastina's 97.5% read on Norwee, then you should be trusting me 100% tr on Norwee as the player who is probably the best player at the table at reading him, ESPECIALLY because I have a hood with him.

I don’t trust either of you tho.

but we trust mastina because?????????

I meant, I trust neither you nor Mastina. I dn't have to trust someone to vote with them.
Infact I almost never vote with someone because I trust them.

But if mastina was hard for why would you trust what they say in first place?

and then bell moves vote and plays on other heated players here and there without asking questions to sort them

and votes T3 cause asked by alisae without any questions out of nowhere just to jump back on mastina again?

I can't follow this mindset progress from a town perspective. It seems incredibly inconsistent in development

and there are these posts:

What if I’m scum? Then technically, I’m right.

@FrozenAngel: why aren’t you scum this game?

that are pretty bold joking and is a thing town would be way less comfortable saying in general. and the questions that have 0 value in evaluation (that's just an example he asked same kind of questions multiple times)

VOTE: bell

pedit: will respond to you in next post

[Bell]

I'm semi-inclined to town read Mastina anyway because they aren't making excuses for why they aren't posting or having a breakdown even though I know it's old data and I think they got over it.
Though their reads are a tad weird. I'd get into it, but if I did then Mastina and I would get in a back and forth about Mastina.
Nobody wants that except Mastina.

See: opportunism.

[T3]

Especially because Dannflor expressed significant doubt about the wagon on you multiple times before voting you, and you even quoted a post from Dannflor in the same post that you called Alisae opportunist, so you clearly saw Dannflor’s vote and doubt about the wagon on you.

If anything, Dannflor was more opportunist than Alisae. Alisae strongly scumread you and got into a conflict with you, expressing very little doubt as to your alignment. So, Alisae’s vote on you can be explained as town voting a scumread because there are more votes on the scumread, but Dannflor’s vote can be explained as inconsistent scum voting a limbait.

I read this post and I don't know how you feel about Dann and Alisae.

I noticed KT’s post about Alisae’s opportunism, noticed Dannflor’s vote, and looked more into it and noticed Dannflor’s weird progression. I think the whole thing is a bit scummy for Dannflor and not scummy for Alisae.

[Frozen Angel]

I don't really agree with Danfloor that they need a solid scum read to approach the game as they do. Though maybe they're more subtle about it but I can think of a few instances where they felt slightly more natural as town then they've been here.
I was largely mollified once they got back and walled but it looks like Catboi actualy read through them and tried to see the motivation there.
I don't think "contribution" or "tactical posting" is exactly hitting it for me, simply because yeah we could all be supporting the game better than we inevitably end up doing. Dann was on my radar then he got off of it. It's noted though.

I think the confidence Catboi is showing is appropriate to their post about Dann, I.e., they feel that of the players available they think it's the surest bet but it's Day 1 and so it's not actually a very sure bet, so I can see where their placement is and it doesn't make a total lack of sense to me. I do think they've been a bit more clear than I'm used to, but it's not terribly clear why that is, but I tend to think their catboi is a different playstyle and I dunno if they do it purposely or I just don't understand it but I think it slightly controls for the approach.

It has occurred to me that Alisae hasn't played in a full year and their approach this game doesn't really reflect that at all, which is pretty confusing to me. They're confident they can read Norwe better than anyone else, but Norwe has been playing an additional year of mafia while they haven't. It doesn't make sense to me, but I actually don't think it's scummy. Just weird. I'm not sure how much I should be taking of their previous play from the last year, but it reminds me more of their town play if anything, given their conviction being stronger as town (up to fake claiming masons with somebody), I see what people are suspecting about informed Alisae going all in for cred, but I'm not sure that it's in character for Alisae to do that, I don't really have enough data.

Frozen Angel, I'm just genuinely confused about, they feel very cookie cutter, it's focused, there's nothing especially wrong with it, but I don't see creativity or spontaneity in it yet. This kind of read I always tend to be wrong on and a spade is simply a spade but flag waving is always a little odd to me.

@T3, hello fellow Cat. I'm a cat.

1090 was his good post from earlier actually cause its very analytical in general. his null read on your slot is really conservative here ad I don't think its alignment indicative. his take about you being confident despite being away for a year makes small sense though but the confusion about your confidence is not a confusion about your alignment and it doesn't scream as he is trying to solve your slot for it. in other words a scum could also be surprised by a town confidence on someone else's meta if they were away for a while too

His read on me is also really conservative there. small shading without referencing anything specific - keeping it low and just about feelings?

Idk that post can still be genuine and it can be genuine regardless of alignment for most part

My neutral read on Norwe is dead. Long live a town lean.

This is not explained well so I'm not sure what gave them the progression on norwee read.

If norwee was a natural read why did you vote the slot with mastina in first place?

[Frozen Angel]

I'm semi-inclined to town read Mastina anyway because they aren't making excuses for why they aren't posting or having a breakdown even though I know it's old data and I think they got over it.
Though their reads are a tad weird. I'd get into it, but if I did then Mastina and I would get in a back and forth about Mastina.
Nobody wants that except Mastina.

See: opportunism.

and 700 posts later you just decided to vote the slot cause they had an emotional melt down and not because of the wagon on the slot and possible heat there?

can you show me what is that meta read of yours based on? I mean show me previous games you based that read on

[NorwegianboyEE]

and now after checking I see that this behavior repeated by bell lets go over the votes:

VOTE: datisi?

VOTE: Mistyx

*stares gently at Datisi*
I’m not sorry.

VOTE: Mastina

Oh. I’m fine killing norwe if mastina is 97.5% certain they’re scum.
VOTE: Norwe

VOTE: Datisi

*FOS Mastina*

Nevermind. It fits. Nothing to be paranoid about there.

VOTE: T3

Sure.

Okay,
so
I'll be real here.

My meta on Mastina is basically:
Will Mastina have a meltdown?
Y: Scum.
N: Town.

They had a meltdown.

I'm fine with this. For the day.
VOTE: Mastina

Ah, I see what you're saying for plot reasons one kitty leaves the clan/is evil.
While Titus is the good rogue kitty that comes in to shore up the clan that had a loss/betrayal.
Makes sense from a plot point perspective.

...I forgot what Ydra said about this. *shrug* I'm sure someone will dig it up.

Why is this guy so easily convinced of everything? even stuff his suspects say?!

The vote movement is all over the place and chaotic and most votes had no context. he votes mastina and has fos on her throughout the day without explaining much about it yet instantly jumps on norwee when mastina says she is 97% sure norwee is scum. and then responds to alisae this:

I don’t understand Alisse well, but currently. I’m neutral to lean town on them, I think.
Their engagement style conflicts with what I think scum would do. But I can’t quite articulate why.

I am going to have to ask you to move your vote that is currently on Norwee. If you trust mastina's 97.5% read on Norwee, then you should be trusting me 100% tr on Norwee as the player who is probably the best player at the table at reading him, ESPECIALLY because I have a hood with him.

I don’t trust either of you tho.

but we trust mastina because?????????

I meant, I trust neither you nor Mastina. I dn't have to trust someone to vote with them.
Infact I almost never vote with someone because I trust them.

But if mastina was hard for why would you trust what they say in first place?

and then bell moves vote and plays on other heated players here and there without asking questions to sort them

and votes T3 cause asked by alisae without any questions out of nowhere just to jump back on mastina again?

I can't follow this mindset progress from a town perspective. It seems incredibly inconsistent in development

and there are these posts:

What if I’m scum? Then technically, I’m right.

@FrozenAngel: why aren’t you scum this game?

that are pretty bold joking and is a thing town would be way less comfortable saying in general. and the questions that have 0 value in evaluation (that's just an example he asked same kind of questions multiple times)

VOTE: bell

pedit: will respond to you in next post

I’d quote somwthing specific but mobile will only quote the entire wall.

@FA in response to "why is Bell chsnging votes so much" i don’t think this specific point is scummy. Changing votes is overall pretty townie imo because it shows a lot of re-evaluation and such. I wouldn’t clear them from being scum but i don’t think this particular point is scummy.
I did wonder if Bell could have been trying to pocket Alisae though so we had an short discussion about whether Bell is even capable of advanced tactics like that

[Bell]

I’m confused why people don’t realize at least half of my posts are sarcastic or obfuscated intentionally or jokes.

For example the royal we joke with the asterisk was a dig at Alissae for saying the wind clan was behind a T3 vote when it was just Alissae and Norwe with a half-hearted Titus barely involved.

It’s not funny when I have to explain it.
I clearly have a thought process and I get that like 4 people have called me weird or confusing. But that’s not scummy and it’s relatively normal for me to be unclear or fail to specify who I’m addressing etc etc.

[NorwegianboyEE]

And then it quotes the post anyway… fuck is wrong with mobile MS…

[Bell]

That hurts
I am perfectly capable of pocketing someone for about a half hour.

[Frozen Angel]

even though you can't possibly make a meta read based on emotional meltdown in general. we all are humans. unless if you're saying mastina will never genuinely have a meltdown and is always faking it which is a pretty weird take that makes absolutely no sense

[Frozen Angel]

@FA in response to "why is Bell chsnging votes so much" i don’t think this specific point is scummy. Changing votes is overall pretty townie imo because it shows a lot of re-evaluation and such. I wouldn’t clear them from being scum but i don’t think this particular point is scummy.

I didn't say why he changed votes so much.

Its about who he voted and how he did it not about his jumping like he is playing hot potato

I cant see what a town!he would achieve with the votes that he did that went completely against his beliefs at times and some feel made up in various ways?

[Bell]

That’s a trajectory fail Angel.
Attention was slightly moving away from Mastina/people were digesting the T3 thing.
I thought about it and decided that I’d seen enough from Mastina to act on it.
I could be wrong. But I telegraphed it and they tripped it anyway. There’s a reason people have meta on Mastina related to this and it’s largely because they have issues with flexibility.
Literally said it in thread and they did it anyway.

[Frozen Angel]

That’s a trajectory fail Angel.
Attention was slightly moving away from Mastina/people were digesting the T3 thing.
I thought about it and decided that I’d seen enough from Mastina to act on it.
I could be wrong. But I telegraphed it and they tripped it anyway. There’s a reason people have meta on Mastina related to this and it’s largely because they have issues with flexibility.
Literally said it in thread and they did it anyway.

But what if a scum you had more use from having a vote on mastina

Lets say mastina is town and T3 is scum

or mastina is scum and t3 is town

in first scenario you would be saving partner pushing a heated slot instead
in second scenario you would be distancing from partner while another slot is getting heated in parallel

and if both are town you just will be looked as someone trying to solve by going after the other side of the current tide?

so plenty of reasons for a scum mind set to make that move at that point

what about that reason has to do with mastina posts anyway. you voted mastina cause of her melt down and nothing new or old and nothing about her posts/logic so at that time you got no new information to make that decision suddenly based on?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Mastina having a meltdown isn't really the problem. It's that they are not changing their reads, not responding to a lot of very valid arguments that is questioning their conclusions, and then having a meltdown.
Which combined is so bleeping scummy.

[Frozen Angel]

Mastina having a meltdown isn't really the problem. It's that they are not changing their reads, not responding to a lot of very valid arguments that is questioning their conclusions, and then having a meltdown.
Which combined is so bleeping scummy.

how is being stubborn/wrong translating to being scum? whats the scum mind set behind that stance?

Why do you think the melt down was faked? and if it was genuine how is that alignment indicative?